# Gay clubs in elementary schools **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 29, 2000, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948 "2000-01-29T23:43:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2000, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/41 "2000-02-15T16:40:00Z")
Melin, my distinct impression from the little reading I’ve done on this is that you and Esprix are not saying two separate things as might be assumed from the postings to date and the contents of your posts. The two kids founding it are simply interested in creating, through it, an atmosphere of comfort and tolerance for themselves and for other kids in their situation…which will no doubt result in the goal Esprix posted. In either case, don’t you think it’s a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2000, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/42 "2000-02-15T17:23:00Z")
> [@](#): > > They aren’t supposed to be discussing “questions about their orientation.” They’re supposed to be discussing promoting respect and tolerance – that’s the representation they’ve made, anyway – not issues of sexuality or sexual behavior. It’s certainly within the scope of the club, based on what the students presented in court, to discuss issues of sexuality. How does one discuss being gay without discussing, however tangentially, sexuality? The big scare from the school board that these kids are going to be talking about **how to have gay sex** is just that, a scare tactic. The school board doesn’t want to obey the law so they’re throwing every excuse at the wall hoping something will stick. It’s pathetic, and an insult to these students. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2000, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/43 "2000-02-15T21:26:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Melin: > > They aren’t supposed to be discussing “questions about their orientation.” They’re supposed to be discussing promoting respect and tolerance – that’s the representation they’ve made, anyway – not issues of sexuality or sexual behavior. Sexual orientation does not quid pro quo equate to talking about sex - certainly someone can talk about their life as a straight person without delving into their sex life. Either way, its more about creating a place where students can feel safe about being themselves in a non-judgmental atmosphere, and very, very often it is because they do not get that kind of treatment from adults, so getting their parents’ permission would be anathema to these kids. As polycarp and Otto pointed out, we’re still talking about the same aims of the group. * * * Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/44 "2000-04-13T03:39:00Z")
hmm… exactly how many of you actually went to clubs after school? (im guessing in between the range of 1 and 2? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/45 "2000-04-13T04:31:00Z")
QUOTE. “Almost a third of gay, lesbian and bisexual teens reported they had been forced to have sexual contact against their will, compared to 9 percent of straight students.” [from the study mentioned above]. Seeing this brings questions to my mind. 1. Were they forced to have sexual contact by mebers of the same sex or members of the opposite sex? 2. How many teens responded to the question? 3. What the fu\*\* is that supposed to suggest? That being gay will get you raped? That being straight will lessen your chances of getting raped? What a load of crap! In my school days, even the appearance of being gay would get you beaten to pulp on a regular basis. I’ve heard it said that being gay is sinful. Those that say it are pretty quiet about the sins committed against gays. Anybody see ‘Boys Don’t Cry!’? Maybe Gay clubs aren’t such a bad thing. There is strength in numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/46 "2000-04-13T13:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Asmodean** : > > hmm… exactly how many of you actually went to clubs after school? (im guessing in between the range of 1 and 2? 🙂 I’m not sure what your point is, but I was an active after-school clubber. If they’d had a GSA in my school, I probably would have gone by my senior year (which is when I started figuring things out anyway, but then if there was such a group, I might have been able to put my finger on my differences earlier). Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) (or, if you prefer the Jesusfied version, [Asketh the damn Priest Guy!](http://www.askjesus.org/ask.cgi?http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/47 "2000-04-13T13:43:00Z")
[quote] Originally posted by **spooje** : > [@](#): > > Were they forced to have sexual contact by mebers of the same sex or members of the opposite sex? I would imagine either sex, but perhaps the “gay teen” part of it implies same sex. **Hansel**? You got anything more on this? Keep in mind, **spooje** , this was done by an obviously rabidly anti-gay columnist, so you can’t take what it says too seriously. > [@](#): > > What the fu\*\* is that supposed to suggest? Seems to me the implication is that being sexually molested turned them gay. > [@](#): > > I’ve heard it said that being gay is sinful. Those that say it are pretty quiet about the sins committed against gays. Gee, welcome to mainstream America. 🙂 In all seriousness, there are plenty of religious communities who actually do condemn and work to prevent anti-gay harassment and violence despite their stand on its sinfulness. Alas, I would say that it’s been my experience it’s mostly lip service - tut-tut’s at Sunday service, but that’s about it. > [@](#): > > Maybe Gay clubs aren’t such a bad thing. There is strength in numbers. Ayup. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) (or, if you prefer the Jesusfied version, [Asketh the damn Priest Guy!](http://www.askjesus.org/ask.cgi?http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2000, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/48 "2000-04-13T20:20:00Z")
> [@](#): > > put my finger on my differences :::cough::: ---
**Author:** ![sdennis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sdennis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdennis)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/49 "2014-04-23T22:35:17Z")
I was directly involved in this case. It was never about elementary schools and it was never about discussing sex. The students were in high school. They tried to start a gay straight alliance, as allowed by federal law. The school allowed all kinds of extra curricular clubs, but denied this one, in violation of the law A judge agreed with the students and compelled the schools district to allow the club. If there were non curricular clubs at the elementary school level, it is possible they could have been required to have such a club there. But that was never even considered anad few grade schools have religious and other such clubs. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/50 "2014-04-23T22:50:49Z")
This has got to be the oldest zombie thread I’ve ever seen revived. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/51 "2014-04-23T23:03:58Z")
Seriously. Some of the posts don’t even have user names attached to them any more. I don’t even know how that happens. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/52 "2014-04-24T03:47:23Z")
It’s interesting to see ol’ Maggie’s name mentioned all the way back in 2000. She’s since become (in)famous as the public face of NOM (National Organization for Marriage), which has been flailing about trying to smother the flames of marriage equality for years (although her place has been taken now by Brian Brown, who’s always struck me as protesting just a _bit_ too much, if you know what I mean…). All of which is just the long form of saying “Anything Maggie Gallagher says, prints, believes or advocates needs to be examined very carefully and probably rejected out of hand.” ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/53 "2014-04-24T03:57:49Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Seriously. Some of the posts don’t even have user names attached to them any more. I don’t even know how that happens. It only happens, I think, with posts from back in the days when the board ran UBB as its software, before the switch to vBulletin in early May, 2000. The transition had a number of little glitches of that sort. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/54 "2014-04-24T04:04:04Z")
My two cents on this zombie thread: Since even many **adults** haven’t worked out their sexual identities presuming that elementary children have or will is ludicrous. Will I don’t condone discrimination of any stripe, it seems like a gay club in grade school is. asking for the bullies to come out (no pun intended) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/55 "2014-04-24T05:00:12Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > This has got to be the oldest zombie thread I’ve ever seen revived. At this point it’s only a matter of time before a thread gets revived by someone younger than the thread in question. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/56 "2014-04-24T05:03:37Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > It only happens, I think, with posts from back in the days when the board ran UBB as its software, before the switch to vBulletin in early May, 2000. The transition had a number of little glitches of that sort. Exactly. > [@sdennis](#): > > I was directly involved in this case. It was never about elementary schools and it was never about discussing sex. The students were in high school. They tried to start a gay straight alliance, as allowed by federal law. The school allowed all kinds of extra curricular clubs, but denied this one, in violation of the law A judge agreed with the students and compelled the schools district to allow the club. If there were non curricular clubs at the elementary school level, it is possible they could have been required to have such a club there. But that was never even considered anad few grade schools have religious and other such clubs. I think this was poorly understood in 2000, when this thread was started. Today I think people have less trouble comprehending it. You can talk about sexual orientation without actually discussing sex. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/57 "2014-04-24T05:08:44Z")
High schools already have gay clubs, glee or choir for boys and volley ball or soft ball for girls. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/58 "2014-04-24T13:29:47Z")
The first graders in those gay clubs are 20 years old now. Next year, we can buy them a drink. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/59 "2014-04-24T17:44:24Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > My two cents on this zombie thread: Since even many **adults** haven’t worked out their sexual identities presuming that elementary children have or will is ludicrous. I’ve known tons and tons of gay people who knew they were gay before they were ten. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948/60 "2014-04-24T18:03:19Z")
And even if you don’t know anybody like that personally, it’s easy to find similar stories online. Some people figure out who they are and what they like pretty early in life and other people take longer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-clubs-in-elementary-schools/17948.md?page=4)