# Gay Dopers: A poll **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 22, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198 "2004-12-22T19:09:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/21 "2004-12-22T22:01:07Z")
Interesting. _Not_ saying it is going to take some work. It’s hard to change the words you use. Try to not use contractions for a whole week… they slip out. If I replace it with something else, that would be easier, I guess. I’d hate to think that I was really offending people. A wince or two I could handle. I think people would get it or understand me and brush it off. But from just the votes here so far it seems it’s way beyond that. I think **DMark** is already starting to hate me a little and I didn’t even say anything in front of him. Keep the replies coming. I’ll think about this at work tonight. > [@FilmGeek](#): > > I’ve known people who use it in the way described below, as a slang term (like when you say SHIT! and you don’t mean feces) but I’ve asked them not to use it and they all understood once they thought about it a bit. Did they stop using it completely? Or just in your presence? Simply not using it in the presence of gay friends would actually be worse (to me), than making no effort at all. If that makes sense. As it is, I say it in front of anyone. That’s pretty much why it passes my “not offensive” test. Is because I don’t feel uncomfortable saying it around anyone. Gay or not. If I made an effort to just not say it around gay friends, then that means I am being offense and bigotted behind their backs. So for me, it’s either I _am_ being offensive, or I _am not_. There’s no half way. Half way would just prove I’m being wrong by using it at all. And that’s not even addressing all the people who I don’t _know_ are gay. I think I might stop using this word. It might not sound like a big deal. But it’s actually going to be HARD for me. It would be like not saying “fuck” ever again… And it’s going to be difficult because the word is not naturally bad or offensive to me. It’s lame, childish, and ridiculous, but not offensive. Not like, Nigger. Man, it’s hard to even type that word. And I feel sick inside even when I _have_ to say it. Like if I’m ready a quote, or repeating what some asshole said. God, I really hate that word. So it’s really easy to _not_ say. But basically, I need to convince myself, or maybe get help being convinced, that it’s something I need to stop saying. Because I bet I could start a asking if “oh god”, “my god”, “god damnit”, “thank god”, “jesus christ!”, “holy shit” etc are offensive, and many people would think they were. Atheists and christians alike. Maybe for different reasons, but they would think those words or phrases are offensive or insulting. Not sure that alone would make me want to just quit saying it. I know a lot of atheists say Og because they think saying “god” is hypocritical or something. It doesn’t bother me. When I say “Thank God” it has nothing to do with giving praise or glory to a higher being. To me it’s just a idiom and I bet most people who say it are not even considering that they’re actually giving thanks to their god. (Whether they believe in god or not). I think it’s just an expression. A figure of speech that just blurps out of people. Like everything else, I think it depends on the context. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/22 "2004-12-22T22:30:00Z")
I was going to say what **matt** , **panache** , and **DMark** said, but they said it for me. **Bear** , I know you’re not immature, and you’ve never used gay in that way in front of me, but if you had I would’ve called you on it. I don’t permit my teenagers at work to say it either. There really is no way that it’s not offensive – as **matt** points out, it’s identical to “welshing on a deal”, “jewing down the price”, “nigger-rigging”, and “gypping”. All of these are said all the time, often by people who don’t even think about their origins, but they are all inappropriate. So, to sum up: never OK, response varies from for strangers to corrections for friends. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/23 "2004-12-22T22:47:47Z")
Not gay, but I teach high school, so I hear the pejoritive “gay” more often than I care to think about it (and no, I do not allow it to go unremarked), and I have a different perspective. For me, it has nothing to do with actual homosexuality, and everything to do with the way homophobia is used as a justification for truly horrendous bullying of anyone percieved to be weaker. **That** is where “gay” as an insult became popular: tough kids who used it as an excuse to do horrible things to other kids–when a school bully calls another kid gay, he’s declaring that that kid is a target. Sexual orientation issues aside, it’s a word used by assholes, a word that in their twisted minds justifies abuse. Why model them? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/24 "2004-12-22T22:49:29Z")
It’s a complex question, and there’s not just one answer that will apply to all gay people. Some gays will find it very, very offensive. Some gays won’t care at all. Most, I think, will probably think less of you, but won’t judge your entire worth as a person because of one unfortunate word choice. I’ve been self-identifying as bisexual for about a year now. I’ve only just started coming out to my friends. Most of them use “gay” to mean “lame,” but I really don’t expect any of them to freak out, or cut me out of their lives, or any shit like that, because I know they’re not bigots. So when they say it, I’m not at all offended. Hell, I use it that way myself sometimes. So does my boyfriend. On the other hand, at work, everyone uses it the same way on a daily basis, and it’s a big reason why I haven’t come out at work yet, because I don’t really know these people that well, and I don’t know if their usage reflects genuine homophobia, or just an unfortunately common idiom. Especially as I work for a video game company, and this particular slang is endemic to the video game subculture. As for comparisons to other slurs, I submit “Jew.” As in, “He wanted $200 for the stereo, but I jewed him down to $150.” (On preview, I see that should be re-submit.) Would you use this phrase around strangers? Friends? Family, even? I sure as hell wouldn’t, and I hope that someday, “gay” as a synonym for “lame” will be treated the same way. 'Course, if I were really serious about that, I’d stop using it myself… Ultimatly, though, it’s not something I’m going to stress over. There’re much, much bigger battles in the fight for equal rights than this. Really, it’s a symptom of a larger problem, not the problem itself. If we can get people to stop hating gays, then they’re going to stop using “gay” as a disparative on their own. In the long run, starting fights over this issue is a waste of time. However, since you’ve asked (and thank you for asking. The fact that you care enough about the issue to be concerned speaks volumes about your good will), I’d say don’t use it, at least not around people who don’t know you well enough to know you’re not a bigot. Because some people will interpret it very negatively, and some people will be badly hurt to hear you say it. And I don’t think you want either of those things to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Graycat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Graycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Graycat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/25 "2004-12-22T23:00:23Z")
I’m not gay, but I’m a mom, and I come down hard on my kids when I hear that usage. **Manda JO** , I haven’t thought of it the way you put it, just that it is rude, but I think I will try to explain it as you do, particularly to my 12 year old, who’s been a target for bullies all his life, but still thinks it’s cool to talk like them. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![amphibian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@amphibian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amphibian)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/26 "2004-12-23T00:13:29Z")
To be honest I think it sounds childlike, and rather ridiculous - haven’t you moved beyond the age of 13? - more then anything else. But it does piss me off sometimes, thinking about it, it would be a lot more to some kid who actually was 13 and thought he/she might be gay. It reminds me of Ed in Shaun of the Dead, which really confirms the whole haven’t-you-grown-up-yet type of response I’d get to someone saying “_gay_” as he does. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/27 "2004-12-23T00:56:11Z")
> [@](#): > > If this phrase came from a person whom you speak to often and you already know he’s intelligent, mature and not homophobic or hateful towards gays, how would that effect you? I could see where you’d wince. But would you call him on it? Would you tell him that it bothers you and you don’t like it? Would you just shrug it? Would it be a big deal? > I’m talking about a guy who you know has no problem dancing with a guy, chilling at a gay bar or flirting with gay men. Do you think you’d say something to him? Does it offend you that much? I wouldn’t be _offended_, per se, because it takes a lot to offend me, nor would I say anything about it. Mostly, I’d be embarassed for the person who said it. A little more than I’d be embarassed for someone who still called things “rad.” Something that Miller said made me think: > [@](#): > > Especially as I work for a video game company, and this particular slang is endemic to the video game subculture. I think it’s a feature not only of video game subculture, but of geek culture in general. For whatever reason, these little enclaves of geekdom tend to be home to some very vocal homophobes and even more people who use words like “gay” and “fag” and think they’re just being used as generic put-downs. No idea why. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/28 "2004-12-23T01:01:54Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Crap. Yeah, I do that too. Gay and Retarded seem to be interchangable. I know people get bent out of shape about popular use of “retarded”, but I think they have less of a case than people offended by “gay”. And I don’t normally associate with people who are _that_ sensitive, nor would I care to appease them. I’m bisexual and my younger sister has cerebral palsy with all the mental and physical defects that come with it. Do I have a case to get offended by them? I think I do and it does bother me. A lot. Not enough to stare you down or tell you to watch your language but enough to avoid being around you. It’s hurtful language whether you realize it or not and the only time I feel it is acceptable is amongst friends when you and they both know that there is no spite in your words or if you’re gay or handicapped yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/29 "2004-12-23T01:22:55Z")
I’m not homosexual, but I am “gay” since I’m responding to a thread which only wants actual gays to respond, so I can respond since responding when you’re not wanted is so gay 😉 I’m sort of offended by it myself a little, since if the user of it doesn’t know my sexuality, I take it as a subtle warning that if they were to think of me as homosexual, they would think less of me. But mainly, I’m confused by it. Mostly when I hear someone use the term, I have to think whether they mean “gay” as in actually homosexual, “gay” as in flaming, or “gay” as in lame. The first two are what immediately pop into mind (how can a computer program about war be swishy 😕😕😕 …ohhh, you meant _lame_…) ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/30 "2004-12-23T01:30:43Z")
First to **matt\_mcl**. Are you sure the usage of “queer” mentioned by the OP really goes back to the entymological root of the word? To me it doesn’t read as queer, odd, strange (the root) but queer as bad, messed up, screwy. > [@shy guy](#): > > I think it’s a feature not only of video game subculture, but of geek culture in general. For whatever reason, these little enclaves of geekdom tend to be home to some very vocal homophobes and even more people who use words like “gay” and “fag” and think they’re just being used as generic put-downs. No idea why. If I might venture an opinion, it would be because a lot of these same nerds are or often have been picked on for being perceived as gay. No one hits harder than someone backlashing. On the flipside, quite a few of the incredibly accepting people I’ve ever met have been nerds of one stripe or another. Why? Because they got landed with the same perceptions and, instead of getting upset, accepted being gay as no bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/31 "2004-12-23T01:48:34Z")
**Bambi Hassenpfeffer** is gay? No idea. Damn me for not reading many threads. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/32 "2004-12-23T01:55:46Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Hmmm how to explain this… > > Is the word “ **CPL Nenno** ” offensive? I don’t mean like “He’s **CPL Nenno** ” or “Mondays are **CPL Nenno** Night at Club Fun” or “bla bla bla **CPL Nenno** Community bla bla…” or something like that. > > I mean the use of the word “ **CPL Nenno** ” as an all purpose, unrelated (unrelated to anything homosexual, I mean), free flowing expletive to describe something… > > Like, “Goddamn, this is so **CPL Nenno** ” > or “Don’t do that. That’s so **CPL Nenno** ” > … man examples are hard to find. > > But the thing is, I will use the word **CPL Nenno** for almost anything. And it’s in no way comparing something to a person who is gay, or to something a gay person would like or would do. Crap this question is harder to articulate than I thought. > > I can’t be the only person who talks like this. I will call something “ **CPL Nenno** ” for the same reasons that I would call something “weak”. Like, “This is so weak”. It’s interchangable to me. But I use **CPL Nenno** more often. > > Does anyone have any clue to what I’m describing? I use the word all the time without even thinking about it. Kinda like throwing in random “fucks” and “fuckings”. If something is insufficient, inefficient, uncooperative, annoying, wrong, not working, etc, I would just call it “ **CPL Nenno** ”. > I’d say something like, “Our policy is so **CPL Nenno**. This doesn’t even make sense. Instead, why don’t we…” > > Or if a party was dead, or a bar was empty and we weren’t having any fun at an event or something. I’d say “Man this is **CPL Nenno** , let’s go” If I thought a movie was ‘cheesy’ or stupid, I’d call it **CPL Nenno**. > > Anyway, if more clarification is needed, I’ll try. But basically that’s what I’m describing. So if we were talking and you heard me use “ **CPL Nenno** ” in this manner, would you find it offensive? Does the word itself matter? Even if it’s used in an unrelated way and it’s obvious from the sentence that it’s not an insult or a comparison to a gay person. Or would it come off to you as a personal insult no matter what. > > I think this is a good example: > Say you, me and a mutual friend were sitting down talking about some concert or something. And the conversation goes a little like this: > > Friend: Wow. That sounds like a lot of fun. Where’s this place at? > Me: Downtown by the river, next to the college. > Friend: Oh, I have no idea how to get there. > You: It’s easy. Just take the interstate to 4th street. Take a left on 8th ave, then go around the park. And you’ll see it on your right. > Me: No, that’s **CPL Nenno**. That would take forever with traffic. Use the expressway and then get off right at the park. It’s much faster. > > Now would _that_ stand out to you? Would you notice? Would it offend you? Does the context the word is used in matter at all, or is it just outright offensive to you for me to use that word in that manner. > Or does it not fucking matter one way or the other? Like no big deal? Now imagine all your buddies are saying it. All your squad mates. Your squad leader. Your platoon SGT, your 1SG, your commander. In fact, your entire unit says it, all the time for anything that is stupid, weak or ugly. How’s your self esteem doing? ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/33 "2004-12-23T04:17:31Z")
> [@chaoticdonkey](#): > > **Bambi Hassenpfeffer** is gay? No idea. Damn me for not reading many threads. Queer as a $3 bill, dear. Friend of both Dorothy and Blanche, big bear bitch extraordinaire, family member in the life, owner of a San Francisco accent, and all-around faggot. Pleased to meet you. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/34 "2004-12-23T05:16:31Z")
Like the user name didn’t give it away. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Survivor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/51bf81/32.png) [@Survivor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Survivor)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/35 "2004-12-23T05:21:27Z")
Pisses me off like no tomorrow… I call people on it all the time… It’s offensive to me as a Gay man… and I don’t accept their lame excuses… ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/36 "2004-12-23T07:00:14Z")
It is a word that can hurt and as I try to be a gentle man, I am careful when I use it. On the other hand, it does sort of bother me that the word had been claimed by one group. Talking about the Gay Gordons (Regiment) sounds silly, although the Black Watch (for some reason) does not. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/37 "2004-12-23T08:16:50Z")
Oooh! A poll! Can’t pass that up. Personally, I’ve got a pretty solidly hypocritical attitude towards the use of “gay” as a pejorative. It doesn’t really bother me at all when friends use it, because I already know what they mean or else they wouldn’t be my friends. And (as has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread), I use it myself sometimes. I realize I shouldn’t, but I still do, and need to keep in mind to stop. It’s one of those things I started saying ironically or in an attempt to put other people at ease when I was coming out – if people were complaining about the dancing-on-the-bed scene at the end of _Return of the King_, for example, but wouldn’t come right out and say what bothered them about it, I’d just spit it out, “Yeah, that was so gay.” And I have already been called on it a few times, by straight people saying, “Dude, show a little tolerance.” (Including one I should have learned from: I responded with, “Oh, I thought you knew. I’m gay.” And he said, “Yeah, I knew. Doesn’t matter, it’s still not cool to say that.”) And the really hypocritical part: it bugs me more when it’s used as a general-purpose pejorative instead of really referring to stereotypical images of homosexuality. Saying “it doesn’t have anything to do with homosexuality anymore” actually makes it _worse_. When somebody uses the word “gay” to be dismissive of something that’s comically flaming or over-the-top like, for example, starting a thread with “Oooh!”, it doesn’t bother me. But when it’s used in the general “gay == bad” sense, like the “those directions are gay” example from the OP, that bugs me. Not enough to really change my opinion of the person, or even for me to make an issue of it, but enough for me to think, “What the hell was that all about?” And as already mentioned, it _always_ sounds very juvenile, even when not outright offensive. > [@Priam](#): > > If I might venture an opinion, it would be because a lot of these same nerds are or often have been picked on for being perceived as gay. No one hits harder than someone backlashing. On the flipside, quite a few of the incredibly accepting people I’ve ever met have been nerds of one stripe or another. Why? Because they got landed with the same perceptions and, instead of getting upset, accepted being gay as no bad thing. Got it in one. When your dating history with women runs mostly towards the fictional, you start to get a lot of questions (both from yourself and the outside) about whether you’re not with the ladies because you want to be with the boys. So the response is “Hell no, I’m not gay! I’m just not dating because of my obsessive devotion to time-consuming solitary hobbies and my general lack of social skills.” Which sounds better in your head, I’m sure. Actually, I’ve got more sympathy than that sounds. I just wish I could tell these kids that it doesn’t have to be so difficult. There’s a gradual process of working out degrees, of course. But basically you already _know_ on some level which way(s) you swing. It’s just a matter of figuring out what you’re going to do about it. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and thinks about other ducks while masturbating, it’s probably a duck. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/38 "2004-12-23T08:24:22Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and thinks about other ducks while masturbating, it’s probably a duck. Unless it’s a drake? ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/39 "2004-12-23T08:30:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Now would that stand out to you? Would you notice? Would it offend you? Does the context the word is used in matter at all, or is it just outright offensive to you for me to use that word in that manner. Yes, yes and hell yes. Re: context, here’s my thinking: When you say gay as in “Is Elton John gay?” that’s fine (unless the inflection is akin to “is he out of his mind?”). When you say “That teacher is so gay; I can’t believe I got a C on that paper.” … well, you can probably guess. ---
**Author:** ![IKinSpelGud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/46a35a/32.png) [@IKinSpelGud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IKinSpelGud)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198/40 "2004-12-23T10:45:08Z")
So, then, how about “lame?” If I say to my friend, “Sorry man, but your band is ridculously lame,” would anyone (crippled or not) be offended by that usage? And now that I think of it, is “crippled,” an offensive term? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-a-poll/281198.md?page=3)