# Gay Dopers, if you could take a pill and be straight. . . **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366 "2004-11-06T18:05:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![supervenusfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@supervenusfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supervenusfreak)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/21 "2004-11-07T03:00:13Z")
This questioner assumes that most of us are Kinsey sixes ie. totally gay. Most gay men that I know have had sex with women, in one form or another. Besides , I think that this would change something innate within ourselves that makes us unique. We should define ourselves, not by a label, but by the journey we have taken in our lives. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/22 "2004-11-07T03:16:04Z")
> [@Ice Cream Conquest](#): > > would you? > > Suppose scientists identified the factors that caused homosexuality and came up with a pill that would immediately change you heterosexual? > > And since this is strictly a hypothetical question, there are no side effects, it’s 100% effective and free. Though I’m straight myself, I can’t imagine that many gay dopers older than early puberty would answer yes to this question. Adults grow up to cope with their differences, then they become partly defined by them, and relearning how to **be** becomes unimaginable. If someone offered me a pill that would make me right-handed, I’d decline, even though life is easier and safer for right-handed people given that it’s the default assumption made by everyone including all manufacturers and everything is made to accommodate them except for a handful of specialty products that are hard to come by and cost several times as much as the common as dirt equivalents. Starting over this late in life (and I’m only in my late 20s) would be completely unthinkable. I’ve _adapted_ to being the odd woman out, and if I were to change now I’d have to learn how to do hundreds of simple tasks all over again, like a small child would. For a gay doper, I’m sure there would be similar ajustments to a change of orientation, though theirs would be more relearning thought processes rather than actions (well, besides sex). The only way I can see someone wanting to make that major a change would be when they’re very young and not set in their ways… but I don’t think kids would understand the gravity of the action either. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/23 "2004-11-07T05:27:36Z")
> [@TeaElle](#): > > As a bisexual, I also wouldn’t take it if it eliminated one aspect of my sexuality. I would, if it were reversible. I’ve never really been able to wrap my mind around the concept of seeing some incredibly attractive person, and not being attracted to them because they’re the wrong gender. To me, it seems like the equivalent of refusing to date someone because they’ve got the wrong hair color. It’d be interesting to take a pill that made me completely straight (or completely gay) just to see what that’s like. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/24 "2004-11-07T05:58:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I would, if it were reversible. I’ve never really been able to wrap my mind around the concept of seeing some incredibly attractive person, and not being attracted to them because they’re the wrong gender. It doesn’t seem right to me either, yet that’s the way I am. If the pill were to turn you bi instantaneous, I’d take it in a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/25 "2004-11-07T06:52:51Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I would take a pill that would make me completely bisexual any day. Where can I find these? Not sure about the pills, but the elixir can be found in pretty much any bar or liquor store. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/26 "2004-11-07T09:47:45Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Not sure about the pills, but the elixir can be found in pretty much any bar or liquor store. If only! For some of us, it only creates a situation where the mind is willing, but the flesh is weak. And, err, TMI warning coming up – flaccid. (Sorry, ladies.) ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/27 "2004-11-07T11:36:55Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > If only! For some of us, it only creates a situation where the mind is willing, but the flesh is weak. And, err, TMI warning coming up – flaccid. > > (Sorry, ladies.) Better a flaccid gay man who got big ideas after a night in the drink than a flaccid straight man who hasn’t got an underlying excuse! ---
**Author:** ![Kegg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Kegg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kegg)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/28 "2004-11-07T12:50:53Z")
BuTTONJOCKY309 - I thought elixir was watter based, and tincture was alchol based?? Am I wrong??? * * * Spelling and grammer subject to change with out notice. ---
**Author:** ![sj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@sj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sj2)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/29 "2004-11-07T18:40:07Z")
> [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > **sj2** , was this directed at me? > > Because, although I loathe the idea of parents designing their children according to their own prejudices, I can certainly understand wanting to protect your child from pain. And I have known no homosexual person who had a pain-free coming out. > > Not that it would make a de-gaying procedure any less repulsive, only slightly more understandable. Not directly at you…but feel free to join in my list. I know from my teen experience…straight, white, rich and prom queen…and hearing from many, many other former teens and even some real-life teens themselves–it sucks all the way around. The OPer is on my list–but with a join date so recent, I wonder just how long…whatever. :smack: I’ll save my rant since this is not the pit. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/30 "2004-11-07T19:01:33Z")
I can’t answer the OP since I’m not gay. However, I have a David Letterman-esque gap between my two front teeth. I remember David Letterman talking about how at one point early in his career, some agent or network exec or someone said to him, “You’ll need to get your front teeth fixed, you know.” Letterman replied, “I didn’t know that there was anything _wrong_ with my teeth.” I would guess it would be the same thing with this too. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/31 "2004-11-08T04:21:42Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > However, I have a David Letterman-esque gap between my two front teeth. I remember David Letterman talking about how at one point early in his career, some agent or network exec or someone said to him, “You’ll need to get your front teeth fixed, you know.” Letterman replied, “I didn’t know that there was anything _wrong_ with my teeth.”. I remember him making a joke about his “English teeth” - years ago now. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/32 "2004-11-08T05:04:06Z")
I’m bi and quite happy with my sexuality, thanks. I don’t see a reason in the world to change one way or the other. I’m happily living both ways. The basic premise of this op is, “are you gay and not want to be gay”… which is unfortunately an all too common thing. A lot of people spend a lot of time struggling with their sexual identity, sometimes until it is too late. These are the people who won’t admit to it to themselves or to anyone else, and who frequently embark on crusades against it in an effort to convince themselves they are something they are not. I believe that, like in most cases, a few nice, liberal, open-minded years at university are good for sorting these things out. But really, it is just hard for some people to admit to themselves that they are the way they are. Or they consider it a disease instead of a state of nature and want it cured, as in your pill. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/33 "2004-11-08T05:21:51Z")
No way. Girls are squishy and they smell good. I like girls and I like liking girls. It’s kind of nice to be “different”, sometimes, too. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/34 "2004-11-08T06:03:28Z")
I feel like this question is as thorny and disturbing as asking, “Black Dopers, if you could take a pill and be white…” The answer to both is, if society weren’t deeply sick in some way, no such pill should ever be necessary. The only pill for homosexuality that should exist is [this one.](http://www.commercialcloset.org/cgi-bin/iowa/portrayals.html?record=676) ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Cream\_Conquest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@Ice\_Cream\_Conquest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Cream_Conquest)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/35 "2004-11-08T06:36:38Z")
Thanks to all of you who responded so far. The results are basically what I expected. The reason for asking was this: I’ve lurked on this board for a while and in discussions here (and other places) people have talked about whether being homosexual was a choice or not. I’ve frequently seen the argument made: Of course homosexuality isn’t a choice. Why would anyone choose a lifestyle that made them hated and ridiculed? But according to the responses here, there are a lot of people that if given an alternative would still choose to be gay. So, I’m not trying to say that this thread resolves whether or not homosexuality is a choice or not, but I do think it pretty well refutes the **argument** that no one would choose to be gay, therefore it can’t be a choice. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/36 "2004-11-08T06:44:59Z")
Well, now . . . I have a gap between my teeth. That’s how I am. Those are my teeth. It’s too late to have different teeth, because they wouldn’t be _my_ teeth. However, I didn’t _choose_ these teeth. But now that I’ve got them, they’re part of my identity. I didn’t choose my body type or facial features, and trust me, they aren’t that great. However, they are part of my identity. I’d like to _improve_ them (lose weight, etc.) but I wouldn’t want to change them. Because then I’d no longer be me. It’s too late for me to no longer be me. If you can follow that . . . ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/37 "2004-11-08T06:50:53Z")
> [@Ice Cream Conquest](#): > > Why would anyone choose a lifestyle that made them hated and ridiculed? But this thread has demonstrated that not every gay person is hated or reviled, or given a particularly hard time on account of their sexuality. A friend and colleague of mine came out a few years ago, after I had already known him for four or five years. I was quite surprised since I never had an inkling, and we remained friends until he returned to his native New Zealand. A few months after coming out, which he did at a lunch with a few of us his closest collegaues, he reflected that he wish he had done it earlier because he felt it had enhanced his relationships with people. I think a great deal depends on the individual situation. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Cream\_Conquest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@Ice\_Cream\_Conquest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Cream_Conquest)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/38 "2004-11-08T07:14:16Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > > [@Ice Cream Conquest](#): > > > > Why would anyone choose a lifestyle that made them hated and ridiculed? > > But this thread has demonstrated that not every gay person is hated or reviled, or given a particularly hard time on account of their sexuality. To be fair, **I** didn’t say "Why would anyone choose a lifestyle that made them hated and ridiculed. I said, “I’ve frequently seen the argument made: Of course homosexuality isn’t a choice. Why would anyone choose a lifestyle that made them hated and ridiculed?” This argument is made by people who are using it to argue that homosexuality is not a choice. You’re obviously correct in saying that not every gay person is hated or reviled. Therefore the argument that no one would choose to be gay because of people’s reactions towards them falls flat. And just to make it absolutely clear. I’m not saying or implying that the conclusion “homosexuality is not a choice” is wrong. I’m just saying that this argument that no one would choose to be gay doesn’t hold water. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/39 "2004-11-08T07:16:39Z")
> [@kegg](#): > > BUTTONJOCKEY308 - I thought elixir was water based, and tincture was alcohol based?? Am I wrong??? You’re kind of right… Both elixirs AND tinctures contain alcohol, but elixirs also contain water, whereas tinctures don’t, necessarily, though you can make non-alcoholic tinctures, if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366/40 "2004-11-08T07:29:07Z")
> [@Ice Cream Conquest](#): > > I’m just saying that this argument that no one would choose to be gay doesn’t hold water. I don’t think it’s that simple. Sure, I guess some gay people would choose to be gay. Can’t speak for them. However, I’m thinking that many of them wouldn’t change _now_ because they’ve been gay their whole life and it’s part of them. Part of their identity. Too late to change now. It would turn their world upside down. Just like many straight people wouldn’t want to be gay, not because there’s anything wrong with it, but because being gay would change part of their identity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-dopers-if-you-could-take-a-pill-and-be-straight/273366.md?page=3)