# Gay Fetus Intervention **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 21, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-fetus-intervention/486886 "2009-02-21T20:18:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-fetus-intervention/486886/101 "2009-02-24T20:17:42Z")
It’s saying “Remember all those beautiful moments of joy and love you shared with people of your gender? It grosses me out, so I’d rather they never, ever happened again for anyone. For their own good, you understand.” ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-fetus-intervention/486886/102 "2009-02-24T21:04:05Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m hesitant to say that the harm is the same in the gay fetus situation, because I’m leery about ascribing anything approaching civil rights to a _potential_ human. But just as far as the situation prevents the future child from being who they are, I find the hypothetical in the OP to be chilling. I imagine it’s kind of like being a Jew listening to the Wanssee Conference…not identical in intent (I don’t really think ANYONE advocating in this thread is doing so in order to eliminate homosexuals or because of hatred of homosexuals), but identical in effect…it’s like listening to someone plot the extinction of your people. I was looking at this more from one individual and their child, but I can see where you’re coming from more clearly looking at it from the view of everyone getting on the bandwagon and this procedure becoming standard. > [@](#): > > It’s saying “Remember all those beautiful moments of joy and love you shared with people of your gender? It grosses me out, so I’d rather they never, ever happened again for anyone. For their own good, you understand.” Or it’s saying (extreme examples ahead) “I’m scared you’ll be the next Matthew Shepard.” Or, to take the race angle again, “we’re going to pretend to be Italian because I’m scared you could be the next Emmit Till” or James Byrd for a more recent crime. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-fetus-intervention/486886/103 "2009-02-24T21:10:54Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Speaking as a gay who fully intends to procreate at some point, homosexuality doesn’t have to be a dead end when it comes to lineage continuation (and conversely the rising trend of childless straight couples shows that heterosexuality doesn’t guarantee it either). A bit off topic, but I’ve heard several anti-gay activists try to use this as an excuse why homosexuality can’t be genetic and it always boggles my mind. In addition to the many other things wrong with it, are they truly so clueless that they don’t realize homosexual men and homosexual women have been producing children since the dawn of humans and that we are all descendants of probably many ancestors who were predominantly homosexual in their orientation and if they lived today would no doubt identify as gay? Hell, the children borne to right wing Fundies caught in gay scandals could alone populate a good sized private academy, and the genes of Oscar Wilde/Eleanor Roosevelt/Edward II/Vita Sackville-West/etc. all seem to be doing quite well. I love the notion though of Fundies who willingly were implanted with snowflake babies having to decide whether to leave the gay fetus on the counter overnight or have it implanted. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-fetus-intervention/486886/104 "2009-02-25T00:33:02Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Agreed that that is human nature. But consider what you’d be asking your child to do…actually, not even asking, but basically forcing. You’re forcing this child who isn’t even born yet to be someone other than the person they would be naturally, all in the name of making things easier for him/her. You’re basically exchanging the child you would have had for a different child, before you even know who the former really is. > > Frankly, if I, as I am now, were to find some sort of portal to an alternate universe, where my mother’s doctor discovered I was going to be gay and suggested that she have the procedure we’re talking about here, and I met my straight alternate in his nice house with his nice family…I think I’d be creeped out. There is SO MUCH of my personality that comes from having lived with my sexual orientation that would be completely lost from a straight me, that just the thought of having grown up without that, even with the kind of things I went through because of being gay, and not having that now, horrifies me. I wouldn’t be me, in any but the purely physical aspects. To be perfectly fair, you wouldn’t miss what you never had I don’t have a billion dollars, nor have I ever won the lottery. Yet I’m not broken up about it everyday for not having such luxuries. However, if I had a billion dollars or if I lost a winning lottery ticket, I would be completely crushed. To say that someone will miss what they never had, I think, is a very speculative and bad point. You can’t miss it, you can only think how you would feel had you been in that situation. From your point of view now, since you already know how your life is turning out, you are essentially not asking us to miss who you never were, but imagine yourself as someone else instead. That, to me, is where the argument goes south Before a child is born, they are pretty much all the same. They’re about the same size, look the same, and act the same. You can’t form a specific bond to that thing as well as a defined baby a month old or a year old. Maybe people who are very sentimental can, but I do not think the majority of people will be any worse off than slightly forlorn. Changing a baby’s sexual orientation would fall under that. You can imagine all you want about being gay or straight, but your empathy hinges only on the strength of your imagination. Its not real ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-fetus-intervention/486886/105 "2009-02-25T02:18:23Z")
It’s not just the absence of the unknown. It reduces the sum total possible of loving relationships in the world. Why do that for the sake of bigots? ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-fetus-intervention/486886/106 "2009-02-25T02:58:20Z")
> [@rivulus](#): > > What on earth makes you assume that procreation would be of paramount importance to your son? Theres no possible way of knowing if procreation will be important to him or not, so the most logical solution is to fix it so its easiest for him, and let him decide. > [@](#): > > That’s an awfully big assumption, considering you’re willing to mess with a significant aspect of his personality. Poor kid isn’t even born yet. How do you know what he wants? The kid doesn’t have a personality yet though, just a potential for one. So yes.. I am indeed willing to mess with his potential. Nature sucks. > [@](#): > > OK, so adoption or finding a surrogate is stressful. I have news for you. Life is stressful. Raising kids is stressful, not to mention expensive. Sorry, but you can’t redesign someone to eliminate the stress of life. You can redesign them to reduce it though. Nobody thinks much of glasses, yet I still remember the trauma of getting them when i was 7. Being able to see was great, but the ridicule from the little monsters I went to school with.. No, I’d fix it, and my kid wouldn’t have that going on, at least. They of course may find something else, but you can’t make things perfect. You can just give them the best hand you can and hope for the best. > [@](#): > > What a bunch of narrow minded bullshit. Just because you view something as detrimental, does not make it so. Some deaf people want to select for deafness. Would you let them? I certainly would not. > [@](#): > > Did it ever occur to you that being gay might be rewarding, not only for the gay individuals but also for families and communities? Gay people have a tough time because we live in a society that is narrow minded. Despite those social pressures (which includes the pressure to have children, by the way) it can be deeply fulfilling to live life as a gay person. It can be deeply fulfilling to experience relationships and ways of interacting with the world by sharing it with gay people. I know my life is richer because of my circle of gay friends and the refreshing ways they look at things. Of course one can have a rewarding life gay. I’ve never tried to say otherwise. But you can have a rewarding life straight as well, and have deeply fulfilling relationships with straight people. I know my life is richer because of my circle of silly redneck friends and the refreshing way they look at things(They think I’m extremely liberal. 😃 ). > [@](#): > > Yes, life is unconventional when you are gay. I’m a lesbian. Personally, I’m not just making do with my unfortunate lot in life. On the contrary. My life is much richer and more vibrant after coming out as a lesbian than it was before. Life is not just about having the perfect family of two heterosexual parents, two kids, and a pet. Life is not just about coasting along in the mainstream of society. Variety makes life interesting. If my child wants to live an unconventional life, then thats great(well.. depends on how unconventional. 🙂 ), however, I’m not going to force that on him if I can help it at all. This is like the old arguement about beauty.. If everyone were beautiful, it wouldn’t mean anything. That may be true, but who’s going to tell their kid that they need to take one for the team? I’m not that altruistic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-fetus-intervention/486886.md?page=5)