# Gay guys: tops and bottoms and related matters
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-guys-tops-and-bottoms-and-related-matters/301415
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [April 27, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-guys-tops-and-bottoms-and-related-matters/301415 "2005-04-27T19:02:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2005, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-guys-tops-and-bottoms-and-related-matters/301415/21 "2005-04-28T13:19:46Z")
> [@WhyNot](#):
>
> But with all the men I’ve slept with (IANAGM, I am a hetero (mostly) woman), there’s been a great deal of flexibility - sometimes I’m on top, sometimes he is. Sometimes I’m more active and dominant, sometimes he is. I’d never qualify for myself in a personal ad that I’d only have sex on top.
Exactly. You never see straight people saying “I’ll give you oral sex, but no way are you giving it to me” in their personal ads.
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2005, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-guys-tops-and-bottoms-and-related-matters/301415/22 "2005-04-28T13:59:23Z")
> [@Nordic](#):
>
> … and isn’t having an orgasm the entire _point_ of sex? I can see pleasing your partner in order to get your “turn,” but no pleasure for yourself at all?
Ummmm… is it? I (hetero) don’t see it that way; is the entire point of giving birthday presents that you’ll _get_ presents in return? OK, I’m sure it is for some people, but it is entirely possible to take pleasure in simply _giving_.
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### Author:  [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-guys-tops-and-bottoms-and-related-matters/301415/23 "2005-04-28T14:58:34Z")
Geez… reading this thread just makes it quite clear how hetero straight guys like myself have been conditioned to being selfish and overly concerned with penetration. I would never ever think that the favorite position would be “bottom”.
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### Author:  [@supervenusfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supervenusfreak)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-guys-tops-and-bottoms-and-related-matters/301415/24 "2005-04-28T15:58:25Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#):
>
> Really, it’s different for everyone. Myself, as stated, I do long to get fucked, but the painfulness gets in the way of that. I love anything that’s similar to getting fucked, such as – oy, there needs to be some word for this and I can’t remember what it is, but basically he rubs it against me as though he were fucking me. I’m moving as though I’m getting fucked, and we get really into it. So yes, it’s not just the laziness factor… although that can apply some nights 😉
That would be [frottage](http://en.mimi.hu/sexuality/frottage.html) . I happen to agree with alot of what you say. It all depends on the man (or men) and the mood. Alot of straight guys assume that gay men love anal sex, either giving or receiving. I do like an enthusiastic bottom every now and then, but would much rather have a good sex partner period, either bottom or top.
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-guys-tops-and-bottoms-and-related-matters/301415/25 "2005-04-28T16:15:20Z")
> [@ouryL](#):
>
> I know two young couples who are so aidsaphobic that they only have oral!!
Yes, but don’t assume that all people who “only have oral” do so out of fear. Some of us actually prefer it.
Regarding the anal top/bottom thing: I’ve known a huge number of gay men over the years, and by far the majority of them are “versatile, leaning toward bottom.” Guys just wanna have fun, and most are happy interacting with another guy, wherever that may lead.
But I don’t (necessarily) equate top/bottom with dominant/submissive. The guys I’ve known who identify as bottoms are rarely submissive people, in the way that that terms is generally used. In fact, there are quite a few “pushy bottoms” out there (“You \*\*will \*\*fuck me, dammit!”) And a top isn’t necessarily acting out of dominance or aggression. He’s simply doing what gives him and his partner pleasure.
And it’s definitely \*\*not \*\*just about orgasm. My Guy is very, very good at what he does, and he can keep me on the verge of orgasm all night. (Yes, I have to cum eventually, or I’d never be able to walk.)
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-guys-tops-and-bottoms-and-related-matters/301415/26 "2005-04-28T16:17:44Z")
> [@Priceguy](#):
>
> No way is anyone shoving anything up my ass; that hurts!
>
> …
>
> While we’re on the subject, what’s with this “tops and bottoms” business anyway? How come it’s so divided and compartmentalized?
Asked and answered. Well, answered and asked, but you get the idea.
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### Author:  [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-guys-tops-and-bottoms-and-related-matters/301415/27 "2005-04-28T17:42:57Z")
> [@Nordic](#):
>
> I never did understand what bottoms get out of it anyway; it does hurt…
If you can do it in such a way that it doesn’t hurt, it can be very pleasurable for the bottom, on a physical level: your anus contains similar types of nerve endings as the penis (which is why rimming is pleasurable too), and there’s also the prostate involved.
I’m sure for many (but certainly not all – I would doubt if even most) guys there must also be a psychological element of submission – that’s certainly the case for me, which is part of what makes the frottage (thanks!) thing mentioned above so hot. Naturally, I mean “submission” here in the sexual sense – you can do a whole d/s _scene_ without either of the parties _actually_ being more submissive in their regular lives (in fact, with it being the other way around, viz. certain ex-boyfriends.)
> [@](#):
>
> and isn’t having an orgasm the entire _point_ of sex?
Certainly not! Orgasms are nice, but I can give myself an orgasm any time I want. What I can’t give myself is lying next to another person. For me, foreplay (i.e. everything but the orgasm) is why I want sex.
> [@panache45](#):
>
> In fact, there are quite a few “pushy bottoms” out there (“You will fuck me, dammit!”)
Oy, been there, done him.
> [@WhyNot](#):
>
> Well, if the heterosexual equivalent is to lie there while the woman’s on top, I’d have to say that 99% of the men I’ve had sex with love that.
I wouldn’t say that’s the equivalent. For most gay guys, the “top” and “bottom” terms don’t refer to actual positions - if I’m getting fucked, I’m bottoming, whether I’m beside, underneath, or sitting on him.
I would have to say the equivalent without getting into SM, if there is such an equivalent, would be the woman penetrating the man (with some kind of equipment, with her fingers, etc.) Naturally, the erotic mechanics of this would be far different as this is far more unusual for a heterosexual couple than a gay couple, since the gay couple (theoretically) have the same equipment.
> [@Ruby](#):
>
> That seemed odd to me as the act of giving a blowjob seems to be the more submissive role where traditional intercourse is more dominant role.
A staple of gayboy porn is (say) a guy fucking a guy who’s fucking another guy, or a guy who’s both fucking one guy and blowing a third. Really, it’s whatever feels good to you, without worrying excessively about the semiotics.
> [@Bites When Provoked](#):
>
> Until now I’ve always assumed (Oh, Og… I’m one of the ignorant! Dammit…) that to have anal sex you’d probably have to be lying on your stomach.
There are tons of positions, actually. The bottom can be lying on his stomach, or on his knees and elbows with the top kneeling behind him, or both on their sides as **Priceguy** mentioned, or with the top lying down and the bottom sitting down on him (I’m told this is also good for first-timers since the bottom can control the rate of descent, though IANA sex therapist); face-to-face with the bottom’s legs either held in the air or over the top’s shoulders (this may be somewhat more common in porno than in real life, though it leads to the epithet “helium heels”); standing up with the bottom bent over, or any number of situations.
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### Author:  [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-guys-tops-and-bottoms-and-related-matters/301415/28 "2005-04-29T06:12:48Z")
> [@WhyNot](#):
>
> The other thing, which I didn’t know until watching _Queer As Folk_, is that anal sex is possible face-to-face, with the bottom’s legs spread wide and the pelvis tilted just a bit further forward than a woman’s for vaginal intercourse. I’m not sure why I never thought of that, since occasionally during vaginal intercourse, the penis will slip out and get frighteningly close to entering through the anus. (“Frighteningly” only because penetration without lube and done quickly would be WAAAAY too ouchy.) From this face-to-face position, the bottom’s penis is well accessible to both partners.
And right now I’m having one of those ‘Hey, why didn’t I think of that?’ moments, because you’re right- it’s not like I’ve never had the slip’n’prod happen, and it really should have occurred to me. :smack:
Everyone who answered my question, thanks very much. 🙂 I hate asking those kinds of questions because there’s always the fear someone will think you’re taking the piss, and I don’t want to accidentally insult someone. Thanks for taking it in the spirit it was intended!
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### Author:  [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-guys-tops-and-bottoms-and-related-matters/301415/29 "2005-04-29T06:16:04Z")
Any time, me trout. I think on this board we’re used to all kinds of questions being asked in earnest.
(Usually when a person asks me some question about being gay, and then expresses fears that they had about possibly being misconstrued, they had asked the question in such a way that it couldn’t possibly have been misconstrued anyway. A person who’s so concerned about being sensitive is usually a person who already has been 🙂 )
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