# "Gay high school" opens in New York... Whaddya think? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508 "2003-07-28T20:19:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/181 "2003-07-31T22:30:45Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **sleeping** _ > > I think that if someone is dating members of the same sex in high school they have already made their decision (this is not to say that they cannot change, but rather that it is most likely that they are indeed gay). Um, there’s no decision to be made, and no “change” other than discovering the truth about themselves. Just to clarify. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/182 "2003-07-31T23:36:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsgoddess \* > **(though my very first thought was a scary one. I wondered if this meant some homophobic monster might be able to target a large group of gay kids this way. Wow, I’m paranoid).** That was my first concern as well, because its true. Most gaybashing, from experiences I’ve heard or read about, happens outside of gay bars. Any place where a decent number of gay people are known to congregate will have that same risk. On the flipside, if they secure the location well enough (which I hope they would) its probably no more risk than these kids have already been exposed to. From my experience, harassment in many schools doesn’t stop when you exit those walls. If these kids were being assaulted in school, they were probably also experiencing it outside, especially if its one which draws students locally. Assaults, again from my experience, are almost more likely away from any watchful eye at all. At least this place would eliminate such risks for part of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/183 "2003-08-01T00:20:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > _Openly_ gay, dear - I’m sure you met lots of gay folk before me, but they just didn’t tell you they were. 😉 Pity, too. I think I could have been quite the ‘fruit fly’. 🙂 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\ ***AudreyK** ,I know it sounds harsh, but I do think minorities have a duty to educate. But when I say educate, please understand what I mean. I don’t mean standing up at a podium, holding “ASk the Gay Guy” lectures. Nor do I mean they have to act like good representatives of their group. > > By educate, I mean that “outsiders” have to simply be out there, accessible, so that they are no longer “outsiders”. I am open about myself at work. If people want to talk to me about “black” issues, I don’t close myself off. What they say may upset me or just annoy me, but I’d rather people feel comfortable about talking about race around me rather than uncomfortable. If I make race taboo, then I don’t get to challenge stereotypes or skewed views. And then nothing changes. > > To me, you can’t complain about ignorance if you don’t do your part to fight it. Being a minority is hard enough without being a “teacher”, but the majority isn’t going to change if people aren’t willing to interact with it. \*\* I don’t have a problem with people who want to talk about themselves. I think people like that do the most to promote understanding and tolerance. My concern was more for those who would prefer not to talk about it. Not out of ignorance on the issues or shame, but a simple preference for anonymity or desire to avoid potential conflict. Minorities shouldn’t feel obligated to discuss themselves if they don’t want to. I pretty much agree with everything else you said. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/184 "2003-08-01T02:33:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > Um, there’s no decision to be made, and no “change” other than discovering the truth about themselves. > > Just to clarify. Yeah, that’s pretty much what I meant. I’m just saying that, having discovered something about himself, a person might change. ---
**Author:** ![tilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tilly)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/185 "2003-08-01T03:01:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*I respectfully disagree. > > And have you discussed your views of his “alternate lifestyle” with him? I’d love to hear his reactions. (Oh, and at least he’s just gay, and not “gay.”) > > It’s ever so refreshing to see someone so proud of their ignorance and closed mind. All of us here at the SDMB appreciate your attitude. > > Like your best friend? > > Esprix \*\* I bet you do disagree… TDB As far as discussing this issue and for that matter this thread, Edward and I discussed how ridicules this school was over dinner. His favorite example of bad behavior and misrepresentation is the Irish Gay and Lesbian Organization wanting to march in the St. Patrick’s Day parade every year. St. Patrick’s day and the celebration of it has nothing to do with anyone’s sexuality, it has everything to due with heritage. Your Irish, you hail from Dublin? Get with the Dublin group. Your grandfather was a ship builder then sign up with the Irish Maritime group but it does not have a damn thing to do with what sex you sleep with… This one though goes into his top 5 of idiot moves. I hate to break the bad news to you but you do not speak for everyone who is gay anymore than I speak for all WASPS, but then again I don’t pretend to…… My not wanting to spend time for your 5 threads of “Ask the Gay Guy” does not make me ignorant anymore than my decisive way of letting you know I just don’t beat around the bush (no pun intended). The fact that you think I am closed-minded isn bloody funny; my brother is getting a laugh out of that one…. You made his night, thanks…. I do want to see the petition everyone on the board signed that gave you the authority to speak for them. Or was this an appointed position? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tilly)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/186 "2003-08-01T03:55:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*Grace would _never_ call Will’s life an alternative lifestyle. > > You need to wake up and smell the espresso. Your words betray you, even if your brain isn’t registering it. > > No one here is sermonizing. We just won’t lay down and take it when people LIE about us. > > A friend who was tolerant would not speak as you do. It is neither tolerant nor is it being a friend. > > I wonder if he knows his Grace comes off more as a Pat on here… \*\* For F\*(& sack, if the use of alternative lifestyle is considered intolerant with you then you might want to ask your physician to up your medication. If you are not presently on any you might want to consider inquiring…… You have not been sermonizing, you have been to busy insinuating that most people who are not liberal in most views and do not agree with this school are bias, against minorities and just plain out intolerant and closed minded. I wont even get off into your assumption that if you don’t agree with most of the far left contingency then you are “against gays in general”. What in gods name is with the “We just won’t lay down and take it when people LIE about us. Who the F^(& do you speak for when you say “we”? Because it is not most of the people I know who are gay and lesbians. You know regardless, if people are homosexual or heterosexual non of the population I know walks around with their sexuality on their sleeve…. It is so f#(&!ng refreshing…… And just what is the “LIE” ? How long have you been walking around with that chip on your shoulder? Do you have a little tin-foil hat on when you type away at your computer because you are starting to sound down right paranoid and delusional…. As far as the “Pat” comment goes…… Even one of my Danes looked over and moaned at that line…… So now let me get this straight, you are really debating the issues and not attacking the person? You call me Pat ( are you referring to the transgender character on SNL?) If that is what you are in reference to, is that suppose to be an insult? Who are you making fun of ? Now, if it is the SNL Pat, I know that you are not making fun of me but I imagine you are hurting someone’s feelings…… However with regards to the present subject matter of this thread, if the reference is the SNL Pat I think your so bloody hypocritical and disgraceful it is beyond the pale…… :rolleyes: _got to mail this one out_ ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/187 "2003-08-01T06:02:30Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **tilly** _ > > St. Patrick’s day and the celebration of it has nothing to do with anyone’s sexuality, it has everything to due with heritage. > > Your Irish, you hail from Dublin? Get with the Dublin group. Your grandfather was a ship builder then sign up with the Irish Maritime group but it does not have a damn thing to do with what sex you sleep with… So there are no gay Irish who are just as proud of their heritage (both Irish and gay) who might wish to particpate? Those same folks who have been deliberately excluded because of their sexual orientation? > [@](#): > > I hate to break the bad news to you but you do not speak for everyone who is gay anymore than I speak for all WASPS, but then again I don’t pretend to…… Nor do I. I just started the threads. If you’d read them, you’d see that every LGBTQ person on this board responds to questions posted there. Oh, but you’re far, far too intelligent to actually _read_ them, as you seem to know it all. And we’re ever so enjoying reading your dispensation of knowledge… Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/188 "2003-08-01T07:29:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tilly \* > \*_For F_(& sack, if the use of alternative lifestyle is considered intolerant with you then you might want to ask your physician to up your medication. If you are not presently on any you might want to consider inquiring…… > > You have not been sermonizing, you have been to busy insinuating that most people who are not liberal in most views and do not agree with this school are bias, against minorities and just plain out intolerant and closed minded. > > I wont even get off into your assumption that if you don’t agree with most of the far left contingency then you are “against gays in general”. > > What in gods name is with the “We just won’t lay down and take it when people LIE about us. > > Who the F^(& do you speak for when you say “we”? Because it is not most of the people I know who are gay and lesbians. You know regardless, if people are homosexual or heterosexual non of the population I know walks around with their sexuality on their sleeve…. It is so f#(&!ng refreshing…… > > And just what is the “LIE” ? > > How long have you been walking around with that chip on your shoulder? Do you have a little tin-foil hat on when you type away at your computer because you are starting to sound down right paranoid and delusional…. > As far as the “Pat” comment goes…… > > Even one of my Danes looked over and moaned at that line…… > > So now let me get this straight, you are really debating the issues and not attacking the person? > > You call me Pat ( are you referring to the transgender character on SNL?) > > If that is what you are in reference to, is that suppose to be an insult? Who are you making fun of ? > > Now, if it is the SNL Pat, I know that you are not making fun of me but I imagine you are hurting someone’s feelings…… > > However with regards to the present subject matter of this thread, if the reference is the SNL Pat I think your so bloody hypocritical and disgraceful it is beyond the pale…… > > :rolleyes: > > _got to mail this one out_ \*\* So… now you level more insults at me. You don’t pay attention, do you. Trying to claim umbrage at this point is so ludicrous that it makes Liza Minelli’s recent marriage seem plausible. You can’t read for comprehension, claim you are under attack, and put words into people’s mouths that were never said. Are you sure you came to the right message board? ---
**Author:** ![tilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tilly)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/189 "2003-08-01T15:05:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*So… now you level more insults at me. You don’t pay attention, do you. > > Trying to claim umbrage at this point is so ludicrous that it makes Liza Minelli’s recent marriage seem plausible. > > You can’t read for comprehension, claim you are under attack, and put words into people’s mouths that were never said. > > Are you sure you came to the right message board? \*\* LMFAO, Oh I pay attention and in doing so I am taking you to the barn over your sanctimonious hypocrisy… I think you should go back and read “your words” directed toward me from your first post. You should also go back up the page and read your words to Sqwert. Of course there is that possibility that you might have missed a post that was addressed to you on page 3… If I had said what you did to me, in your first post (a clear knee jerk reaction combined with letting your emotions get the better of you), I would have had the character to apologize, that is something you have proven you are severely lacking in “character and credibility”… Now you have managed to do it again and all of it was accomplished with your own words not put into your mouth or taken out of context, but used by you… Again go through your post above. Of course I posed some serious questions in my above post to your little incoherent rant, I notice just like the real issues of this thread you have once again choose not to address them. Is it because the answer to my questions was yes to the “Pat” reference? Is it not only because it was yes but because you could not even come up with an inventive lie to cover your ass on that one…… I have been addressing and stating my position quite clearly on this school, not one time have you taken the time to address my political position on the matter. When I took the time to give you a little bit of background information about myself so that you might not assume so much about a person you did not know and you decided regardless that I was “against gays in general” (your words)…. When you do decide to go to battle you choose your wording as poorly as your arguments and it just sets you up to look like an ass. You have managed to do a find job of that thus far… To address your question regarding my being on the wrong board…Nope sorry to disappoint you but this is one of several boards I usually read and post on. You on the other hand might want to take a look at the Democratic Underground, it is right up your alley… I really like to read what is on here most of the time because I find a great deal of the subject matter informative. I posted in this thread because this subject hit a never from a state budget stance and what I perceive to be basic equality to all the children in the school system and the tax payers who support it… While I have enjoyed our little dust up because it has been amusing I have things I wish to go and do. Those in this debate can agree with my stance on the issue or disagree because that is what this board and forum is for. Those in this debate can come to their own conclusions about your character and mine and so be that. Now I am going to the beech house for my mini vacay of fun in the sun with family, friends and the pets… As an after thought, comparing the plausibility of my stance and position regarding our disagreement to the minelli/guest marriage is quite humorous… Too bad for you it is not true, you might not look so silly… Bye Bye ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/190 "2003-08-01T16:29:50Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by tilly \* > [@](#): > > Is it because the answer to my questions was yes to the “Pat” reference? > > Is it not only because it was yes but because you could not even come up with an inventive lie to cover your ass on that one…… Nope. Not at all. I just found those comments so ignorant that I didn’t feel it necessary to dignify them as I figured someone would be starting a pit thread for you soon enough. This is a board dedicated to dispelling ignorance. All I have seen is ignorant spouting from you on these issues with no credible information and bile spewed against anyone who disagrees with you. > [@](#): > > I have been addressing and stating my position quite clearly on this school, not one time have you taken the time to address my political position on the matter. > > When I took the time to give you a little bit of background information about myself so that you might not assume so much about a person you did not know and you decided regardless that I was “against gays in general” (your words)…. Prove it via quoting me from a previous post, or retract it. As there is no such post, you are SOL. I think you have a severe conflict in your words as well as your perspective. You have told us that you have a gay roommate and work with gay people. Then you have used terms that minimize and marginalize and have shown disdain and condemnation. The dissonance between your words and the protestation/backtracking are phenomenal with you. Of course such a thing is only salient when you claim to see it in me right after I’ve used a quote to show it in you(a defense mechanism called reaction formation). > [@](#): > > When you do decide to go to battle you choose your wording as poorly as your arguments and it just sets you up to look like an ass. You have managed to do a find job of that thus far… > > To address your question regarding my being on the wrong board…Nope sorry to disappoint you but this is one of several boards I usually read and post on. You on the other hand might want to take a look at the Democratic Underground, it is right up your alley… Nope. I’m a socialist, but than you for playing Make the Stereotype. I would suggest you _are_ on the wrong board as it doesn’t seem to me that you wish to debate. More and more, it looks as if you wish to antagonize and shout people down like an estrogen enhanced version of the late Morton Downey Jr. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/191 "2003-08-01T17:12:29Z")
Hmmm…even though I’m a cat myself, I’m changing the subject from the above catfight to report a new wrinkle on this story: [Reverends Vow Suit Over Milk HS](http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/2150.htm) A group of Latino ministers, with some conservative politicians involved but not your typical right-wing Republican sort, claim the school fosters segregation. Very interesting. And it brings in minority attitudes towards gays, which I think are often neglected in the national discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/192 "2003-08-01T18:49:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mehitabel \* > \*\*Hmmm…even though I’m a cat myself, I’m changing the subject from the above catfight to report a new wrinkle on this story: > > [Reverends Vow Suit Over Milk HS](http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/2150.htm) > > A group of Latino ministers, with some conservative politicians involved but not your typical right-wing Republican sort, claim the school fosters segregation. > > Very interesting. And it brings in minority attitudes towards gays, which I think are often neglected in the national discourse. \*\* What a paradox. In one hand they bring up segregation and the need for tolerance which is not addressed in a way that allows gay students to focus on their education rather than their personal safety and then the other hand focuses on: > [@](#): > > “The issue is whether taxpayers’ money should go toward segregated schools and promoting the gay lifestyle,” Long said Which is a statement laden with prejudice. It seems they’ve tried to present this as one thing when really it is another. While this isn’t an aspect often covered in mainstream media, I think quite a few of us have recieved direct remarks from other minority group members on their negative perceptions. Not all, mind you. I never even had a thought of difference. They might be black, asian, hispanic, etcetera, but I was raised to ignore skin colour and focus on the person(before the mothership went nuts). When I moved from Oshkosh, WI(50,000 +) to Milwaukee, WI(1.5 Million +) I was floored. I had so much hate projected at me, often by young black men, and that was just for being white. When I worked at a plasma center, it was for being gay and white. No, I didn’t come out to these people. I had no reason to. I was there to work, and my personal life wasn’t salient to that. Because I didn’t talk about women in a dating fashion and would quash donors who were being misogynists either directly to a female donor or by making loud proclimations about bitches and hoes(this was 1994-1996), they inferred correctly that I’m gay. I then got to hear: “There are no gay black brothers, just brothers who’ve been confused by the white devil.” This was from a black woman in my face, saying that we were stealing their men. When I told her I didn’t date black men, she then went off on me for being a racist. I couldn’t win. I’m still not racist, but it has made me wary and distrustful where before I was naive and really thought that being color blind and seeing everyone as equals was what most people did. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/193 "2003-08-01T19:27:27Z")
If that is a more general phenomenon, **Mockingbird** , it could of course be that because minority-status grants people some favors over others, competing for that status makes a difference. > [@](#): > > It seems they’ve tried to present this as one thing when really it is another. Surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/194 "2003-08-01T20:08:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*If that is a more general phenomenon, **Mockingbird** , it could of course be that because minority-status grants people some favors over others, competing for that status makes a difference. Surprise. \*\* What favors does it really bestow? ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/195 "2003-08-01T20:28:51Z")
I think this whole idea is a horrible one…and I really hope it doesnt catch on to the rest of the country. You cannot and should not seperate people who are different than the “norm”. Where do we go next? Lets make a school for kids living below the poverity level? Short kids? fat kids? kids with lisps? Every kid gets picked on growing up…if its not because your gay, it will be because your poor, or your hairs red, or you have braces…etc… Life is tough…duh, and if putting gay kids behind ‘safe’ walls is somehow supposed to protect them…what happens when they graduate? All gay college? Then an all gay company to work at? I think any parent that lets their child go to this school is doing them a HUGE disservice. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/196 "2003-08-01T20:37:21Z")
Isn’t the state forcing a sort of de facto segregation by only guaranteeing that this one school will be a place where GLBTQ students can expect to be free from bullying? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/197 "2003-08-01T20:57:00Z")
_sigh_ The problem is, an adequate job is not being done to address the harassment that gay students come under which not only impedes their learning, it has deeper ramifications to their self-esteem and perception of self-worth. A separate school is not the best answer, but at least it can be a stop gap measure while changes are fought for. Why should the children pay with their educations because their needs aren’t being addressed? From: [http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/05/lgbt0530.htm](http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/05/lgbt0530.htm) > [@](#): > > “The U.S. school system gets a failing grade when it comes to providing a safe place for gay students to get an education,” said Michael Bochenek, counsel to the Children’s Rights Division of Human Rights Watch and a coauthor of the report. “Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender kids face a greater risk of bullying than any other students in American high schools. That has to stop.” > Students told Human Rights Watch that they spend an enormous amount of energy figuring out how to get to and from school safely, avoiding the hallways when other students are present in order to escape slurs and shoves, and cutting gym classes to escape being beaten up-in short, attempting to become invisible. One student told Human Rights Watch that attending school meant being in “survival mode.” The HRC source for the article is: [http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/uslgbt/toc.htm](http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/uslgbt/toc.htm) From the preface: > [@](#): > > Based on in-depth interviews with 140 youth and 130 teachers, administrators, counselors, parents, and youth service providers in seven states, this report offers the first comprehensive look at the human rights abuses suffered by lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender students at the hands of their peers. Teachers and administrators frequently turn their backs on these abuses, refusing to take reports of harassment or hold accountable those who commit these acts; in some instances, officials encourage or themselves participate in these abuses. On suicide: > [@](#): > > As noted, most lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender youth never consider suicide. A recent analysis of nationally representative data of U.S. students in the seventh through the twelfth grades found, for example, that 84.5 percent of boys and 71.7 percent of girls who reported same-sex attractions or relationships had never attempted suicide and had never had suicidal thoughts. > > But several youth reported to us that the harassment and violence they endured led them to consider suicide. For instance, Vega S., a sixteen-year-old lesbian in the Los Angeles school district, told us: > > At my old school, it was a lot of name calling. There was a lot of that, “pussyeater” and “dyke” and stuff. I used to ditch classes because of that reason, or I’d always be late. I would always be outside getting into trouble because I didn’t want to go to class. People would just start saying stuff to me, or they would make it look like they wanted to throw up. It got to the point where I didn’t want to live anymore. I tried to kill myself.205 > > Luke G., a high school football player, recounted, "I had to hide who I was. I had to have perfect grades, do all the sports, be popular-and I did, but I couldn’t handle the pressure; I felt suicidal. I went into therapy and talked about the pressure but not the cause."206 > > An analysis of the 1995 Massachusetts Youth Risk Behavior Survey data found that gay, lesbian, bisexual, and questioning youth are more than three times as likely as other students to report a suicide attempt.207 An analysis of Minnesota junior and senior public high school students found that 28.1 percent of gay or bisexual boys and 20.5 percent of lesbian or bisexual girls reported that they had attempted suicide, as compared to 4.2 percent of heterosexual boys and 14.5 percent of heterosexual girls.208 > > Oregon’s 1997 Youth Risk Behavior Survey did not ask students about their sexual orientation, but it did include a question asking them whether they had been harassed in the previous thirty days because they were perceived to be lesbian, gay, or bisexual. The 2 percent of youth who said that they had been harassed for this reason were four times more likely than their non-harassed peers to report that theyhad attempted suicide. Boys harassed because of the perception that they were gay or bisexual were six times more likely than their non-harassed peers to attempt suicide.209 I was one of these kids. I attempted sophomore year because of the high level of harassment I endured. I survived. Many do not. On teacher participation in harassment: > [@](#): > > At the extreme, we heard several accounts of teachers and administrators who actively targeted youth. Thomas B., a sixteen-year-old Arkansas sophomore, wrote to Human Rights Watch to report that he had started receiving handwritten notes in his locker at the end of his freshman year. When he showed the notes to several teachers, his art teacher recognized the handwriting as that of a substitute teacher’s. > > The principal did not investigate the substitute’s behavior. Instead, Thomas relates: > > My art teacher explained what had happened, and showed the principal the notes. The principal asked the art teacher to leave, which she did. I was alone in front of the administrators. I was terrified. > > After talking a little bit about what happened, the principal began to ask me questions such as, “Are you openly gay?” “How do you know you’re gay?” and the like. I responded as best I could, it was hard to think straight. She then asked if I have been harassed by other students at the school because of my orientation. When I said yes, she acted as if itwere my own fault for being harassed because I am open about my sexuality. I felt horrible, and started to cry. They had me leave the room for a while for them to talk. > > I was called back around ten minutes later. They said they had to call my mother because I was, “complaining about a staff member.” This made me feel worse, and cry even more. I didn’t know what my mother would do, she isn’t very open about this type of thing. I wanted to run away and say, “forget it,” but I couldn’t bring myself to do it. After that, the principal suggested that I go see a therapist. With that I hit rock bottom, I’ve never been so sad, scared, and angry at the same time. She wanted me to see a therapist because of my sexuality!239 > > Alex M. also experienced negative reactions from several of his teachers. “These two, I could tell they were very homophobic,” he told us. "They know that it’s according to the school rules, here in the Atlanta public school system, that they can’t do anything harmful to me. Me being homosexual can’t affect my grade in any way. But every time they see me coming down the hall, they make these physical gestures, like they roll their eyes or sigh. . . . And I had this world history teacher, he’d be like, `oh, faggot this,' `faggot that.’ One time he told me I was going to hell."240 > > We heard several other accounts of teachers who responded with references to their own religious beliefs when they learned that one of their students was lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender. One teacher told Chauncey T. that he should expect to go to hell. “She told me devout Christian stuff, like if the Bible is the divine word of God, then gay people have to come to terms with the fact they can’t go to heaven,” he said. "She’d say she can’t believe a sin so strong would strike someone so young."241 > > Leslie H., a sixteen-year-old whose mother is a lesbian, told us, "One of my teachers was like, `Yeah, you know it’s right for a man and a woman to be together. It’s not right what your mother and other gay or lesbian people do.’"242 > > Transgender students are particularly targeted. “One teacher told the class that I’d had a sex change operation, but I hadn’t,” said Gerald A. "He was misinformed. It was rude of him."243 So, do tell… what is a better answer? It’s quite obvious that most seem to not be getting their academic needs met and are being impeded by judgemental people who through either a misguided sense of what’s “right” or overt maliciousness, create an atmosphere which is destructive. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/198 "2003-08-01T21:00:17Z")
Well, **Mockingbird** , I’m not saying that being a minority is being a member of a privileged class, but the more we as a society recognize minorities, the better it becomes to be a _recognized class_ of minority. Just tossing ideas out, it isn’t like I think about it a lot. I just find it interesting that it is one minority group is effectively attacking another, hoping to forbid them from taking the path to becoming a legally recognized group. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/199 "2003-08-01T21:04:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*Well, **Mockingbird** , I’m not saying that being a minority is being a member of a privileged class, but the more we as a society recognize minorities, the better it becomes to be a _recognized class_ of minority. Just tossing ideas out, it isn’t like I think about it a lot. I just find it interesting that it is one minority group is effectively attacking another, hoping to forbid them from taking the path to becoming a legally recognized group. \*\* That I do see, and it saddens me as much as my experience of finding that color blindness is not universal, nor is tolerance. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/200 "2003-08-01T23:45:29Z")
Well, look on the bright side – if color blindness were universal, we’d have a lot more problems with traffic lights. But seriously, folks, I’m not particularly a fan of color _blindness_. I liked C.S. Lewis’s solution in _Out of the Silent Planet_ better: The 3 main races on the planet Malacandra were strongly aware of their racial differences, told racial jokes about each other, etc. – but they _celebrated_ their differences in a good way, so that racial jokes weren’t considered offensive, just fun. (Kinda like when Chris Rock makes jokes about white people – I prefer to laugh at the stereotypes of my own race, particularly the ones that ring true, not be offended by them.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508.md?page=9)