# "Gay high school" opens in New York... Whaddya think? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508 "2003-07-28T20:19:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/81 "2003-07-29T19:54:19Z")
If I were still in HS, and gay HSs were more prevalent, I would be a little creeped out at going to a straight school. I would feel it would unnecessarily draw attention to the sexuality of the students remaining at the straight school. “Hey baby, wanna go out. Cuz, like, we know we’re both STRAIGHT!” ---
**Author:** ![ArchEtech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@ArchEtech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArchEtech)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/82 "2003-07-29T19:54:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by musicguy \* > \*\*No, the homosexual does not make a conscious choice to be gay. We do not make a choice to be something that will cause a great deal of pain and suffering from many in society. We do not choose to be something that will get us attacked or spit on or killed. We do not choose something that may cause our friends and family members to shun us. We do not choose something that causes so much anger towards us that a fucking special school needs to be opened just so that we might have a chance at an education without fearing for our lives. > > And what is confusing, is not that we are gay, but that so many people are threatened by the mere fact that we are attracted to members of the same sex. > I didn’t agree with this school at first, feeling that it doesn’t really solve the underlying problem. However, after reading this thread, I have changed my mind. Solving the underlying problem is still of absolute importance but I think we can agree that we are still a long way away from acheiving that goal. In the meantime, these students are in need of an education and the public system is failing them by not giving them a safe learning environment. This school will at least help them get the education that they deserve. \*\* As of yet there is ZERO physical evidence that being gay is a result of a genetic, or other defect. I must be honest and say it probably will be found to be a genetic mutation of some sort eventually however. I also think it can be a sociological disorder, both socialized through childhood experience and trauma. That said, we as the most intelligent beings on earth have the ability to consciously reject urges and instincts that manifest themselves in our thought and emotions. A gay person has the ability to NOT live as a gay person. There is Zero argument there, it IS a choice to live gay even if it not a choice to have the defect. There are people who are incapable of experiencing sex in a normal way for a variety of reasons, because of having strange fetish behavior for dead people, animals, children, feet, etc. I’m not saying that homosexuals should never be allowed to experience sex, I just believe doing so is a choice, and they need to then live with the consequences of putting themselves out side the norm. The problem this activists don’t accept this, and think the norm should be changed, instead of their behavior. Should homosexuals be beaten, and alienated from society – no. I don’t believe their behavior; however, should become a “meshed” part of society. What is so hard about keeping it private. I DON’T GET IT! Homosexual behavior is a disorder. It is not normal. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/83 "2003-07-29T19:56:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamish \* > \*\*I’m starting to get a little tired of the “fat and ugly kid getting teased” straw man. I have never heard of anyone being killed or tossed out of their homes for being fat or ugly. For the last time, we are not talking about hurt feelings, here. We are talking about youth protection. \*\* Certainly not every youth who is kicked out of their home, assaulted or murdered by their peers, commit suicide, or are otherwise abused happen to be homosexual. I’ve seen statistics showing that homosexual youths are more likely to commit suicide then heterosexual kids. I’ve never seen reliable statistics that show homosexuals kids are more likely to be assaulted or murdered then heterosexual kids. Maybe you know something I don’t? I don’t like the idea of homosexals and heterosexuals being segregated. On the other hand I have to appreciate the fact that homosexual youths may be going through problems I don’t fully understand. It seems reasonable to have programs to help these kids out. I’m willing to give the school a shot. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/84 "2003-07-29T19:57:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ArchEtech \* > \*\*Another big problem - homosexuals focus on their sexuality. \*\* No, _other_ people focus on the sexuality of homosexuals. That is why the sexuality of many GLBT youths weighs heavily upon their minds – it is their sexuality that makes other people want to hurt them. If your sexuality places you in danger of hellfire, ostracization, or a brutal beating, it’s eventually going to start to seem like kind of a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/85 "2003-07-29T19:57:14Z")
**ArchEtech** - Edits are disabled on this message board. It’s not because you’re new. This whole thread is evidence in favor of vouchers for education. Let people pick what kind of school they want their kids to go to. Regards, Shodan PS - Welcome to the SDMB, **ArchEtech**. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/86 "2003-07-29T19:58:41Z")
At the risk of providing sustenance to a sub-river crossing dweller, I must say to **Arch** that there are plenty of people who are perceived as being gay, or perhaps even are, who in no way engage in homosexual behavior. How are they to “Stop being gay?” Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/87 "2003-07-29T20:00:17Z")
Well, I do believe **ArchEtech** ’s rampant homophobia, prejudice, bigotry and discriminatory attitudes pretty much sums up what this school exists for. I mean, obviously: 1. It’s their own fault: > [@](#): > > I would also like to know, out of all these gay kids that have been driven from school, how many of them throw their “gayness” onto everyone. I wonder how many of them wore some stupid outfit on gay pride day, or wear stupid T-shirts, or write offensive sexual thing with chalk on the sidewalk. 1. They choose to be gay: > [@](#): > > I’m not saying that homosexuals should never be allowed to experience sex, I just believe doing so is a choice, and they need to then live with the consequences of putting themselves out side the norm. The problem this activists don’t accept this, and think the norm should be changed, instead of their behavior. 1. They’re not normal: > [@](#): > > As of yet there is ZERO physical evidence that being gay is a result of a genetic, or other defect… > > Homosexual behavior is a disorder. It is not normal. You’re one lucky guy that this is Great Debates. We’re being nice to you here. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/88 "2003-07-29T20:13:01Z")
Here, for those who would like to express their feelings to **ArchEtech** (whose SN I appear to have spelt wrong in my thread), is a [url="[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201020](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201020)"pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/89 "2003-07-29T20:15:05Z")
That would be [this here thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201020). Grr. Dratted coding. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/90 "2003-07-29T20:38:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ArchEtech \* > \*\* > Homosexual behavior is a disorder. It is not normal. \*\* Might I ask for a cite? If you have problems finding something, perhaps you might look [here](http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/3188/apa_statement.html) . It is from a statement published January 26, 1990, by Bryant Welch, J.D., Ph.D., Executive Director for Professional Practice, American Psychological Association. > [@](#): > > The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as heterosexuals. > > Nor is homosexuality a matter of individual choice. Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant across cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture. Contrary to what some imply, the incidence of homosexuality in a population does not appear to change with new moral codes or social mores. Research findings suggest that efforts to “repair” homosexuals are nothing more than social prejudice garbed in psychological accoutrements. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/91 "2003-07-29T20:46:09Z")
Oh and by the way, in case you weren’t aware… In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from its list of disorders. Now, do you have evidence to the contrary that you could share? Something from an unbiased source perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/92 "2003-07-29T20:49:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sqwert \* > \*\*Well, it isn’t “tied to fence posts” but - > > 20 October 2002: 15-year-old Greg Doucette was so tormented about his acne by bullies at Notre Dame Secondary School in the Heart Lake district of north Brampton, Toronto, Canada, that he hanged himself in the basement of his home. > > Yep, you missed this story and others like it. Why? Because no political action group would be able to benefit with increased donations and nationwide awareness by constantly parading it in front of you. \*\* Well, if you want to compare suicide rates, that’s fine. It will bolster my side of the argument, not yours. So, do you really wanna go there? > [@](#): > > In case you missed it the first time: > \*\* School Associated Violent Death \*\* > Frequently cited motives > 28% interpersonal dispute/revenge > 24% gang related > 15% dispute over romantic relationship > 10% no identifiable motive Unfortunately, there is nothing in these motives that discounts the victim’s sexuality. Matthew Shepard was killed because of an “interpersonal dispute.” Julie ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/93 "2003-07-29T21:06:22Z")
> [@](#): > > As a whole gay children are not beaten and driven out of their homes. That is just preposterous. Does it happen? Yes, but segregating people based of the exception to the rule NEVER WORKS! I think this has been said about 20 times already, and it’s already been dealt with. It’s not segregation or a regular school for kids who are gay and don’t want to deal with ‘straights.’ At least, it’s not segregation any more than a Catholic school is, or schools for the deaf, blind, or those with mental disabilities. [Before we go here, I am _not_ calling homosexuality a disability.] > [@](#): > > Why not go after the criminals, rather than hide the victims.’ A school of 100 students, not all of whom will be gay it seems, hardly strikes me as ‘hiding the victims.’ > [@](#): > > Kids kill themselves all the time because of eating disorders and drug problems. Kids kill themselves because they have physical deformations and are constantly made fun of. Period, end of story. Is that any less tragic? Are we to have a special schools for every sort of socially challenged student? This is just ridiculous. None of those things strike me as “social challenges.” And the ‘are we supposed to do this for every kid’ thing has already been asked and answered dozens of times. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/94 "2003-07-29T21:26:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > I think this has been said about 20 times already, and it’s already been dealt with. It’s not segregation or a regular school for kids who are gay and don’t want to deal with ‘straights.’ At least, it’s not segregation any more than a Catholic school is, or schools for the deaf, blind, or those with mental disabilities. [Before we go here, I am _not_ calling homosexuality a disability.] And when people start “Catholic crimes” or abuse others for not being able to see, perhaps that’s the case. Until then, it seems to be segregation to me. The principle of it removes homosexuals from normal interaction. This does not strike me as a very ingenius method of making homosexuality accepted in public society, unlike the Catholic church down the street or the signs that indicate blind people live nearby. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/95 "2003-07-29T21:32:26Z")
I don’t really see how the existence of this school results in all gay people (teens in this case) being removed from normal interaction. I would say that at least as many gay teens were openly out at my public NYC high school as currently attend Harvey Milk (50-60). The expanded Harvey Milk school will not be a holding pen for every homosexual teen in the city. It exists to serve a small population of very troubled teens who are having real problems getting an education the regular way. I really don’t see any segregation at work there. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/96 "2003-07-29T21:48:58Z")
So much for unity. Even though I can find sympathy with these high-school aged students wanting to fit in and in a be more comfortable & friendly environment, the principle of a Harvey Milk School runs contrary to American values. When & where does the factionalizing stop? _What’s next; Seperate schools for attractive and homely kids? The Jacklyn Smith School for Brunettes, where blondes and redheads attend classes with the albinos down the street?_ **Hasn’t the group-think mentality gone too far already?** Case in point, from earlier today: [url=]The Marion OH Star: Should Black Teachers Be The Only People Teaching Black Studies? > [@](#): > > If two teachers are equally qualified…the edge (goes) to the black teacher…That person still has the advantage of the culture (and) they understand the nuances of the culture…white teacher(s) wouldn’t be well-suited to teaching students about subjects like slavery. Being that I’m always finding fault with the Public School System, I guess I shouldn’t complain, the cycle is almost full circle. Home & Private Schooling -\> Segregated Public Schools -\> Integrated Public Institutions -\> Segregated Public Schools -\> Private & Home Schooling. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/97 "2003-07-29T21:57:32Z")
**Hello Again** said: > [@](#): > > The expanded Harvey Milk school will not be a holding pen for every homosexual teen in the city. It exists to serve a small population of very troubled teens who are having real problems getting an education the regular way. I really don’t see any segregation at work there. I don’t either, and I’m wondering why this thread seems to repeat every 3 posts. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/98 "2003-07-29T22:00:31Z")
[The Marion OH Star: Should Black Teachers Be The Only People Teaching Black Studies?](http://www.marionstar.com/news/stories/20030728/localnews/543922.html) ---
**Author:** ![Turin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/919ad9/32.png) [@Turin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turin)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/99 "2003-07-29T22:06:02Z")
Seems like a seprate but equal type solution… I can;t say that I believe this to be the right way to go. I think special schools would increase divisiveness. We need to educate about differences not educate seperately. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508/100 "2003-07-29T22:21:06Z")
> [@](#): > > We need to educate about differences not educate seperately. I agree with the first six words of your sentence wholeheartedly (which explains why I volunteer for a program which does exactly that). However, until it has time to work, I don’t think it makes sense to let the kids who are served by this school twist in the wind. If someone’s drowning, getting them a life ring is a bigger priority than draining the lake. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-high-school-opens-in-new-york-whaddya-think/191508.md?page=6)