# gay=lame, hate speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 31, 2002, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774 "2002-07-31T23:17:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/1 "2002-07-31T23:17:50Z")
You know, when people say “That’s so gay” in lieu of “That’s so lame” Could it be considered hate speech or offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/2 "2002-07-31T23:53:11Z")
I suggest doing a search in the Pit, and maybe GD. (I won’t now 'cause it’s a high traffic time). This has been discussed approximately 9,042,843 times. Short answer - yes. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/3 "2002-07-31T23:58:43Z")
It’s not hate speech in the sense that it’s designed to get people to go out and beat up gays, but yes, it is offensive, and yes, it is harmful. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/4 "2002-08-01T00:58:38Z")
Well, I disagree. On the rare occasion that I use the term as described, it’s with the stereotype in mind of an effete, ineffectual, timid, unable-to-cope-with-simple-household repairs character _or_ the leather-clad Village People biker, i.e. the more extreme/flamboyant elements within the gay community. I know these aren’t typical patterns of behaviour and when I say something is “gay”, I don’t feel hatred or expect to inspire it in others. It _could_ be considered hate speech or offensive. So could a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/5 "2002-08-01T01:11:46Z")
You’re reinforcing a stereotype. In addition, you’re contributing to the notion that “gay = bad”, which goes a long way towards dehumanizing gay people. Besides, unless we can read your mind, _how are we to know that you’re thinking this_? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/6 "2002-08-01T01:39:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > \*\*You’re reinforcing a stereotype. In addition, you’re contributing to the notion that “gay = bad”, which goes a long way towards dehumanizing gay people. Besides, unless we can read your mind, _how are we to know that you’re thinking this_? \*\* You’re not to know what I’m thinking under _any_ cicrumstances, unless I tell you (and I might be lying). Being a (mostly) reasonable person, however, I’m disinclined to use phrases among people if I know it offends them, unless I _want_ to offend them, which is a useful tactic on occasion. Besides, saying something is gay when it so obviously adheres to the well-established stereotype is more like irony than commentary, like watching a weightlifter set a record and saying “I bet he’s strong.” ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/7 "2002-08-01T03:10:35Z")
I second the recommendation that you do a search, this has been discussed to death on this board. that said, my personal opinion is that it is not hate speech. It is, however, ignorant and possibly offensive. Personally, I would never use the term that way. Then again, I can’t recall hearing anyone else use it that way(outside of this board) since I was in 6th grade. Until I saw how obsessed the SDMB was with the whole gay=lame thing, I wasn’t aware that adults ever said it. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/8 "2002-08-01T04:10:13Z")
I heard it used this past weekend by the mother of a friend. “Oh, I don’t mean gay as homosexual, I mean it as weak/lame/bad.” Whenever that happens when I can’t control the situation it just feels so disgusting. When I can control it I laugh and point out, being as light as I can, how it’s insulting. gay=lame is hate speech in my book. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/9 "2002-08-01T04:43:56Z")
I should clarify what I said a bit. I said it wasn’t hate speech, but it would be more accurate to say that it can be hate speech, but most people don’t intend that way. I think it is ignorant and offensive regardless of intent, but I don’t think you should classify anything as hate speech without taking intent into account. Hate is a strong word, and I think it lessens the importance of classifying something as hateful to say that anything that is offensive is automatically hate. As I said, I haven’t really heard this used much since I was a kid. I’ll admit that when I was in elementry school I used Gay as a synonym for lame. However, when I said it, I intended it as Gay=Lame, not Homosexual=Bad. I hope that made sense. I think in that situation, I was behaving ignorantly, because I never asssociated it as being literal. I never said it hatefully, I was just ignorant of the offensive connotations. ---
**Author:** ![p\_cific\_812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@p\_cific\_812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/p_cific_812)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/10 "2002-08-01T05:06:21Z")
Isn’t “lame”=\ insulting to people who are physically disabled? That is what “lame” originally meant. I don’t know if “lame”=“gay” is hate speech, but I have used this expression from time-to-time and I don’t harbor a hatred for homosexuals. I do know that a breif study of linguistics will reveal that many words- especially slang terms- change meaning as time passes. “Queer” once meant “strange.” It then became a hate-term used to bash homosexuality. Later, it then went on to be “claimed” by a large portion of the homosexual community as a rally-point against those who condemned them. ---
**Author:** ![WV\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@WV\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WV_Woman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/11 "2002-08-01T12:31:31Z")
So what are we going to do? Start throwing people in jail anytime somebody says “Oh that is so gay!” Is the word “gay” sacred now or something? Ever hear of free speech? For the record, if I want to say something is lame, I say it’s lame. I can see how gay=lame could be offensive to some, but to put it on the same level as, oh, _real_ hate speech (think Naziesque stuff) is laughable. Using the term gay=lame is not going to inspire anybody to go out and kill someone gay. Does it denote a disapproval for the gay lifestyle? Yes, but ya know what? That’s just too bad. As much as people holler about homosexuality being equal to heterosexuality, some people are always going to disapprove and there is not a thing you can do about it. Unless you want to throw someone in jail for merely disapproving of (insert people group here) and expressing it. And from what I see some activists say from time to time, I wonder if that’s not what the goal is. ---
**Author:** ![Venoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c4cdca/32.png) [@Venoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Venoma)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/12 "2002-08-01T13:06:09Z")
Every once in a while, this term slips out of my bicurious mouth. I stop, look at myself, kick myself in the ass and move on. Unfortunately, it’s a ‘usage’ that kinda slipped into the english language. Good? No. I think it’ll probably fall out of general usage in a few years (how many people don’t have gay friends now?) ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/13 "2002-08-01T13:16:24Z")
**WV\_Woman** , I wonder if you could be so kind as to point out exactly where anyone even suggested throwing people in jail for anything? Or is this like when you said athiests want to outlaw the use of the word god? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kitarak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kitarak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitarak)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/14 "2002-08-01T14:03:20Z")
I find it really irritating when people use the word gay like that, but I’m not usually offended unless I think they _intend_ it to be offensive. It’s a question of how it’s said more than what is said. OTOH, I don’t think it’s ever ok to use it like that, just occasionally ‘not so bad’. However, WV\_Woman I _do_ find offensive. Please desist from posting until you manage to grow a brain, Ok? Thanks. By the way, unless I’m missing something you can’t do a search for this: Gay is only 3 letters long, and thus can’t be included as a search word. ---
**Author:** ![p\_cific\_812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@p\_cific\_812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/p_cific_812)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/15 "2002-08-01T14:59:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kitarak \* > **However, WV\_Woman I _do_ find offensive. Please desist from posting until you manage to grow a brain, Ok? Thanks.** Whoa there. OK, you don’t like **WV** ’s opinion on the matter-- theres no need to resort to personal attacks. Her phrasing might be a bit _in your face_, but she raises some fundamentally valid points (in her own particular idiom) pertaining to freedom of expression. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/16 "2002-08-01T15:20:45Z")
You’re absolutely right, **WV\_Woman**. Everyone has the right to use the word ‘gay’ however they choose. But everyone else has the equal right to think that they are dumbarse jerk as a result of their use of that word. And then they have the right to say how much of dumbarse jerk that person is, and how offensive it is. Please think about this very carefully; you seem to be unable to comprehend the difference between an expression of dislike for something and a wish to ban it. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/17 "2002-08-01T15:54:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by p@cific@812 \* > \*\* > > Whoa there. OK, you don’t like **WV** ’s opinion on the matter-- theres no need to resort to personal attacks. Her phrasing might be a bit _in your face_, but she raises some fundamentally valid points (in her own particular idiom) pertaining to freedom of expression. \*\* I fail to see any valid points concerning freedom of expression in **WV\_Woman** ’s post. Last time I checked, the opinions of people on the SDMB do not carry with them the weight of law. Therefore, there really is no 1st Amendment issue here. Freedom of speech does not mean that you are free to say anything you like and no one is allowed to take issue with it. ---
**Author:** ![lothos2002](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df788c/32.png) [@lothos2002](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lothos2002)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/18 "2002-08-01T16:51:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WV\_Woman \* > \*\*So what are we going to do? Start throwing people in jail anytime somebody says “Oh that is so gay!” > > Is the word “gay” sacred now or something? > > Ever hear of free speech? > > For the record, if I want to say something is lame, I say it’s lame. I can see how gay=lame could be offensive to some, but to put it on the same level as, oh, _real_ hate speech (think Naziesque stuff) is laughable. > > Using the term gay=lame is not going to inspire anybody to go out and kill someone gay. Does it denote a disapproval for the gay lifestyle? Yes, but ya know what? That’s just too bad. As much as people holler about homosexuality being equal to heterosexuality, some people are always going to disapprove and there is not a thing you can do about it. > > Unless you want to throw someone in jail for merely disapproving of (insert people group here) and expressing it. And from what I see some activists say from time to time, I wonder if that’s not what the goal is. \*\* I guess we should all start using “woman” in the same sense, like Oh, it is sooo woman to spill coffee on yourself, or You are such a woman! I don’t know if you would think this is offensive, but I know a lot of women who would. Or how about “american” or “VW Woman” as synonims for “stupid”? ---
**Author:** ![p\_cific\_812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@p\_cific\_812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/p_cific_812)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/19 "2002-08-01T17:29:09Z")
_sigh_ Now that my intent has been thoroughly misunderstood and I have somehow managed to hijack this thread (sorry, **Hubzilla** )… I was not agreeing with **WV** , nor was I disagreeing with her. I was simply objecting to the “Please desist from posting until you manage to grow a brain” remark made by **Kitarak**. Name calling/insults are childish, they are not conducive to any sort of reasonable discourse, and they ultimately derail a thread entirely-- look where we are now. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Emotional, knee-jerk “Yeah, well you’re _stupid_!!!” reactions are natural. Posting these reactions doesn’t really help anyone (perhaps in the pit, but thats what its there for). Thats all I have to say about it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2002, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774/20 "2002-08-01T18:17:13Z")
I must have missed the 9,042,843 previous posts, here are my 2 cents: Of course it is! Where have you been the past 15 years, living under a rock? I’m outraged that such incendiary speech is still acceptable in some social circles in the United States. If you ever slip up and post that vile, venomous adjective in any way other that its’ accepted usage, I hope you’re banned from these boards and have your internet service disconnected by judicial decree. Do you realize how insensitive you are & how many people you’re hurting? For crying out loud, I have two close friends, a grandmother, a great uncle and a pet duck that would be devistated if they ever heard you utter the word lame in such a negative context. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-lame-hate-speech/121774.md?page=2)