# Gay Main Characters in SF **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001 "2013-06-14T17:21:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Anduinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Anduinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduinel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/81 "2013-06-16T08:55:59Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I enjoy a pile-on as much as anyone, but maybe the OP is interested in SF protagonists who are gay because s/he wants examples that really feature the impact it has on the book/movie. > > If nobody knew Dumbledore was gay but for an extra-canonical statement from the author, it’s not a great example. Exactly. Rowling seems like a great lady, but I found her “it was there if you were looking for it” to be an utter cop-out. If you have to look for it, then it’s pretty lousy representation (though the lack of a later romantic interest doesn’t irk me as much as it might have in other contexts; aside from Snape and Lupin, none of the teachers have their romantic lives explored at all). By that criteria, there’s probably more canonical evidence for Remus and Sirius being a couple than there is for Dumbledore’s homosexuality. Rowling didn’t have to have him swishing about Hogwarts shooting rainbow glitter from his wand, but something as plain as “I loved Grindlewald with all the intensity of any young man in his first love, almost threw the whole Muggle world into darkness for him, etc.” would have gotten the meaning across in an non-stereotypical, G-rated manner. Back to lists… Marvel’s Karma is part of the _Astonishing X-Men_ team right now, along with Northstar. Northstar’s husband, Kyle Jinadu, is supporting cast. Also at Marvel, _Young Avengers_ is pretty much The Wiccan and Hulking Show. One of the X-Men’s most notable villains, Mystique, is bisexual. At Image’s _Chew_ comic, there’s John Colby, bisexual cyborg cop. The titular character in _Mara_ (also from Image) is at least bisexual, possibly gay. DC’s Batwoman is gay and currently starring in her own title. I think they also had a new bisexual character, Starling, as part of the main line-up in the relaunched _Birds of Prey_, but she’s dead or a villain now or something. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/82 "2013-06-16T10:24:56Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > [Samuel R. Delany](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_R._Delany) has for decades been the most prominent gay science fiction writer. His books are full of characters of every shade of sexuality. He also writes transgressive gay porn, memoirs of his real-life gay adventurousness and mainstream novels with gay characters. I knew that Delany was gay and dyslexic long before I knew that he was black. Octavia Butler had at least one bi woman in one of her Patternmaster books. > [@Broomstick](#): > > They certainly were capable of pair bonding, but not all of them chose to do that. Clearly it was an option for them. > > And outside of kemmer it’s wrong to say they’re “male” or “masculine” - in _The Left Hand of Darkness_ male pronouns are used but that’s because it’s written in English. Outside of kemmer Gethenians are neither male nor female. From their viewpoint, being continually male or female is freakish and perverted. I don’t think “homosexual”, “heterosexual”, or “bisexual” really applies. In fact, Gethenians called a Gethenian who was always male or female a pervert. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > To be honest, if a character’s sexual orientation isn’t stated, I’ll assume he’s probably straight. > > Gays make up only about 3-4% of the US population, which is not meant as a knock. I’m a Muslim and we make up a smaller percentage and Iranian-Americans make up an even smaller percentage. > > For that matter, if its never stated whether a character is right-handed, left-handed or ambidextrous, I’ll assume he’s right-handed. There was at least one SF story written where the sex ratio of a spaceship crew was deliberately skewed to about a 10:1 ratio, and the captain is giving instructions to the crew about how they were going to handle the imbalance. The kicker: most of the crew members were WOMEN! GASP! This was actually pretty novel at the time of writing, I believe that I read it in the 1960s or so, when it was assumed that most women just couldn’t handle science and tech. LeGuin’s Earthsea humans are generally dark skinned, and people with light skin and hair are considered backwards barbarians. She did that quite deliberately. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/83 "2013-06-16T12:58:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Also, what was the deal with those sime/gen novels by what’s her name? Weren’t they gay or something? Or gay-ish? I don’t recall, I read one of them but it was a long time ago. Jaqueline Litchenberg and Jean Lorrah wrote the Sime/Gen series (they have a few new books in the universe now available on Amazon). It’s actually canon that the Channels are unable to be homosexual. Actual homosexuals are rare, and the one that I recall as most prominently gay was a self-loathing killer and sadist. I spent some time in the internet fandom and participated with on-line discussions with both the authors. Litchenberg is very adamant about the sexuality. This hasn’t stopped some gay fanfiction being written in the milieu, but the creator is very firm that it is _not canon_. What made some people think they were “gay” was Transfer between same-sex partners, but the Kill/Transfer is not sex, it’s a different thing, and explaining more about it would be quite the tangent to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/84 "2013-06-16T13:17:22Z")
In a Robert Sawyer trilogy, he postulates a society in which the default orientation is bisexual - just about every adult lives with an opposite sex partner during part of the month, and a same sex partner during the rest of the month. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/85 "2013-06-16T13:27:59Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > There was at least one SF story written where the sex ratio of a spaceship crew was deliberately skewed to about a 10:1 ratio, and the captain is giving instructions to the crew about how they were going to handle the imbalance. The kicker: most of the crew members were WOMEN! GASP! This was actually pretty novel at the time of writing, I believe that I read it in the 1960s or so, when it was assumed that most women just couldn’t handle science and tech. Back in the '50s, Fredric Brown wrote EXPEDITION, where there’s a random drawing to see which thirty of that year’s space-academy graduates will be selected for the mission to Mars; female grads are outnumbered 5:1 going into the lottery, but in a statistical fluke twenty-nine women get teamed up with one man. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/86 "2013-06-16T13:42:56Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Back in the '50s, Fredric Brown wrote EXPEDITION, where there’s a random drawing to see which thirty of that year’s space-academy graduates will be selected for the mission to Mars; female grads are outnumbered 5:1 going into the lottery, but in a statistical fluke twenty-nine women get teamed up with one man. That man being Captain “Mighty” Maxon ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/87 "2013-06-16T14:58:14Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Back in the '50s, Fredric Brown wrote EXPEDITION, where there’s a random drawing to see which thirty of that year’s space-academy graduates will be selected for the mission to Mars; female grads are outnumbered 5:1 going into the lottery, but in a statistical fluke twenty-nine women get teamed up with one man. > [@Andy\_L](#): > > That man being Captain “Mighty” Maxon But gay, he and they most definitely _weren’t._ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/88 "2013-06-16T15:36:25Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Captain Janeway Janeway was explicitly engaged to a man. I suppose she might be a lesbian, but I can’t find any evidence. > **[Kathryn Janeway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kathryn_Janeway)** > > Admiral Kathryn M. Janeway was a 24th and early 25th century Starfleet officer. One of the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, she was most noted for commanding the starship USS Voyager during its journey through the Delta Quadrant. Her... ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/89 "2013-06-16T16:25:51Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Janeway was explicitly engaged to a man. I suppose she might be a lesbian, but I can’t find any evidence. > > [Kathryn Janeway | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Kathryn_Janeway) There’s a lot of subtext between her and Seven of Nine in “The Killing Game” when they are brainwashed to think they are resistance fighters in WWII… ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/90 "2013-06-16T16:27:43Z")
Luce Keeva is Sarah Hoyt’s [A few Good Men](http://www.amazon.com/Few-Good-Men-Earths-Revolution/dp/1451638884/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371399627&sr=8-1&keywords=sarah+hoyt) ---
**Author:** ![Rala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@Rala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rala)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/91 "2013-06-16T17:57:46Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > It’s not estrus, it’s kemmer. Estrus is strictly a female occurrence, just as rut is a male occurrence. Kemmer is when a person changes from a neuter being into a sexualized being. It’s been a while since I read the book, but I was under the impression that the people of Winter didn’t really have partners…when they knew they were starting kemmer, they went to kemmer houses, to have orgies with the other folks in those houses, and maybe they had sex with the same people in later kemmerings, and maybe they had sex with new people, but I thought that they didn’t pair bond. I might be wrong. > [@bup](#): > > At least you remembered the word ‘kemmer.’ > > I remembered that when one of them got pregnant the couple did stay together. Or at least Estraven. I could be wrong too. > > Anyway, it’d be hard to call any of that gay, the more I think about it. But I’ll let the OP decide if it’s of interest. I think you’re right. I remember that Estraven had a partner, and they had kids together. He wasn’t a big character, and Estraven didn’t really seem to be in love with him (at least, he was still grieving for his lost love and this didn’t compare). But when he was exiled, his partner offered to go with him, and Estraven refused but gave him all his life savings instead, so there was some kind of commitment there. And the Gethenian fairy tales/legends/whatever included love stories that seemed to indicate that they do form pair bonds. I believe the phrase was “I swear kemmerring with you”. While we’re talking about aliens with such different concepts of gender that labels like “gay” and “straight” are kind of meaningless (but it’s still cool to think about from an LGBT perspective), there’s also _The Gods Themselves_ by Isaac Asimov. The race in question has three sexes: Rational, Parental and Emotional. Rationals and Parentals use ‘he’ pronouns, Emotionals use ‘she’. The sexual/romantic relationships they form are triads. From a human perspective, it’s almost like they’re all bi, but from their own, being attracted to both the other sexes is the default. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/92 "2013-06-16T18:53:19Z")
> [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](#): > > Yes, he has: [The Cold Commands](http://www.amazon.com/The-Cold-Commands-Richard-Morgan/dp/0345493060/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0). It’s even better than the first book, I thought. Morgan is supposed to be working on the next one now. Even better–thanks for the info! I just updated Wikipedia, and found out that our library doesn’t have this book. If I’d known about it 24 hours ago, I would’ve added it to my book order. Will keep an eye out for it! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/93 "2013-06-16T19:24:31Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > There’s a lot of subtext between her and Seven of Nine in “The Killing Game” when they are brainwashed to think they are resistance fighters in WWII… And there’s a whole lot of subtext between Janeway and Chakotay throughout most of the series. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/94 "2013-06-16T19:55:27Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > There’s a lot of subtext between her and Seven of Nine in “The Killing Game” when they are brainwashed to think they are resistance fighters in WWII… To be fair, Seven of Nine is enough to turn anyone’s head, no matter what their sex or sexuality is normally. Also, in the Star Trek books, there is a two-volume series called [Dark Passions](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Dark_Passions), by Susan Wright. It focuses on the female characters in the Mirror Universe, many of which are bi/lesbian. Especially the Kira Nerys character, “The Intendant.” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/95 "2013-06-16T20:25:14Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > To be fair, Seven of Nine is enough to turn anyone’s head, no matter what their sex or sexuality is normally. > > Also, in the Star Trek books, there is a two-volume series called [Dark Passions](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Dark_Passions), by Susan Wright. It focuses on the female characters in the Mirror Universe, many of which are bi/lesbian. Especially the Kira Nerys character, “The Intendant.” Oh, good one. That came across in a couple episodes of DS9, too. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/96 "2013-06-16T22:43:14Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > And there’s a whole lot of subtext between Janeway and Chakotay throughout most of the series. Well yeah. I mean we see her fiancé and her romance with Irish holodeck guy and that tricky alien dude, so clearly she’s not gay. But it’s possible she had that one dalliance… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/97 "2013-06-16T23:22:19Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Well yeah. I mean we see her fiancé and her romance with Irish holodeck guy and that tricky alien dude, so clearly she’s not gay. But it’s possible she had that one dalliance… Does one dalliance make one gay now? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/98 "2013-06-17T00:02:09Z")
Sorry if it’s already been mentioned up-thread: Vincent (Chris Gauthier), the chef/owner of Café Diem in **Eureka** was gay. Camille Wray (Ming-Na), in **Stargate Universe** was a lesbian. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/99 "2013-06-17T00:05:26Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Does one dalliance make one gay now? No. Bisexual, perhaps. Bicurious, likely. Futuristic Jack Harkness non ridgid sexuality, more likely. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001/100 "2013-06-17T04:05:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Jaqueline Litchenberg and Jean Lorrah wrote the Sime/Gen series (they have a few new books in the universe now available on Amazon). It’s actually canon that the Channels are unable to be homosexual. Actual homosexuals are rare, and the one that I recall as most prominently gay was a self-loathing killer and sadist. I spent some time in the internet fandom and participated with on-line discussions with both the authors. Litchenberg is very adamant about the sexuality. This hasn’t stopped some gay fanfiction being written in the milieu, but the creator is very firm that it is _not canon_. > > What made some people think they were “gay” was Transfer between same-sex partners, but the Kill/Transfer is not sex, it’s a different thing, and explaining more about it would be quite the tangent to this thread. Oh, dear. Shades of McCaffrey’s dragonriders of Pern, where she insisted that green and blue dragonriders are always and only homosexuals – greens _always_ passive partners (with one woman green rider exception). And bronze dragonriders are always and only male heterosexuals. I don’t recall what prescribed roles she had for brown dragonriders. Also, I’m pretty sure none of the green or blue dragonriders were ever “main” characters. Although there’s been a lot more of those books since her son took over writing, so maybe by now there has been one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-main-characters-in-sf/661001.md?page=6)