# Gay Man With A Caveat **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 1, 2002, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764 "2002-12-01T12:15:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/21 "2002-12-01T18:28:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*Interesting side note: some kind of committee for Queer youth in Montreal was trying to come up with a French translation for “Queer” that would serve the same purpose (i.e. replace the alphabet soup). They came up with “_allosexuel_”. What do you think? \*\* Given that “allophone” means, in Quebec, ‘someone who’s first language is neither french nor english’, it rather implies that an allophone is some sort of tri-sexual, doesn’t it? Although, it does have a nice ring to it, and could be used as a declaration of preference and pick up line all at once: “'Allo, sexual!” ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/22 "2002-12-01T18:33:33Z")
Allosexuel. _snicker_ I guess it works in a sense… But heck, it’s not like the allophones have avoided racial slurs either! ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/23 "2002-12-01T18:35:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > \*\*Given that “allophone” means, in Quebec, ‘someone who’s first language is neither french nor english’, it rather implies that an allophone is some sort of tri-sexual, doesn’t it? > > Although, it does have a nice ring to it, and could be used as a declaration of preference and pick up line all at once: “'Allo, sexual!” \*\* If I love the city am I a metrosexual? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/24 "2002-12-01T18:38:23Z")
No, that would be me. > [@](#): > > Me, I prefer “people” as the only fair and inclusive descriptive. Well, by the time you’ve done that, the group is completely meaningless and therefore useless. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/25 "2002-12-01T18:39:02Z")
> [@](#): > > If I love the city am I a metrosexual? No, that would mean you are erotically aroused by subways. And we already _have_ somebody in that job description, right, **Matt**? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/26 "2002-12-01T18:51:33Z")
I identify myself as “queer.” I do not identify myself as “lesbian,” “bisexual,” or “gay” etc. **I AM QUEER!** ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/27 "2002-12-01T18:52:01Z")
When I was in high school, the worst way to insult someone was to call them queer. For me, the word still has a sting to it. I think **ivylass** has hit the nail on the head. I don’t find it _as_ offensive when gays use queer to refer to themselves in a gay setting, although it still bothers me. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_griffin-kentzel/32/14787_2.png) [@Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Griffin-Kentzel)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/28 "2002-12-01T19:00:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eats\_Crayons \* > > I identify myself as “queer.” I do not identify myself as “lesbian,” “bisexual,” or “gay” etc. > > **I AM QUEER!** Yeah, well . . . you eat crayons, too. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/29 "2002-12-01T19:00:32Z")
What the heack does this mean? > [@](#): > > I identify myself as “queer.” I do not identify myself as “lesbian,” “bisexual,” or “gay” etc. What does “queerness” denote that “gayness” does not? For me, I’m homosexual, that is, I love and desire sexually men exclusively. Yet, I don’t feel that I’m “queer,” which to me conveys a sense of being abnormal and freakish. Being gay is a normal variation on the spectrum of human sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/30 "2002-12-01T19:03:04Z")
**DrM** I don’t refer to mysef as “queer” in a gay setting. I identify myself as “queer” in _all_ settings, such as the workplace. (I’m out rather publicly.) And I know a lot of queer women who do the same – mainly because “lesbian” “bisexual” and “gay” seem too restrictive, innaccurate or inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Lucki\_Chaarms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lucki\_Chaarms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucki_Chaarms)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/31 "2002-12-01T19:10:16Z")
QUEER checking in. That is all. LC ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/32 "2002-12-01T19:20:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*What does “queerness” denote that “gayness” does not? \*\* For one: I’m not gay. I do not desire women exclusively. In fact gender is totally and utterly irrelevent to who I fall in love with. “Gay” tends to imply someone who is attracted to members of the same sex (exclusively). The term “bisexual” also has connotations and/or misconceptions that are not accurate. Many people think of “bi” as being simultaneously desirous of men and women. (And it also drags out stereotypical misconceptions about wanting sex with both simultaneously.) I have been in a same-sex long term relationship for quite a long time and can’t forsee that changing at any time. Since I’m no longer dating men, does that make me gay? No, it means that I’m bisexual in a monogamous relationship. Except that few can seem to grasp the concept of “bisexual” and “monogamy” being used in the same sentence. I know a lot of women and transgendered individuals who prefer “queer” because it’s ambiguity allows the term to be all-inclusive. “Queer” pretty much covers the entire spectrum: homoseuxal, bisexual and everything in between. It could be generational and I suspect regional as well. But where I’m from “queer” is used all the time as a way of identifying oneself. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/33 "2002-12-01T19:28:46Z")
You still haven’t explained what meaning “queer” has that “bisexual” fails to define. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/34 "2002-12-01T19:34:16Z")
BTW- one of the many reasons “queer” has become so popular in my hometown is because it is used as an _inclusive term_ in the community. Commmunity groups like GLLOW started realising that saying “we are a gay andlesbian organization” was actually alientating some people who would profit from the discussion groups ad resources. “GLBT” and “gaylesbitrans” are sometimes used, but everyone found “queer” to be the most universally accepted in the community. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/35 "2002-12-01T19:34:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*You still haven’t explained what meaning “queer” has that “bisexual” fails to define. \*\* “Queer” doesn’t have such a locked-in definition. I usually refer to myself as gay in mixed company, queer in gay circles… Kinsey 3.8 might be more appropriate, but “queer” gets the point across without having to list my sexual history to everyone I meet. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/36 "2002-12-01T19:38:27Z")
So you use “queer” to mean anything other than “strictly heterosexual”? I can’t say that this really improves linguistic clarity. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/37 "2002-12-01T19:45:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*So you use “queer” to mean anything other than “strictly heterosexual”? I can’t say that this really improves linguistic clarity. \*\* Linguistic clarity isn’t the point, not being defined by others is the point. In most circumstances I refer to myself as gay, when someone finds out I had a girlfriend they may say “Oh, you mean bi.” No, it isn’t anyone else’s decision but mine how I define myself. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/38 "2002-12-01T19:49:36Z")
> [@](#): > > In most circumstances I refer to myself as gay, when someone finds out I had a girlfriend they may say “Oh, you mean bi.” No, it isn’t anyone else’s decision but mine how I define myself. Well, yes, but… This reminds me of an article from the current issue of _Instinct_ that talks about guys in homosexual relationships who insist they are “straight.” While I respect people’s rights to define themselves and not to be strait-jacketed by the expectations of others, I disapprove of people twisting the meaning of language to suit themselves. If you sleep with men and women, you are not gay, you are bi-c’mon, that’s the freakin’ definition! ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/39 "2002-12-01T19:49:56Z")
**Gobear** that would be one of preference. I prefer the inclusiveness of “queer.” Ex/ I’m queer and so is my transgendered lesbian friend. “Bisexual” means a lot of different things to a lot of different people and it can be really confusing. There are so many shades of grey that some pepple have to launch into long-winded discourses about what “bi” means to them. Some people throw “polyamory” into the mix, use "bisexual and “bicurious” interchangeably etc. “Bi” can be such a loaded term. I got sick of going over the subtleties of my sexual history everytime someone asked who I’m dating. “Queer” suits me just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764/40 "2002-12-01T19:58:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*If you sleep with men and women, you are not gay, you are bi-c’mon, that’s the freakin’ definition! \*\* Reminder: I am in a long-term monogamous relationship. I am not currently sleeping with men at all and haven’t for a few years. Does that make me gay? No. I’m still bi. I’m just sleeping with one woman. This is exactly why I prefer “queer.” When people are told I’m bi they ask my SO “How can you sleep with a woman who still has sex with men? That’s gross.”:rolleyes: “Queer” implies only that I am interested in same sex relationships. It doesn’t carry the rest of the baggage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-man-with-a-caveat/139764.md?page=3)