# Gay marriage, gay rights and WTF is wrong with people? (long, probably incoherent rantage) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704 "2010-04-11T05:10:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/101 "2010-04-12T19:09:48Z")
Well, strictly speaking in US terms, rights and privileges which have not historically attached to marriage (such as health insurance) are irrelevant - there being no constitutional guarantee or fundamental right to same, unfortunately - so it doesn’t matter if marriage was the same then as now. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/102 "2010-04-12T19:18:08Z")
On the contrary, I’d say “Marriage now is different from marriage in the past” is a pretty solid rebuttal to “We’ve never had SSM before.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/103 "2010-04-12T19:46:56Z")
Logically, yes. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/104 "2010-04-18T15:52:40Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > What did we decide? Gods and religions for some, tiny flags for others. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/105 "2010-04-18T18:05:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, you were drunk and loud enough, and riled up with your conversation for it to bleed over to another table Well, there you have it. The guys at the other table started the fight by intruding into a conversation that did not concern them. The fact that they took the first punches merely underscores their stupidity and incompetence. The only injustice is that they failed to tuck their penii between their legs and go home at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Maple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jeff\_Maple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Maple)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/106 "2010-04-18T20:23:48Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Sure it’s the answer in the scenario. Guys pick fight with other guys they can’t handle. Guys happen to be ignorant fucktards. > > So they get physically hurt, and I hardly think it will make them _more_ anti-gay. So I don’t see the downside. Maybe they won’t be so verbally abusive next time. In what other situations do you think violence is the answer, then? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/107 "2010-04-18T21:30:10Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Well, there you have it. The guys at the other table started the fight by intruding into a conversation that did not concern them. The fact that they took the first punches merely underscores their stupidity and incompetence. The only injustice is that they failed to tuck their penii between their legs and go home at that point. Penii? Do you have a penius, then? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/108 "2010-04-18T21:32:18Z")
God forbid anybody say any word that sounds funny but isn’t PERFECTLY CORRECT! GRAAAGHGHGH!!! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/109 "2010-04-18T22:19:01Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > God forbid anybody say any word that sounds funny but isn’t PERFECTLY CORRECT! GRAAAGHGHGH!!! That’s “GRAARGHGHGH!” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/110 "2010-04-18T22:41:24Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Eh… lot of wandering to do. Can you highlight some specific posts that deal with the analogy in question? > > I’d still like to hear why Magellan objects to it. It seems like a pretty reasonable analogy to me, marriage denied to one group because of race and another because of sexual orientation. I’m curious as to why someone would argue that it’s not just a debatable analogy, but totally ad clearly wrong. Speaking not for **Magellan** and certainly not for myself, isn’t the usual line that metaphysically speaking, there simply is no such thing as gay marriage, and the only kind of marriage there is (straight marriage) is, legally speaking, perfectly open to all? -Kris ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/111 "2010-04-19T09:58:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The only thing missing is guns. Oh, they HAD guns. Luckily they were missing weapons 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/112 "2010-04-19T13:34:50Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > God forbid anybody say any word that sounds funny but isn’t PERFECTLY CORRECT! GRAAAGHGHGH!!! _Penes_ is just as funny and _is_ correct. Or penises. Tallywhackers. Whatever, just not penii. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/113 "2010-04-19T14:56:09Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Go to bar, get drunk, talk shit, “step outside,” fight. > > Follow those five steps and you you are an asshole. Period. It doesn’t really matter whether you were fighting for gay rights, the Redskins, or who makes the best tuna salad. > > Do a little self-intervention, stop the rationalizations, and consider your judgement. > > * * * > > I was a bartender in N.O. during College and I saw two big kids pick a fight with a smaller nerdy scared guy. The scared guy swung a beer bottle which broke on the side of a guy’s head and effectively sliced his face in half. I saw the bottom half of his face basically just slide down. He’s screwed for the rest of his life. > Do you think you’re going to change minds, by fighting? > > * * * > > Shame on you for even pretending this is about civil rights. If you are going to be stupid enough to pick drunken fights in bars at least have the class not to muddy up some social issue. You did no good. They’ll probably jump some unsuspecting gay guy for revenge. > > Idiots “step outside.” If you are going to fight you should do your level best to kill the other guy as quickly as possible, and by surprise if possible. > > **IF IT DOES NOT RISE TO THAT LEVEL THEN DON’T FIGHT** Because it can rise to that level all on it’s own, and once the fight starts it may no longer be your choice. > > * * * > > Moron. Well said. When all the posturing is done, it’s still just a bunch of drunken assholes fighting in a parking lot. When I worked as a volunteer cop, we didn’t even intercede. Our philosophy was: when the fight is over, arrest the winners for assault and call the ambulance for the disabled. ---
**Author:** ![usar\_jag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@usar\_jag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usar_jag)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/114 "2010-04-19T17:22:51Z")
This is inevitably the end result of ordering milk at a bar. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/115 "2010-04-19T20:08:29Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No, they don’t. At least not the way the word is commonly used. It’s possible to be bigoted against _change_, but the way most people use that accusation is that they’re bigoted against _gays_. Whole different kettle of fish. It’s worth adding that **magellan** also feels that allowing gays to marry may, at some unspecified point in the future, lead to some unspecified harm to the fabric of society, because straight people will gradually stop marrying each other once the word “marriage” is no longer special just for them. I think that a position which holds that gays have some characteristic which, under identical circumstances to a straight person, could cause the downfall of society can be reasonably classified as “homophobic.” On the other hand, if you take his views on gay rights as a whole, **magellan** is pretty well to the left of the country as a whole, so it’s not really fair to rake him over the coals for this one shortcoming. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/116 "2010-04-19T20:16:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > On the other hand, if you take his views on gay rights as a whole, **magellan** is pretty well to the left of the country as a whole, so it’s not really fair to rake him over the coals for this one shortcoming. _Isn’t_ it fair? What if I think Black people are really great at sports, and good cooks, and have great rhythm, but they’re not \*quite \*as smart as white people, so maybe we should reserve more academic scholarships for whites? Is that just a little shortcoming? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/117 "2010-04-19T20:49:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > On the other hand, if you take his views on gay rights as a whole, **magellan** is pretty well to the left of the country as a whole, Huh. I’m not sure what this means. It seems to me that the positions on gay rights available _in the mainstream_ are: People should be allowed to marry people of the same sex. People should not be allowed to marry people of the same sex, but they _should_ be allowed to have sex with each other. I am not aware of a _mainstream_ view other than the above two. What am I missing? There is of course the view that people shouldn’t have sex with people of the same gender. That’s probably still the majority view in the country. But it’s not the same as saying people shouldn’t be _allowed_ (i.e. by the government) to have sex with others of the same gender. I’m really surprised if there can be found that many people who actually think _that_. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/118 "2010-04-19T20:51:43Z")
> [@usar\_jag](#): > > This is inevitably the end result of ordering milk at a bar. Or worse, saying “what are ya… _yella_?” in a sushi bar. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/119 "2010-04-19T20:54:19Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Speaking not for **Magellan** and certainly not for myself, isn’t the usual line that metaphysically speaking, there simply is no such thing as gay marriage, and the only kind of marriage there is (straight marriage) is, legally speaking, perfectly open to all? That is often the argument but it seems (to me at least) to sidestep the issue. For a time there wasn’t any such thing as “non Church sanctioned marriage”, but we dealt with that too. I know you’re not holding that up as a standard, but it’s part of why I don’t find the Argument From Linguistic Purity to be convincing either. > [@Miller](#): > > It’s worth adding that **magellan** also feels that allowing gays to marry may, at some unspecified point in the future, lead to some unspecified harm to the fabric of society, because straight people will gradually stop marrying each other once the word “marriage” is no longer special just for them. That seems… odd. I can’t imagine anybody who wanted to get married not doing so because someone else who they didn’t identify with also got married. Besides, I’d think that a monogamous gay couple would be much more within the norms of marriage than, say, swingers. But that’s just me. I’m still curious to see what Mag’s thoughts are on this subject. It’s clear that I’ve missed out (wrong phrase, by far) on the debates on this subject, but it’s just one of those that I’ve never really considered all that debatable; everybody gets the right to a legal union with the partner of their choice as long as they’re consenting adults. I am curious to see why the analogy with miscegenation fails in his view though, seems pretty tight to me once irrelevancies such as race or sexual orientation are discarded. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704/120 "2010-04-19T21:26:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s “GRAARGHGHGH!” Now _that’s_ funny :D. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > _Penes_ is just as funny and _is_ correct. Or penises. Tallywhackers. Whatever, just not penii. Oh who gives a shit ya dildo. It’s not like Steve MB is submitting his post to academic press for publication. Penii is funny to me (way funnier than the dumb things you said), and that’s all that really matters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-gay-rights-and-wtf-is-wrong-with-people-long-probably-incoherent-rantage/535704.md?page=7)