# Gay marriage opponents, listen up: I've got a secret to tell you **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 6, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496 "2008-11-06T19:08:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/141 "2008-11-10T18:46:39Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > **Rubystreak** : Please show me proof of across-the-board same-sex itercourse in nature. I’m sure there are a couple of examples, but even mopst of those are non-penetrative. If Rubystreak will allow me to share an answer. Serious answers: [National Geographic article](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal_2.html) [A wikipedia list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior) [LiveScience.com article](http://www.livescience.com/animals/061116_homosexual_animals.html) Highly humorous (imho) and inspired by real science: [The incomparable Rick Gervaise](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIcrCZQkSlg) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/142 "2008-11-10T19:24:37Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > The majority of Americans do not want it to happen, therefore, it’s not _going_ to happen. Civil unions, maybe, in a few more states, but we’re not going to get SSM any time in the foreseeable future. Someday, maybe, though I wouldn’t put money on it. But none of us here are going to see it happen within our lifetimes. It sucks\*, but that’s the way it is. The people have spoken. Depends on what you mean by “not going to happen.” We’ve already got gay marriage in two states. We’ll probably have it in New York before too long. We’re going to have another vote on the subject in California in 2010, and without the massive voter turnout caused by the recent presidential election, we’ll almost certainly pass it. Will we have gay marriage in every state of the union in our lifetimes? Maybe, maybe not. It seems impossible that some place like Alabama would ever legalize it. But then again, these sorts of social changes, when they come, come quick. Look at race in Alabama in 1950, and look again in 1970. Twenty years isn’t really that long, and yet, there was an enormous sea change in the attitude towards civil rights in that time period. If you compare the fight for racial equality to the fight for sexual equality, the thing that stands out most is how much faster we’re moving. Will we see total equality for gay rights in our lifetime in America? I don’t know for sure, but I can tell you that I intend to live for a good while longer, and I’ve little doubt that things are going to change considerably before I’m done here. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/143 "2008-11-10T19:29:46Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > It occurred to me that one way of demonstrating support for gay marriage would be if straight couples went on a marriage strike, and let the church and the state know that they will live in sin as a protest until gay marriage is legalised. > > Has this been tried anywhere? I could imagine quite a movement starting, and one that might shake up a few bigots. In what way does this create pressure on SSM opponents? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/144 "2008-11-10T21:50:45Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Don’t you love the “it’s unnatural!” argument against homosexuality, which most certainly occurs in nature across the board, but touting hetero marriage as the “natural order” when it’s clearly a man-made construct and an artificial state at best? It’s a bit maddening. Plenty of things codified by law in our society are pretty unnatural, like the Earned Income Tax Credit, the entire FCC, drivers’ licenses, etc. But let a loving couple get married and all of a sudden it’s Bible Time and we gotta start making shit illegal. > [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > Hostile: Are you saying that all gay people are born gay? What is this, a reading quiz? Congratulations, you passed. Now how about you address my arguments? > [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > So you are in favour of forcing you morality on other because of your “negative impact” “iffiness” factor? How ironic. I think you mean “your morality on others”, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/145 "2008-11-10T23:47:28Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > If Rubystreak will allow me to share an answer. > > Serious answers: > > [National Geographic article](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal_2.html) > > [A wikipedia list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior) > > [LiveScience.com article](http://www.livescience.com/animals/061116_homosexual_animals.html) > > Highly humorous (imho) and inspired by real science: > > [The incomparable Rick Gervaise](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIcrCZQkSlg) The wiki article comes from basically one source. Male-male penetrative actions are still extremely rare. “Bonding” is much more common, buttfucking seems much rarer. We must be careful to humanize animal behaviour. “Acroos-the-board” is still wrong ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/146 "2008-11-10T23:51:04Z")
I just read the following passage in “The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay” and I thought of this thread: [QUOTE=Michael Chabon] He knew about homosexuality, of course, as an _idea_, without ever really having connected it to human emotion; certainly never to any emotion of his own. It had never occurred to him that two men, even homosexual men, might kiss in that way. He had assumed, to the degree that he had ever permitted himself to give it any thought at all, that the whole thing must be a matter of blow jobs in dark alleyways or the foul practices of love-starved British sailors. But those men with the neckties and mustaches – they had been kissing the way people kissed in the movies, with care and vigor and just a hint of showiness. One fellow had caressed the other’s cheek. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/147 "2008-11-11T00:03:55Z")
**Outliern** : I’ll try to be clearer. You have a standard\* by which you judge other people’s actions as “so bad” that you will oppose those actions. This opposition goes way beyond “if you don’t like…”. You give the example of child abuse and I’m sure that even if shown to be a genetic characteristic of the abuser you would oppose it. you would force your morality on others\*\*. Your standard is “it hurts others”, other may differ. DON’T LIKE SMOKING?, DON’T GO TO PLACES WHERE PEOPLE SMOKE - Of course you didn’t invent it out of the blue. \*\* I can play that game too. * * * ## **Nava** : No, that -in itself- doesn’t make it right or wrong. **Hostile** : Societies will always force a group of its members to (not) do things they like. Of course I tries my hand at irony. As to “natural” it is the other way around (as I present it). The fact exists even without laws (marriage, theft, trade), laws are how a society deals with the reality. Taxes are not natural in that sense, they don’t exist without laws. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/148 "2008-11-11T00:33:19Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > The wiki article comes from basically one source. > Male-male penetrative actions are still extremely rare. “Bonding” is much more common, buttfucking seems much rarer. We must be careful to humanize animal behaviour. > “Acroos-the-board” is still wrong You’re going to have to define “across the board”, it would seem. Also, I think we must be just as careful not to de-emphasize the animal nature of human behavior. And lastly, since you seem to prioritize precedents of male-to-male penetration being observed as a behavior of other species, what are your thoughts about the female-to-female behaviors discussed in the above links? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/149 "2008-11-11T00:36:18Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Just before some smart-ass asks: Gay marriage does me no damage at all, but if personal, actual damage it the moral/legal/ethical yardstick, then those Darfur guys can keep on dying, they do me no harm, and those stoning can keep on going, they do me no harm. But you will concede will you not that the Darfur genocide _ **IS** _, by its very definition, harmful to many, that it does have victims, that it is destructive to Sudan, that it is a violent action with horrible consequences to those concerned, neh? I am not personally affected either, but I can show you the statistics/the photos of those who have been, you can go to a refugee camp, read libraries of literature attesting to atrocities and deaths directly attributible to the Sudanese wars. \*_This_ is the litmus of “damage”- not “does it do _X_ unnecessary harm?” (be X a particular person or group of people) but simply “does it do unnecessary harm? Is there a provable victim of any kind?” Where is the demonstrable harm in gay marriage? Whose quantity or quality of life is reduced because of its existence? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/150 "2008-11-11T00:40:53Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > “Bonding” is much more common \ Thank you. Bonding is the only thing that should be of anyone else’s business. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/151 "2008-11-11T02:12:39Z")
> [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > “Bonding” is much more common, buttfucking seems much rarer. You mean “pair bonding”, which is romantic in nature. Anyway, the fact is that homosexual and bisexual desire and behavior are commonly observed across a massive number of species, and who knows whether the Mexican mollies were lying on the survey? Seriously, though, we have provided a massive amount of evidence for naturally occurring homosexuality throughout the animal kingdom, thereby going above and beyond your demand for citations. Do you have any cites for your own outrageous claims? > [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > Societies will always force a group of its members to (not) do things they like. Of course I tries my hand at irony. As to “natural” it is the other way around (as I present it). The fact exists even without laws (marriage, theft, trade), laws are how a society deals with the reality. Taxes are not natural in that sense, they don’t exist without laws. What the fuck are you on about? I think you’re saying that “marriage” exists even without laws. But what do you mean: A) Churches grant marriages? Fine, but lots of churches are happy to grant same-sex marriages too. B) The concept of perpetual monogamy and the sharing of expenses, burdens, joys, and everything that goes along with daily life, exists even without laws? Absolutely true. And it exists everywhere for same-sex couples too, which is exactly why we expect the law to respect our marriages in exactly the same way as it respects other marriages. > [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > Your standard is “it hurts others”, other may differ. Why should we be denied our basic civil rights just because you have a stick up your ass about it? ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/152 "2008-11-11T02:12:44Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > DON’T LIKE SMOKING?, DON’T GO TO PLACES WHERE PEOPLE SMOKE How does this differ from DON’T LIKE SSM?, DON’T ATTEND ONE It substaintially differs from I DON’T LIKE SMOKING, SO YOU CAN’T SMOKE HERE, THERE, EVER, ANYWHERE ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/153 "2008-11-11T03:54:44Z")
**Hostile** : No, I don’t. “Romantic” implies feelings which, at least in the human sense, animals don’t have. “Bonding” may not have been the best word but I tried to say that it passes information that is not directly related to survival (i.e. “run away” or “food here”. The “desire” and “behaviour” you speak about is, again, mostly non-penetrative, so its “sexuality” is not obvious. I’d go for “B” but your bold assertion that SSM exists everywherey is patently false. Even societies in which same-sex intercourse was not-frowned-upon/ accepted / expected / prefered SSM did not exist and I don0t imagine it was in most of those people’s head. Buttfucking and ass-probing is not my thing, no stick up my ass. I’m not denying anyone a “right”, simply because it doesn’t exist. **Outliern** : It’s you who’s saying “DON’T LIKE SMOKING, NEVER SMOKE WHERE I CAN SEE IT OR SMELL IT” ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/154 "2008-11-11T04:15:54Z")
> [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > “Romantic” implies feelings which, at least in the human sense, animals don’t have. Do you have a cite for this absurd claim? ETA: Also, what is “the human sense” of romance, and how would it be relevant whether or not animals have “the human sense” of anything? Wouldn’t it automatically be assumed that animals don’t have “the human sense” of anything, and therefore wouldn’t the question be moot? > [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > “Bonding” may not have been the best word but I tried to say that it passes information that is not directly related to survival (i.e. “run away” or “food here”. Cite? > [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > The “desire” and “behaviour” you speak about is, again, mostly non-penetrative Cite? [quote=] so its “sexuality” is not obvious. [/quote] That is a patently absurd claim. Penetration is not necessary for actions to be sexual. > [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > I’d go for “B” but your bold assertion that SSM exists everywherey is patently false. Even societies in which same-sex intercourse was not-frowned-upon/ accepted / expected / prefered SSM did not exist and I don0t imagine it was in most of those people’s head. Actually, my assertion is not bold at all; it is supported by the millions of same-sex couples all over the world who live boring, committed lives together much like opposite-sex couples. Do you have a cite for your claim? Who are “those people” who have never thought of settling down with anyone, and why does it matter whether or not some proportion of the population are disinclined to marry? Remember, that’s pretty common among heterosexuals too. > [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > Buttfucking and ass-probing is not my thing, no stick up my ass. You sure fooled me. So far all I’m seeing is a combinaton of FUD and right-wing talking points with no actual data to back up the broadly insane assertions you’re pulling out of that cavernous abyss, while we’ve provided all of the data you’ve asked for and then some. > [@Ají de Gallina](#): > > I’m not denying anyone a “right”, simply because it doesn’t exist. If the concept of same-sex marriage doesn’t exist, why do you think we’re fighting for it and have in fact been granted that right in and several countries and a handful of states? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/155 "2008-11-11T04:19:48Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > **Nava** : No, that -in itself- doesn’t make it right or wrong. What I was trying to point out is that gays don’t chose their sexual orientation any more than you or I did. Now, since they didn’t chose it any more than they chose their eye color, it means God made them that way, right? So why do you reject God’s work? As for the “non penetrative” clause you’ve popped up several times, I love those of you guys who think lesbians don’t have sex unless strap-ons are involved. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/156 "2008-11-11T04:32:38Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > **Hostile** : No, I don’t. “Romantic” implies feelings which, at least in the human sense, animals don’t have. > “Bonding” may not have been the best word but I tried to say that it passes information that is not directly related to survival (i.e. “run away” or “food here”. The “desire” and “behaviour” you speak about is, again, mostly non-penetrative, so its “sexuality” is not obvious. Pair bonding and love eh? [Oxytocin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin#Actions_of_oxytocin_within_the_brain)is always fun for that stuff! [Oxytocin & Pair Bonding a starter link of information](http://www.oxytocin.org/oxytoc/) I think the wiki link is way better though, but I’ve seen the other link passed about as well. From the wiki: > [@](#): > > Bonding. In the Prairie Vole, oxytocin released into the brain of the female during sexual activity is important for forming a monogamous pair bond with her sexual partner. Vasopressin appears to have a similar effect in males.[10] Oxytocin has a role in social behaviors in many species, and so it seems likely that it has similar roles in humans. But yeah, many of the behaviors we as humans exhibit come about due to neurotransmitters and genetics- things which can be found in other species as well. So to say whether or not “Romantic feelings” is or isn’t present in other species, well that’s not yet possible, as we cannot know what they are experiencing, only that some animals have similar mechanisms as we humans do, and they exhibit similar behaviors to us when those mechanisms are stimulated (or vice-versa - who knows?). The research still needs to be done, but its a fascinating topic to be explored. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/157 "2008-11-11T05:43:53Z")
> [@RoOsh](#): > > So to say whether or not “Romantic feelings” is or isn’t present in other species, well that’s not yet possible _Anything’s_ possible, as long as **Ají de Gallina** says so. The fun part is that it doesn’t have to have a shred of truth or be based at all on rational thought; if s/he says it, it’s The Law. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/158 "2008-11-11T05:54:26Z")
[QUOTE=Ají de Gallina] Originally Posted by Ají de Gallina I’m not denying anyone a “right”, simply because it doesn’t exist. [/QUOTE] The Supreme Court seems to disagree with you. [Loving v. Virginia 388 U.S. 1 (1967)](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=388&invol=1) > [@](#): > > The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men. > > Marriage is one of the “basic civil rights of man,” fundamental to our very existence and survival. [Zablocki v. Redhail, 434 U.S. 374 (1978)](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=434&invol=374) > [@](#): > > Since our past decisions make clear that the right to marry is of fundamental importance… There are others as well of course, but those are two of the biggies. Zablonski involves the marital rights of prisoners as does [Turner v. Safley, 482 U.S. 78](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=482&invol=78) it was held that the State of Missouri violated the rights of prisoners by requiring them to receive permission from the prison superintendent to marry. Of the convicted murderers from the Manson Family, Tex Watson and Bobby Beausoleil have married (Watson has several children conceived in prison) and Susan Atkins has married twice, all since their incarceration and all protected by the SCotUS because, again, > [@](#): > > marriage is a fundemental right So, if you’re saying that the right to marry doesn’t exist then you express your ignorance on a more international platform. Denmark has placed same-sex (or gender neutral or whatever you want to call it) marriage on par with any other marriage for almost 20 years, all of the Scandinavian countries have followed suit, as have Spain, Belgium, Germany, Canada, and other nations, while the United Kingdom has given same sex couples the same rights as marriage if not the name (which I can certainly live with- call it what you want, it’s the rights that are sought). Even Israel- a nation completely founded upon and inextricably wrapped around the practitioners of a religion whose scripture calls homosexuality (by some interpretations) abominable and anathema, _legally recognizes_ same sex unions of its citizens so long as they are performed in other nations. So there too, from the “doesn’t exist” standpoint, art thou of shit most full and heavy. If neither of these address what you meant, would you care to rephrase your assertion to show what does not exist? [QUOTE=Ají de Gallina] Buttfucking and ass-probing is not my thing, no stick up my ass. [/QUOTE] What rapier wit. A good thing for you that others are inclined to fuck assholes for if they weren’t you’d die a virgin. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/159 "2008-11-11T06:01:39Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > What rapier wit. A good thing for you that others are inclined to fuck assholes for if they weren’t you’d die a virgin. _snerk_ Olberman made quite the [passionate plea](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#27652443) against Prop 8 earlier this evening. (Warning: loud and obnoxious animated ad preceeded both of my viewings of this vid. The animation looks good though. Reminds me of the Animatrix. Something called Dead Space…) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496/160 "2008-11-11T06:14:20Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > _snerk_ > > Olberman made quite the [passionate plea](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#27652443) against Prop 8 earlier this evening. (Warning: loud and obnoxious animated ad preceeded both of my viewings of this vid. The animation looks good though. Reminds me of the Animatrix. Something called Dead Space…) While he truly seemed to be upset by the whole Prop 8 thing, I couldn’t help but think of Affleck’s parody on SNL as I watched that. Enough with the swivelling towards the camera, Keith! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-marriage-opponents-listen-up-ive-got-a-secret-to-tell-you/471496.md?page=9)