# 'Gay people should not be allowed to raise children.' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 4, 2002, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347 "2002-07-04T12:50:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/61 "2002-07-10T19:13:33Z")
This is **Shodan** ’s brain - :wally This is **Shodan** ’s brain after he reads the obvious explanation - :smack: Here goes **Shodan** off to read thru the ATGG threads. Thank you, kind - sir, isn’t it? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/62 "2002-07-10T19:52:12Z")
It’s good to know that my little ol’ opinion could stir up so much conversation. I guess having someone there to offer the opposite opinion can be a good thing, eh? Espirix, I read through some of your ATGG column and, while interesting, I saw nothing to change my mind about homosexuals. I would like to come straight out and say that I have no problem with them, but that might make me sound like a biggot (I ain’t got no problem with them nice colored folk down the road. They make some durn good cotton). I have had heated arguments with my father and my brother on the subject of homosexual marriages (I’m for, they are against). I feel that a homosexual person should be able to do anything a heterosexual person can do (although I can not think of much, save adopting children, where their rights would be more restricted than mine). But, when we come to the subject of adopting children, we have to remember that this is not about making sure everyone has equal rights. It is about the children. Making sure they have good, safe homes. If that means that someone has to get the short end of the stick to protect those who can not protect themselves, then so be it. Now, before you stick me in the same crowd as Hillary Clinton and Tipper Gore, don’t. They apparently didn’t have enough challenge in raising their own kids, so they wanted to raise everyone else’s. I only want to make sure that the children will have parents to fill the role. I see that the question of how many gays have I met has been brought up a time or two. I don’t know. Might be able to count them on my fingers and toes. Then again, might not. Can’t really remember. 23 years is a long time. Five come to mind right off the bat. Were they alcoholics and drug addicts? Well, two of them have been hospitalized for alcohol poisoning, one is dead from a heroin overdose, and the other two are on antidepressants. Does this represent a fair cross-section of American homosexuality? Of course not. But it’s all I’ve seen. It’s all I know. Therefore, it is on what I base my opinions. It was also mentioned earlier that I was entitled to my beliefs, so long as they don’t trample on anyone else’s lives. I beg to differ. The Constitution of the United States offers me freedom of speech. This allows me to speak out whenever and wherever I want on whatever subject I choose. I am also allowed to work toward whatever goal I believe is right. In this case, it is that I don’t believe homosexuals should be allowed to raise children. That’s America for ya, folks. Like it or lump it. Now, I’ve given this a lot of thought. If I’m for gay marriages, then why am I against gays adopting children? All things being equal, I don’t think you should be allowed to raise a child if you can’t have one naturally. Just look at is as nature’s (God’s, whatever) way of telling you not to try it. The flaming against me may again recommence. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/63 "2002-07-10T20:09:47Z")
> [@](#): > > All things being equal, I don’t think you should be allowed to raise a child if you can’t have one naturally. Just look at is as nature’s (God’s, whatever) way of telling you not to try it. So lesbians, who could conceivably have sex with a willing male to get pregnant, are OK to adopt children, but infertile heterosexuals are not. Got it. Clearly a very well-thought-out opinion. > [@](#): > > The Constitution of the United States offers me freedom of speech. This allows me to speak out whenever and wherever I want on whatever subject I choose. This is, um, not true. Ask the owners of this message board, if you don’t believe me. Or, for that matter, come into my home and say that atheists are bad people, or something, and see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/64 "2002-07-10T20:56:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > On the other hand, suppose you have two couples. Both are emotionally stable, financially comfortable, and somehow you could magically tell that they would stay together for life, had no skeletons in their respective closets, and were generally nurturing. One is a straight, married couple; the other two gay men. > > For some reason, I don’t react nearly as strongly against the idea that the married couple being the adoptive parents of first choice. And I can’t tell if I am just being bigoted, or why I react as I do. Actually, I’m in complete agreement, for one reason - the straight couple is married. I few years back, I wrote an article on gay adoption and gay marriage. In the course of writing the article, the research I reviewed indicated very strongly that, in the aggregate, the best interests of the child is better served when s/he is raised by a married couple as opposed to an unmarried couple, gay or straight. Since gay marriage is currently prohibited (given its recent provenance, I doubt any studies exist concerning children and civil unions), it is likely that the married couple will be the better living situation for the child than the gay couple. Of course, in my article, I used this research as support for my thesis that gay marriage is necessary for the best interests of the children of gay couples (as such children will be around, whether adopted or birth children). Sua ---
**Author:** ![QueenAl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/d26b3c/32.png) [@QueenAl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenAl)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/65 "2002-07-10T20:57:37Z")
> [@](#): > > All things being equal, I don’t think you should be allowed to raise a child if you can’t have one naturally. Just look at is as nature’s (God’s, whatever) way of telling you not to try it. So if a gay male couple conceives a child with a woman, by IVF, turkey baster or even natural means, they are then OK to raise that child? They have had that child naturally, and one of the parents is the biological father of that child, so what then? I have a child conceived by natural means, so does my sexuality prevent me from raising her properly? Appealing to what nature (or God) ‘meant’ to be is a big straw man in times of heart transplants, antibiotics and IVF. The examples you cite don’t strike me as the ‘severely emotionally disturbed’ people you spoke of earlier. An amazing number of people are on anti-depressants. This can be a sign of a major illness or not. It would count against them as adoptive parents, but only because the rules are so strict\*. The ones hospitalized with alcohol poisoning - well, this depends on the circumstances. If it was when they were fairly young and it hasn’t happened again, then it doesn’t count for much. If it’s part of ongoing alcoholism, then it does. The heroin addict, of course, is a clear example of an unsuitable parent. Five homosexual people in 23 years (I understand, the only ones that immediately sprang to mind) is really not many. That makes it sound like you must be living in a place that doesn’t have much of a gay population, or your lifestyle doesn’t put you into contact with gay people very much. This increases the likelihood that the gay people you do meet are not highly representative of the larger majority of homosexuals. This is not to discount your experience, but to say that the pinch of salt to be taken with it is about the size of Manhattan. > [@](#): > > The flaming against me may again recommence. People have disagreed with you in the same non-hostile language that you yourself have used. That is not ‘flaming.’ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/66 "2002-07-10T21:07:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by QueenAl \* > \*\ ***Shodan** , I must respectfully disagree about the anecdotal evidence. …Lord Ashtar spoke vaguely of several gay people he had known, while others spoke of specific friends, their parents, and their own situations. Using specific cases as anecdotal evidence is different to lumping all the gay people you’re supposed to have known into one group and never even saying how you knew them. It’s so much easier to lie (even without intending to) about those vaguely clumped-together groups than it is about specific cases. > \*\* You may disagree with me, but I agree with you. I think you are distinguishing between anecdotal evidence, and a general impression. Certainly anecdotal evidence is based on something, even if it isn’t worth much. General impressions can be based on even less than that - second hand opinions, hearsay, mistakes, whatever. **Lord Ashtar** has an opinion, based on his experience. And, as I mentioned earlier, it can sound condescending to me to say, “Some of my best friends are \_\_\_\_\_\_, and so I think…” > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by QueenAl \* > \*\* > As I said before, IMHO, anecdotal evidence _is_ of value in this kind of topic, because we simply don’t have enough research. If we don’t relate our logical (or illogical) reasoning to our experiences, then all we are left with is vapid, meaningless assertions. We must simply take the anecdotal experiences with a pinch of salt and be as objective and specific as we can be. > \*\* Which is why it is annoying me so much that the Search Function keeps kicking me out when I try to locate **Esprix** ’s ATGG thread. He says he’s got some research, but I can’t get at it. There were some links posted earlier, but they are in Swedish. :mad: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by QueenAl \* > \*\* > It’s not tautological, it is the point of my argument regarding adoption. The selection process may not be perfect, as it never can be, but, as you must know yourself, it is strict and strongly enforced. It would rule out gay couples with severe emotional problems the same as it would for straight couples. So saying that some gay people have emotional problems and therefore should not be allowed to adopt is the tautology here. > \*\* I am not doing a very good job with my posts. What you said is what I meant. I think I am going home and use my better computer, and see if I can locate **Esprix** ’s thread. > [@](#): > > “It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to fit theories, instead of the other way round.” - Sherlock Holmes, A Study in Scarlet Think I’ve done enough of that for now. Thanks to all who have posted. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/67 "2002-07-10T21:18:21Z")
Shodan - Do a search on Esprix’ user name, then pick a thread, any thread, and click the links in his signature. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![QueenAl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/d26b3c/32.png) [@QueenAl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenAl)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/68 "2002-07-10T21:52:55Z")
**Shodan** , I’ve asked a Swedish friend of mine to have a look through that research - obviously not for a full translation, but to try to pick out some of the statistics and translate those. I’ll let you know whether she manages to do it or not. Nice quote, good to bear in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/69 "2002-07-10T22:16:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Lord Ashtar** _ > > Espirix, I read through some of your ATGG column and, while interesting, I saw nothing to change my mind about homosexuals. I daresay you didn’t read enough, then. > [@](#): > > I feel that a homosexual person should be able to do anything a heterosexual person can do… Except have children? 😕 Your tolerance has limits, I see. > [@](#): > > But, when we come to the subject of adopting children, we have to remember that this is not about making sure everyone has equal rights. It is about the children. Making sure they have good, safe homes. I totally agree. Please explain to me how a same-sex couple, if treated to the same measuring stick of rules and requirements as any opposite-sex couple and passes, would not be a “good, safe home.” > [@](#): > > I see that the question of how many gays have I met has been brought up a time or two. I don’t know. Might be able to count them on my fingers and toes. Then again, might not. Can’t really remember. 23 years is a long time. Five come to mind right off the bat. Were they alcoholics and drug addicts? Well, two of them have been hospitalized for alcohol poisoning, one is dead from a heroin overdose, and the other two are on antidepressants. Perhaps instead you ought to view these people as troubled as opposed to _homosexual_ and troubled. > [@](#): > > Does this represent a fair cross-section of American homosexuality? Of course not. But it’s all I’ve seen. It’s all I know. Therefore, it is on what I base my opinions. OK, so you fully admit that your limited experience and exposure cannot in any way represent a fair representation of the gay community, and yet you willfully and blindly stick to it anyway as your basis for opinions. Which is worse - ignorance out of ignorance or ignorance out of intent? > [@](#): > > Now, I’ve given this a lot of thought. If I’m for gay marriages, then why am I against gays adopting children? All things being equal, I don’t think you should be allowed to raise a child if you can’t have one naturally. Just look at is as nature’s (God’s, whatever) way of telling you not to try it. Well, as mentioned, then hurrah for lesbians, and pity us poor gay men. For **Shodan** ’s benefit, I will include my sig line in this post. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/70 "2002-07-10T23:00:06Z")
Thank you, kind sir. It may be a while before I can be back here - people seem to have a lot of questions for you. Four threads, no less, and each a whopper. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/71 "2002-07-11T19:53:29Z")
Actually, despite the snide imprecations to the contrary, the current studies, as well most of us know here, back the contention that Lesbians make fine parents, whereas gay adoptees the jury is still out. In fact, the jury is mostly in Sweden – still awaiting the translation. **Lord Ashtar** , you can search through the multiple threads about gay adoption to catch up on the argument. Your anecdotes are yours – but consider that meeting a gay person every four years is pretty narrow. Can I suggest a trip to NYC? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/72 "2002-07-11T19:58:04Z")
**Pldennison** says: > [@](#): > > This is, um, not true. Ask the owners of this message board, if you don’t believe me. Or, for that matter, come into my home and say that atheists are bad people, or something, and see what happens. **PLD** , one of the abridgements of speech on this board is threats, veiled or otherwise, as you well know. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/73 "2002-07-11T20:47:08Z")
Did I threaten somebody? Nope. Or is the only result of “seeing what happens” a violent one? Nope. Grow up, Ace. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/74 "2002-07-11T21:06:30Z")
**PLD** , I don’t recall accusing you of threatening anyone. I agreed with your point, that there are abridgements here, and repeat offenders should be especially wary of crossing that line and maybe chill out a little themselves. Perhaps you’re reading into what I’m saying? ---
**Author:** ![bare](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bare/32/471_2.png) [@bare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bare)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/75 "2002-07-12T04:03:20Z")
::SIGH:: [Judge gives gay dad ultimatum](http://204.228.236.37/story.asp?ID=15007) Mostly I love this state, but sometimes ya gotta wonder. If this man co-habitates with his mate, he will not even be allowed visitation. Sarcasm on:: “We’ll cure them homo’s, one way or the other”, stated Magistrate Mark Riddoch of Idaho ::Sarcasm off ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/76 "2002-07-12T16:55:10Z")
Well, I’ve plowed my way thru three of **Esprix** ’s four ATGG threads, with one more to go, and have not hit on what I am after - links to studies of those adopted by gay people, and what the long-term effects seem to be. I did want to ask **SuaSponte** a question while I was back to click on Thread Four. You posted - > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\* > > Actually, I’m in complete agreement, for one reason - the straight couple is married. > I few years back, I wrote an article on gay adoption and gay marriage. In the course of writing the article, the research I reviewed indicated very strongly that, in the aggregate, the best interests of the child is better served when s/he is raised by a married couple as opposed to an unmarried couple, gay or straight. > Since gay marriage is currently prohibited (given its recent provenance, I doubt any studies exist concerning children and civil unions), it is likely that the married couple will be the better living situation for the child than the gay couple. > > Of course, in my article, I used this research as support for my thesis that gay marriage is necessary for the best interests of the children of gay couples (as such children will be around, whether adopted or birth children). > > Sua \*\* Were you able to identify the factors that led to the less optimal outcomes for the children of unmarried, gay-or-straight couples? And would those factors have been addressed by gay marriage? I mentioned in passing in an earlier post that it seemed to me that committed relationships between gay men were both less common than heterosexual marriage, and even more likely than heterosexual marriages to break up. There is even some anecdotal evidence in the ATGG thread (posted, IIRC, by **matt\_mcl** ), who made reference even to a disparaging attitude toward monogamy in the gay world. I am willing to state, and to back up with cites if necessary, my belief that children raised in a stable home where the parents stick together will _tend_ to do better than those in homes where the parent goes thru a large number of short-term relationships. It would be interesting to see if civil unions between gay partners last any longer than heterosexual marriages seem to do. I will certainly grant that a divorce rate approaching 50% is nothing for straights to brag about, and I am willing to believe that lesbians do better than many in keeping their promises of “till death do us part” (Ann Heche and Ellen DeGeneres notwithstanding), but it is _possible_ that the volatility of gay male relationships could be a factor in selecting against them as adoptive parents. And it is hard for me to believe that the only thing between gay men and monogamy is passage of a law in Hawaii or Vermont, and that once this happens, the male population of San Francisco will be out shopping for curtains together. Anyway, off to read the last ATGG thread. And a vote of thanks to **Esprix** for being willing to do this, and do it for so long. Even when, in some cases, the naive and innocent **Shodan** is learning somewhat more than he really cares to know. :eek: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![QueenAl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/d26b3c/32.png) [@QueenAl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QueenAl)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/77 "2002-07-12T19:33:59Z")
The full text of a study on lesbian parenting: [http://www.lse.ac.uk/Depts/GENDER/opting.htm](http://www.lse.ac.uk/Depts/GENDER/opting.htm) A summary of dozens of different studies into gay parenting: [http://www.ibiblio.org/gaylaw/issue6/Mcneill.htm](http://www.ibiblio.org/gaylaw/issue6/Mcneill.htm) These studies all seem to have reached the same conclusion: there are no significant differences between the parenting styles of homosexual parents and straight parents. For example, from Bigner and Jacobsen (1992): > [@](#): > > The overall finding was that gay and nongay fathers are much more similar than different with regard to their responsiveness and attitudes toward the fathering role. There were almost no differences with regard to degree of involvement with their children, degree of intimacy with children, problem solving, encouragement of autonomy, and the ways in which child rearing problems are handled. The researchers concluded that this firmly disallows the alleged negative impact of gay fathers on child growth and development. Sexual orientation has no overall pertinent bearing on the way fathers react to child behaviors, nor on the way they conceptualize the fathering role. And from Kirkpatrick, Smith and Roy, 1981: > [@](#): > > Neither the child’s responses nor the type or frequency of pathology differed as a function of their mother’s sexual orientation. Results of behavior in the playroom revealed no indication of differences between the two groups. The researchers concluded that parental orientation is not a reliable predictor of either childhood behavior or subsequent gender-role preference. Another summary of gay and lesbian parenting, though with more focus on lesbian parenting: [http://www.apa.org](http://www.apa.org)./pi/parent.html > [@](#): > > As this summary will show, the results of existing research comparing gay and lesbian parents to heterosexual parents and children of gay or lesbian parents to children of heterosexual parents are quite uniform: common sterotypes are not supported by the data. And: > [@](#): > > Overall, then, results of research to date suggest that children of lesbian and gay parents have normal relationships with peers and that their relationships with adults of both sexes are also satisfactory. The picture of lesbian mothers’ children that emerges from results of existing research is thus one of general engagement in social life with peers, with fathers, and with mothers’ adult friends–both male and female, both heterosexual and homosexual. Studies in this area to date are few, and the data emerging from them are sketchy. On the basis of existing research findings, however, fears about children of lesbians and gay men being sexually abused by adults, ostracized by peers, or isolated in single-sex lesbian or gay communities are unfounded. This report also has somewhat of an answer to **Shoeshine** ’s earlier question about why homosexuality was removed from the list of psychiatric disorders (I wasn’t ignoring your question, Shoeshine, I just didn’t have an answer at the time): > [@](#): > > The decision to remove homosexual orientation from the list of mental disorders reflects the results of extensive research, conducted over three decades, showing that homosexual orientation is not a psychological maladjustment (Gonsiorek, 1991; Reiss, 1980; Hart, Roback, Tittler, Weitz, Walston, & McKee, 1978). The social and other circumstances in which lesbians and gay men live, including exposure to widespread prejudice and discrimination, often cause acute distress; but there is no reliable evidence that homosexual orientation per se impairs psychological functioning (Freedman, 1971; Gonsiorek, 1991; Hart et al., 1978; Hooker, 1957; Reiss, 1980). Hope all this has been some help in providing some hard data. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/78 "2002-07-12T19:52:52Z")
Thank you! The ATGG, although interesting, are loooooong, and I am not finding what you have so kindly provided. I will have a look-see. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2002, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/79 "2002-07-12T21:32:43Z")
Nicely done, **Queen**! I stand impressed. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Iteki\_actually](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b2d939/32.png) [@Iteki\_actually](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki_actually)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347/80 "2002-07-25T19:13:55Z")
Shodan, you mentioned a number of times that you are looking for research on “children adopted by lesbians and gays”. Stop looking, you won’t find it. The whole point of the thread is that there are no countries (apart from the netherlands as of last year and sweden as of a few months ago) who allow same-sex partners to adopt children. What you can however turn up are statistics on children raised by same-sex parents. I am still looking around for an english translation of the study I linked to. You were wondering who did the study, it was done over a period of (i think) about 3 years, by a committee appointed by the swedish government. The members included everything from members of the swedish lgb rights organisation, members of the church, academics, people who work with the adoption agencies, child psychologists, peeople from organisations like uhh… “save the children” or whatever its called, etc. So a rather varied bunch, with neither for nor against people in the majority. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-people-should-not-be-allowed-to-raise-children/117347.md?page=5)