# Gay Pride Marchers With Jewish Flags Told To Leave Chicago Parade **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 26, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875 "2017-06-26T02:07:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/61 "2017-06-27T02:19:34Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > All that shows it that the flag may have its origins with gay rights groups in Israel. That no more makes it a flag endorsing actions of the government of Israel than gay pride flags with other symbols added to them. > > Does every rainbow flag with a cross or ichthys added mean the person displaying it supports the actions of all Christians? Just to be clear, I was responding to a post that suggested that, if the creators of that flag wanted it to be a combined Israeli/Gay pride flag, they would have designed it differently. I was pointing out that at least some of the people who make (or, at least, market) that flag do sell it as a combined Israeli/Gay pride flag, and as such, it’s not \*irrational \*(as distinct from _incorrect_) to assume that someone flying it is expressing support for both gay rights and a Jewish state. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/62 "2017-06-27T02:24:17Z")
You’ve been here long enough to know that: 1. Mod Notes ARE consequences 2. Discussion of moderator actions belong over PM/email or in ATMB > [@BigT](#): > > Then give a warning. Otherwise you are just encouraging this. It is not fair for him to be able to harass me without punishment, but I can’t do it back. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/63 "2017-06-27T02:35:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And people need to understand this basic concept. Morality does not in any way depend on experience. I can say something is wrong without ever having participated in it, and I can say it is not wrong without participating in it. That entire line of reasoning is just an emotional argument. As the only person who responded to your post and mentioned anything about “experience,” I’d like to point out that I didn’t say anything about your take on the morality of the situation. I just pointed out that you clearly have no concept of the politics involved in the gay rights movement in general, or the nature of pride parades in particular, and as such, you should really not be telling other people how these things work. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/64 "2017-06-27T03:41:11Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > The Star of David is in the center of the Israeli flag. Saying it’s in the same place because it’s in the center is a little specious. . No, it’s correct. The flag looks like the combination of an Israeli flag and a Gay Pride flag. Someone might reasonably think it was promoting Israel, not Jewishness. Rejecting that flag is not necessarily an act of anti-Semitism. It might be, but it might not. It might be an act of expressing disapproval of Israel. It might be that the folks with the flag weren’t expressing support for Israel, but just bought the easiest flag they could find that combined gay symbolism with Jewish symbolism. And that’s why I was hoping there was a misunderstanding and that if the two sides sat down to discuss it, they might come to some agreement going forward. But, as I previously said, I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/65 "2017-06-27T03:57:57Z")
Not trying to hijack, but is anyone else surprised this story has gone national? The Dyke march is a very minor event during Chicago Pride month and the exclusion of these flags is hardly national news. > **[Jewish marchers say they were kicked out of a rally for inclusiveness because...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/06/26/jewish-marchers-say-they-were-kicked-out-of-a-rally-for-inclusiveness-because-of-their-beliefs/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.dc8906a6db0b)** > > March organizers said the demonstrators were asked to leave because of their support for Zionism. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/66 "2017-06-27T05:15:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, it’s correct. The flag looks like the combination of an Israeli flag and a Gay Pride flag. Someone might reasonably think it was promoting Israel, not Jewishness. Rejecting that flag is not necessarily an act of anti-Semitism. It might be, but it might not. It might be an act of expressing disapproval of Israel. I tend to agree with this. There is a region of a flag that is pedantically known as the “canton”, which is that rectangle such as where the US flag is blue. It would have been quite simple to place the MD in the canton, which would say “_I’m gay_ and _I’m Jewish_.” Placing the MD in the center replaces “Jewish” with “Zionist”, whether or not that is the flier’s intent. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/67 "2017-06-27T05:17:12Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Not trying to hijack, but is anyone else surprised this story has gone national? The Dyke march is a very minor event during Chicago Pride month and the exclusion of these flags is hardly national news. > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/06/26/jewish-marchers-say-they-were-kicked-out-of-a-rally-for-inclusiveness-because-of-their-beliefs/?tid=sm\_fb&utm\_term=.dc8906a6db0b](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/06/26/jewish-marchers-say-they-were-kicked-out-of-a-rally-for-inclusiveness-because-of-their-beliefs/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.dc8906a6db0b) > > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Not really. It’s a story that would naturally get press in the LGBTQ and Jewish communities, along with the sort of press that likes to criticize either or both of those communities and their politics. Added up, it’s enough cumulative attention to get national coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/68 "2017-06-27T08:08:35Z")
They may be unable to tolerate Zionism but they sure can vindicate it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/69 "2017-06-27T09:12:44Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I tend to agree with this. There is a region of a flag that is pedantically known as the “canton”, which is that rectangle such as where the US flag is blue. It would have been quite simple to place the MD in the canton, which would say “_I’m gay_ and _I’m Jewish_.” Placing the MD in the center replaces “Jewish” with “Zionist”, whether or not that is the flier’s intent. Maybe they should have made the star even smaller, and just put it on their shirts. Perhaps in a tasteful yellow. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/70 "2017-06-27T11:01:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I am fully willing to consider the idea that I am wrong. … Yes, right off you were wrong. Consider that. Your first post was completely wrong, completely afactual, something made up in your head with no regard for what were the facts. You tried to portray the circumstance as Jewish marchers trying “shoehorning other causes into” something that should only be “about LGBT+ stuff.” Instead this was a few march organizers deciding that their march was not LGBT issues but about trying attach themselves to a variety of other causes celebre. The Jewish marchers were just being “Jewish Dykes for Gay Rights”. A wide variety of issues unrelated to LGBT issues were welcomed there but gay Jewish women advertising that they are Jewish for Gay rights, y’know what Gay Pride is supposed to be actually about, were not. It seems to me that the Chicago Dykes had decided to shoehorn their particular not LGBT related political issues, such as being anti-Zionist, into the Gay Pride event, like vegans shouting that turkey is murder at a Christmas parade and then kicking someone who had a “Santa Rocks!” sign out of it. But worse. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/71 "2017-06-27T11:31:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Maybe they should have made the star even smaller, and just put it on their shirts. Perhaps in a tasteful yellow. It certainly crossed my mind that if the organizers insist on being obstinate about negotiations with this group, that’s exactly what they should do next year. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/72 "2017-06-27T11:39:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And I love how people who read more into the situation are moderating their stances closer to mine. Just because I decided to actually listen to the “bad guys” and what they claimed, instead of assuming they were racist sacks of shit. No one is doing that, because you got a number of facts completely wrong, as already noted. I have opened up the possibility of disagreeing with the majority of the posters here, but not for any of the reasons you gave, which were incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/73 "2017-06-27T12:37:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The left is becoming monolithic. You read a story about a spat between two minor groups on the left over a minor, unrelated point, a spat that leads to a schism between them, and your takeaway is that the left is becoming monolithic? Christ. The main criticism of the left is that we’re way too factionalized and willing to bicker over tangents. This story could possibly illustrate that criticism. In no way does it illustrate a political view that’s well-coordinated and has reached consensus. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/74 "2017-06-27T12:54:30Z")
Okay, I get where I went wrong. What I should have said is that there’s a particular faction of the left, mainly organized around college campuses and activist socialist organizations that adopt a standardized list of positions on various issues and tolerate no dissent. But they aren’t very powerful, just loud. The Democratic Party certainly doesn’t pay attention to their crap. Now the Republican Party, they do let the nutjobs run the place. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/75 "2017-06-27T17:59:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There is no such thing as “veering towards antisemitism”–it either is or it isn’t. > … > The group gave their reasons for not supporting this group, and they weren’t antisemitic. Oy gevalt. Now you’re trying to speak for the Jews too? Gentiles can and do have valid points about what does or does not constitute anti-Semitism, but those that do are generally somewhat knowledgeable about the subject and related issues. It’s interesting that your version of “morality” does not include anything about respect for minorities with a history of persecution. (FYI - “respect” includes not making pronouncements on our behalf) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/76 "2017-06-27T18:01:42Z")
I don’t know, a group that wasn’t anti-semetic might not be so begrudging about acknowledging Israel’s vastly superior record on gay rights compared to their neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/77 "2017-06-28T00:23:57Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Oy gevalt. Now you’re trying to speak for the Jews too? > > Gentiles can and do have valid points about what does or does not constitute anti-Semitism, but those that do are generally somewhat knowledgeable about the subject and related issues. > > It’s interesting that your version of “morality” does not include anything about respect for minorities with a history of persecution. (FYI - “respect” includes not making pronouncements on our behalf) It is of course also interesting that kicking people out equals simply “not supporting” them. If **BigT** cares to google the parade she can easily find many picture of “Asian Gays!” “Boycott Israel” and hosts of others. There were many other posters and flags expressing identity that intersected with being gay. Only the flag that expressed Jewish identity intersectional with gayness was prohibited. The ignorance in **BigT** ’s post is breathtaking. In point of fact racism and anti-Semitism are not is or isn’t things. While _this_ was a simple “is”, it was straight up that an expression of Jewish-Gay intersectionality allegedly might make a Palestinian gay (who would be ironically be \*much \*safer in Israel, and in New York City surrounded by many Jews, than being out in Palestine) feel “unsafe.” Jews be scary. This was anti-Semitic behavior. But for the broader subject, one does not need to a KKK member or a Nazi skinhead to have racist aspects to ones thought processes and implicit racist beliefs. There are gradations and the belief that if one “is or is not” a racist is one of the bigger obstacles to making greater progress against everyday racist impacts and structural racism in this country. Again, most generously, the anti-Semitic behavior, the exclusive exclusion of an expression of Jewish-Gay intersectionality, might have been based on implicit beliefs and not explicit anti-Semitism, coupled with ignorance, stupidity, and an idiotic belief that “inclusion” is best accomplished by exclusion. It’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/78 "2017-06-28T00:47:42Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It is of course also interesting that kicking people out equals simply “not supporting” them. > > If **BigT** cares to google the parade she can easily find many picture of “Asian Gays!” “Boycott Israel” and hosts of others. There were many other posters and flags expressing identity that intersected with being gay. Only the flag that expressed Jewish identity intersectional with gayness was prohibited. > . No, you will not see those. This incident occurred at the Dyke March, not the Pride Parade. The Dyke March is an extremely minor event, it’s smaller than my high school homecoming parade. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/79 "2017-06-28T01:18:06Z")
BigT will be surprised that he has become a she. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875/80 "2017-06-28T01:19:00Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > No, you will not see those. This incident occurred at the Dyke March, not the Pride Parade. The Dyke March is an extremely minor event, it’s smaller than my high school homecoming parade. And I googled and saw. Such as this “[Proud to be Gaysian](http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/lgbt/Dyke-March-draws-big-numbers-in-Uptown/43522.html)” one. Also in that stream “Queer and Asian in Chicago.” And yes there were [“Zionism Sucks!”](https://www.google.com/search?q=chicago+dyke+march+2017+boycott+israel&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS728US728&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiu5M7art_UAhXDSyYKHZhtAgcQ_AUICygC&biw=1941&bih=1016#imgrc=iFNqRkwg8gZdMM:) ones. So uh yes you will see those. There. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-pride-marchers-with-jewish-flags-told-to-leave-chicago-parade/789875.md?page=5)