# Gay refugee's not femme enough to get status **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 4, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461 "2004-05-04T14:23:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/1 "2004-05-04T14:23:31Z")
From the “Now, you _stop that!_” department: [The Globe and Mail](http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040504.wxgay-refugee0504/BNStory/National/) > [@](#): > > The Immigration and Refugee Board has rejected the asylum case of a Mexican homosexual man on the grounds that he is not “visibly effeminate” and therefore not vulnerable to persecution in his homeland. [snip] > > The IRB believed his story. But the panel member also found that Mr. Rivera could relocate to Mexico City where conditions for homosexuals are more favourable. Only effeminate men, HIV-positive men, political activists and whistle blowers in Mexico need refugee protection, according to documentary evidence relied on by the IRB. > > “The IRB’s reasoning was, ‘You don’t act or look gay, so just go back and no one is going to bother you.’ It’s like telling him to go back and live in the closet,” said Robert Blanshay, Mr. Rivera’s lawyer. [snip] > > He said he fled after he was repeatedly the victim of police extortion. He believed Canada would offer him a haven and he did not want to pretend to be effeminate to bolster his chances of success with the refugee process. Now, there was an article last week that there are supposedly lots of people who are abusing the refugee system by claiming to be gay and to be facing persecution for that reason. Leaving aside the question of “is it really necessary to be quite so picky,” for Chrissake if you don’t think he’s really facing the persecution he says he’s facing, say so. That’s one thing. The IRB’s line of reasoning, on the other hand, is unacceptable. It’s completely out of line to say that the closet is an acceptable alternative to losing your human rights. The notion that he’s too butch to be persecuted and that only femme men can suffer homophobia is just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/2 "2004-05-04T14:40:14Z")
Shoot, I guess that means I can’t seek asylum in Canada either when Bush unveils the next phase of his adminstration’s plan for gay people. Something to do with “resettlement in the East”–condos in New Jersey, maybe? Seriously, though, that’s messed up. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/3 "2004-05-04T14:49:01Z")
That is a messed up line of reasoning. I wonder if their way of determining how effeminite a guy is, is by taking the straight acting quiz. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/4 "2004-05-04T14:55:22Z")
Huh, I got a 1 on that quiz. WTF has “straight-acting” got to do with stereotypical masculinity? “Straight-acting” means acting like straight men, so presumably that entails having sex with women. No matter how hairychested and butch one might be, if one is chugging sausage, one is not “straight-acting.” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/5 "2004-05-04T14:58:49Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > From the “Now, you _stop that!_” department: > > [The Globe and Mail](http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040504.wxgay-refugee0504/BNStory/National/) > > Now, there was an article last week that there are supposedly lots of people who are abusing the refugee system by claiming to be gay and to be facing persecution for that reason. > > Leaving aside the question of “is it really necessary to be quite so picky,” for Chrissake if you don’t think he’s really facing the persecution he says he’s facing, say so. That’s one thing. > > The IRB’s line of reasoning, on the other hand, is unacceptable. It’s completely out of line to say that the closet is an acceptable alternative to losing your human rights. The notion that he’s too butch to be persecuted and that only femme men can suffer homophobia is just stupid. Why don’t they just do the hair and make-up thing so they look “gayer”? If all it takes is an effeminate look, nearly anyone can pull that off. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/6 "2004-05-04T15:14:18Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Huh, I got a 1 on that quiz. WTF has “straight-acting” got to do with stereotypical masculinity? “Straight-acting” means acting like straight men, so presumably that entails having sex with women. No matter how hairychested and butch one might be, if one is chugging sausage, one is not “straight-acting.” LOL, very true. Got a 1 here myself and I still refuse to see the movie Titanic (whatever that has to do with “str8 acting”). > [@Kalhoun](#): > > Why don’t they just do the hair and make-up thing so they look “gayer”? If all it takes is an effeminate look, nearly anyone can pull that off. That’s very Corporal Klinger section 8. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/7 "2004-05-04T15:23:22Z")
**Kalhoun:** > [@](#): > > “I know some gay refugees who put on lipstick and dressed effeminately for their hearings because they thought it would help their case. But that is not who I am,” Mr. Rivera said in an interview in a Church Street eatery in the heart of Toronto’s gay village. “You don’t choose to be gay. It’s not like being a vegetarian. It’s a very complex thing.” ---
**Author:** ![Eyke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Eyke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyke)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/8 "2004-05-04T15:24:16Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > “Straight-acting” means acting like straight men, so presumably that entails having sex with women. I was given that definition when I said I was straight for my first 40 years. “No, you were straight acting!” I do have to say, I probably could have gotten an Oscar! 🙂 I guess you can use “straight acting” to mean not leaving the comfort of the closet, eh? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/9 "2004-05-04T15:25:25Z")
Oh, fer chrissake… “Only effeminate men, HIV+, political activists and whistle blowers” are at risk? Oookaay… hey I know they cannot just let in everyone claiming to be opressed, but like matt said, they could come up with a better explanation. Speakign of which, I have seen what the Mexican tabloid press is like. This dude’s privacy or anonymity is probably, er, blown to the moon, and by seeking asylum he _has_ become a “troublemaker” in the eyes of those who would give him grief. Wish him luck! > [@gobear](#): > > “Straight-acting” means acting like straight men, so presumably that entails having sex with women. Actually, most of the time it means NOT having sex with women, and acting like complete fools in the attempt to get to have some. > [@](#): > > No matter how hairychested and butch one might be, if one is chugging sausage, one is not “straight-acting.” Stop right there. I most certainly do not need THIS going on in the customs line, it’s already annoying enough to watch people try to explain the (actual) undeclared sausages. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/10 "2004-05-04T15:28:39Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > No matter how hairychested and butch one might be, if one is chugging sausage, one is not “straight-acting.” You owe my radio station a new sound board, **gobear**. 😃 Robin ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/11 "2004-05-04T15:29:46Z")
OK, if we’re gonna have some of _you people_ in here, kindly act the part. Hey, could you show me the wrist thingie and do the sybilant “s” again? You know what it reminds me of? Those surgical programs for transsexuals, where eventually they’ll do sex reassignent surgery but first you have to spend _x_ amt of time living like the opposite sex, and you’d damn well better spend that time living like a really really stereotypical member of that sex. If you’re M2F we better not catch you in jeans, _boy_… ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/12 "2004-05-04T15:32:16Z")
Lithen, jutht becauthe _I’m_ good at it… ---
**Author:** ![Eyke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Eyke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyke)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/13 "2004-05-04T16:00:14Z")
Wow, just think of the opportunity for the enterprising members of the community: \ Are you trying to gain asylum from gaybashing in your native country? Are you having problems because you just not gay enough? Enroll now in “Be A Sthisthter Sthudiosth!” We’ll teach you how to sashy, how do to the finger snap whilst screaming “GIRLFRIEND!!” Our fabulous fashion consultants will dress you in the finest form fitting tees and come fuck me shorts or luscious leather depending on body mass. All results are guarenteed to gain you entry in the Western country of choice. Not available in all areas, do not take if under doctor’s care, your milage my vary. Not available in combination with any other offers. \ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/14 "2004-05-04T16:49:22Z")
> [@Eyke](#): > > I was given that definition when I said I was straight for my first 40 years. “No, you were straight acting!” I do have to say, I probably could have gotten an Oscar! 🙂 > > I guess you can use “straight acting” to mean not leaving the comfort of the closet, eh? Am I correctly interpreting this to mean you didn’t Come Out until you were 40 and had relationships with women before? If so, then it’s about damn time someone besides me on this board had a tough time of it. I was married until I was 32 and have been out for nearly 3 years now. All these other folks seem to have figured it out early and avoided the whole straight marriage mess. BTW, I was rated: > [@](#): > > Your score is 184 > > LEVEL 9 – THE ULTIMATE FEMININE > > If you haven’t tried on drag, you’ve certainly thought about it. The blinding stage lights, the screaming men, the lip syncing of RuPaul songs are a dream come true as the world becomes a smaller, more manageable place when you’re on stage. There’s a whole new world out there and you’re letting everyone you come into contact with know that you belong center stage. And here I thought I passed. ---
**Author:** ![Eyke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Eyke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyke)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/15 "2004-05-04T17:11:20Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Am I correctly interpreting this to mean you didn’t Come Out until you were 40 and had relationships with women before? Quite right Homebrew. BTW, I’m another queer homebrewer, been doing it for the last 3 seasons. (Queermahomo Brewing Co. presents “Queer Beer”! 🙂 ) How often have you said, “Now I understand when I (insert current epiphany here)!”? OR “I should’ve known then” :smack: But if I had came out when I was in my first sexual relationship I would not have met the love of my life or could have died. AFA relationship"s" with wom"e"n, make those singular…go figure :smack: HWMBO was married for about 1-1/2 years after high school, she wanted children…he wanted out…so he did. Do you have children? If so, there’s a thread in the making there! Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/16 "2004-05-04T17:23:38Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > **Kalhoun:** (from Matt Mcl) “I know some gay refugees who put on lipstick and dressed effeminately for their hearings because they thought it would help their case. But that is not who I am,” Mr. Rivera said in an interview in a Church Street eatery in the heart of Toronto’s gay village. “You don’t choose to be gay. It’s not like being a vegetarian. It’s a very complex thing.” I thought we were talking about getting out of an oppressive situation and getting in to the U.S. legally. I’d do whatever I had to do. Yes, the rules are out of whack, but you still have to deal with the situation at hand. That’s all’s I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/17 "2004-05-04T17:37:08Z")
Britain wouldn’t grant an Jamaican lesbian asylum because she had children. The fact that she had suffered physical assault because of her sexual preference, then tried to hide out of fear by having relationships with men apparently wasn’t an acceptable defence. An official said “While I accept that homosexuals (at least men) do enter heterosexual relationships to conceal their sexuality, the appellant seems to have done so to an extraordinary degree.” The ruling also said: “She could just move out of her native town of Kingston to escape the thugs rather than emigrating to England.” Neither did the possibility that she was bisexual, and wanted the freedom to choose whichever partner she wished seem to to occur to these people. By the way, homosexuality is illegal in Jamaica ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/18 "2004-05-04T18:33:53Z")
> [@Eyke](#): > > How often have you said, “Now I understand when I (insert current epiphany here)!”? OR “I should’ve known then” :smack: Oh, like every 10 minutes for the first year. It still happens sometimes. I was married for 7 years and have one child. My ex-wife is a lesbian and shared the epiphany. We still amuse ourselves sometimes with “you should’ve know when you did …” I guess the double coming out made it easier for us to maintain the friendship (once we got over the initial interference from a particularly controlling/jealous lover of hers). [My story](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=101441) is here on the Dope. I’ve been brewing for about 10 years total, although I haven’t brewed in about 2. I bought about 100 lbs of grain and then moved. And moved again. And again. And now I’m moving to St. Louis in two weeks. Eventually I’m going to get settled down long enough to start again. I just got a small deep freeze to use for lagering or serving kegs so I’m 'bout set. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/19 "2004-05-04T18:57:31Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > The IRB’s line of reasoning, on the other hand, is unacceptable. It’s completely out of line to say that the closet is an acceptable alternative to losing your human rights. The notion that he’s too butch to be persecuted and that only femme men can suffer homophobia is just stupid. Just out of curiosity **matt** , but why is this directed at Canadian officials? I don’t know for sure, but I would guess that more deserving people have been turned down for asylum in Canada. Shouldn’t the main thrust of your rant be directed at Mexico? After all that is where the problem seems to be institutionalized. OTOH, I can see a new wave of asylum seeking gay men. They’ll be hamming it up like a cross-dressing scene on a cheesy sitcom. ---
**Author:** ![Eyke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Eyke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyke)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461/20 "2004-05-04T18:57:37Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Oh, like every 10 minutes for the first year. It still happens sometimes. > > I was married for 7 years and have one child. My ex-wife is a lesbian and shared the epiphany. We still amuse ourselves sometimes with “you should’ve know when you did …” [My story](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=101441) is here on the Dope. YOY! ;j How ironic is that? "Honey, I love you but I"m gay…That’s OK honey, me, too! 😛 I have twin boys that are having a hard time with this. ☹ HWMBO and I have been together for a schoach over 4 years. I’ll have to have a peek at your thread. Cheers! We now join our regularly scheduled thread [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-refugees-not-femme-enough-to-get-status/243461.md?page=2)