# Gay Subtexts I Probably Missed In Films **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 7, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947 "2005-08-07T03:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/41 "2005-08-07T19:26:48Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Have you even seen _Mad Max_? All those guys in leather suits showing their asses, delivering lines like “be still, my dog of war” and going berserk when their boyfriends die? That’s not _sub_text, that’s just plain text. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/42 "2005-08-07T19:28:33Z")
Nigel’s jealousy of David’s girlfriend in _This Is Spinal Tap_ always sets off my buttsex…er, SUBTEXT alert. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/43 "2005-08-07T19:28:33Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > **The Maltese Falcon[** (John Huston version), though the implications are pretty clear. There’s a lot of knowing looks as Spade looks at Joel Cairo’s card. And, of course, Spade refers to Wilmer as “your gunsel” to Guttman. As I often point out here, “gunsel” at the time meant a young homosexual who has a relationship for an older man. And as I’m sure many other people have said, _in the book_ it’s not even implied - it’s right there. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/44 "2005-08-07T19:42:55Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That’s not _sub_text, that’s just plain text. Well, if the objective is to piss Mel Gibson off, it should work as well as anything. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/45 "2005-08-07T20:09:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That’s not _sub_text, that’s just plain text. That’s what I was going to say about the book (which I’ve not yet read) of FRIED GREEN TOMATOES. In the movie, it was subtext. In the book, I believe it was outright in the text. Reading about it was how I found out that cute redhead from all the early 70s game shows (that was all I knew Fannie Flagg from) was gay. I am totally sure Tolkien didn’t intend it but another vote for Legolas & Gimli. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/46 "2005-08-07T20:24:10Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > That’s what I was going to say about the book (which I’ve not yet read) of FRIED GREEN TOMATOES. In the movie, it was subtext. In the book, I believe it was outright in the text. Well, there’s no hot girl-on-girl action in the book but there’s no question that Ruth and Idgie are an accepted couple in the town and that Ruth’s son is considered to be Idgie’s as well. > [@FriarTed](#): > > Reading about it was how I found out that cute redhead from all the early 70s game shows (that was all I knew Fannie Flagg from) was gay. I had no idea until I read Rita Mae Brown’s autobiography. They used to be a couple. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/47 "2005-08-07T20:56:08Z")
Here’s one I’m sure nearly nobody missed: I just watched Ghostbusters 2 again, and there’s plenty of general scenes of them shooting spooge from those phallic silver devices (sexual but not necessarily gay, since they are money-shotting the Statue Of Liberty), but the really gay scene is where the Dan Ackroyd character and the dude with the accent tell each other they love each other and embrace, dripping with gallons of semen-like goo. ---
**Author:** ![Lisa-go-Blind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Lisa-go-Blind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lisa-go-Blind)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/48 "2005-08-07T22:04:53Z")
Interesting how so many vampire movies are on this list. How about [Nosferatu](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0013442/)? I’m specifically thinking of the scene when Count Orlok and Hutter are sitting down to dinner in Orlok’s castle. Hutter “accidentally” cuts his thumb while slicing bread, and Orlok rushes to his side and attempts to suck the blood off his thumb. Lokke Heiss’s DVD commentary even refers to Hutter’s cut as “flirting” because he’s enticing the bloodthirsty Count. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/49 "2005-08-07T22:17:06Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Reading about it was how I found out that cute redhead from all the early 70s game shows (that was all I knew Fannie Flagg from) was gay. Also, she and Dick Sargent appeared as a “couple” on the TV program “Tattletales.” ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/50 "2005-08-07T22:33:53Z")
There’s always “The Tick”, although that’s more text than subtext. Arthur and The Tick live together, go to superhero bars, and try to get the world to understand their superhero lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/51 "2005-08-07T23:01:29Z")
On the risk of repeating myself (which I often do), how 'bout Red Ryder and Little Beaver. (BEAVER?!) The Skipper and his little buddy? ---
**Author:** ![Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirror_Image_egamI_rorriM)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/52 "2005-08-07T23:06:59Z")
But Arthur started to fall in love with Carmelita, who had the other moth suit (her father made them, and Arthur got his at a yard sale). ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/53 "2005-08-07T23:09:12Z")
On my third or fourth viewing of THE SEVEN SAMURAI a lot of gay subtext starts to leap out at me regarding young Katsushiro, including his wide-eyed crush on Kyuzo, starting right about the time he was picking flowers in the glade. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/54 "2005-08-08T00:09:35Z")
_Interview with the Vampire_ is pretty gay. But then, it’s Ann Rice, little Miss I’m a Gay Vampire Fundy Catholic Trapped In a Woman’s Body. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/55 "2005-08-08T00:56:25Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > That’s what I was going to say about the book (which I’ve not yet read) of FRIED GREEN TOMATOES. In the movie, it was subtext. In the book, I believe it was outright in the text. Reading about it was how I found out that cute redhead from all the early 70s game shows (that was all I knew Fannie Flagg from) was gay. > > I am totally sure Tolkien didn’t intend it but another vote for Legolas & Gimli. And all this time I thought the pairing was Legolas and Aragorn. I guess I need to pay closer attention to my subtexts. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/56 "2005-08-08T01:19:32Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > _Interview with the Vampire_ is pretty gay. But then, it’s Ann Rice, little Miss I’m a Gay Vampire Fundy Catholic Trapped In a Woman’s Body. It had even more subtext until Tom Cruise got to it. They pretty much had to wait until the Louis/Armand scenes to get to that. (I got into English Lit grad school on the strength of an essay on the homoerotic subtext in the novel _Interview with a Vampire_, so I was always kind of pissed at how watered down that movie was…) ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/57 "2005-08-08T01:32:07Z")
To answer a few questions: I’ve not read **The Celluloid Closet** , but a few years ago I did see a documentary of the same title, though honestly, I’ve forgotten much of it. I think it includes the scene from **Red River**. Yes, I’ve also long been aware of the Sal Mineo crush on James Dean stuff from **Rebel**. As I’m not familiar with the original book or the screenplay, does anyone know if this was supposed to be in there, or, as suggested, was it just Sal Mineo doing the “crush” looks on purpose? As many people have pointed out, some of these examples are not subtle interpretations by the actors or directors, but are rather plain, in the foreground, all along. As per my example, I was looking for the way scenes were played, as much as the way they were written. Hope that makes sense. Also, as pointed out up-thread, I think many things are just us reading something in there that was never there. It’s funny to make “To the Batpole” cracks, but really, these were comic book characters created in the 1930s, aimed at kids. Do we really think Bob Kane meant for anybody to think Batman and Robin were gay, do we really think that Fran Striker was writing about forbidden love in the Old West when he created The Lone Ranger and Tonto? I honestly do not think so. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/58 "2005-08-08T01:41:31Z")
Re: Aliens, my college roommate always thought that it was more of a “fear of pregnancy” theme. Plus, the whole “Ripley as Joan of Arc” thing in Alien 3. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/59 "2005-08-08T01:49:44Z")
> [@dotchan](#): > > Re: Aliens, my college roommate always thought that it was more of a “fear of pregnancy” theme. Your roomate would enjoy [Episode 1, Season 4](http://www.bbcamerica.com/genre/comedy_games/coupling/coupling_episode_guide_series_4.jsp) of the British series “Coupling” then. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/60 "2005-08-08T02:25:06Z")
> [@Sir Rhosis](#): > > Also, as pointed out up-thread, I think many things are just us reading something in there that was never there. It’s funny to make “To the Batpole” cracks, but really, these were comic book characters created in the 1930s, aimed at kids. Do we really think Bob Kane meant for anybody to think Batman and Robin were gay, do we really think that Fran Striker was writing about forbidden love in the Old West when he created The Lone Ranger and Tonto? I honestly do not think so. I did a tad of research on that when I was researching an essay on _The Dark Knight Returns_ for a graphic novel course. The originator of the Batman-and-Robin-are-gay thesis was Dr. Frederic Wertham, a psychiatrist whose 1953 book _Seduction of the Innocent_ was intended to whip up anti-comic hysteria. Wertham was the original comic-books-are-destroying-the-morals-of-our-children fearmonger, and to a lesser degree implanted this idea about mass media in general. He later partially recanted his ideas. He called Batman and Robin the “homosexual wish fulfilment” fantasy that two men could actually live together and have a life together. DC’s official word – what’s written in the Bat Bible that all potential Bat-writers have to read and agree to before they write – is that Batman is functionally asexual. All his sexual energies are channelled into catching criminals. In spite of Bruce Wayne’s playboy reputation, he’s actually a 29-year-old virgin. The only time he came close was with Catwoman, and he only seems to like her when they’re both in costume. Of course, if catching criminals replaces sexuality for him, we could go the next step and say that it is a form of BDSM sexuality. And with criminals of either sex, would probably make him a bisexual dom. And his special interest in Catwoman seems to make him a furry – cat costume, and all. But he’s probably not gay 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947.md?page=4)