# Gay Subtexts I Probably Missed In Films **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 7, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947 "2005-08-07T03:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/61 "2005-08-08T02:29:08Z")
> [@Hamish](#): > > Of course, if catching criminals replaces sexuality for him, we could go the next step and say that it is a form of BDSM sexuality. That would make Catwoman all the more appealing, since she’s kind of a dom and sometimes carries that whip… ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/62 "2005-08-08T02:36:50Z")
So Batman is asexual? He appears to have fathered a child in the Son of the Bat graphic novel. Quite clearly hetrosexual in that one. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/63 "2005-08-08T03:07:37Z")
I can’t believe we’ve gotten to 60+ posts and no one has mentioned the film in which one male character says about the other, “He just like any other man, only more so,” the other one says about the first, “If I were a woman, and I were not around, I should be in love with Rick,” and closes with, “Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.” ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/64 "2005-08-08T03:30:48Z")
> [@Mirror Image egamI rorriM](#): > > But Arthur started to fall in love with Carmelita, who had the other moth suit (her father made them, and Arthur got his at a yard sale). Which led The Tick to flip out on at least one occasion, screaming something about how Carmelita was soft like Arthur but in all the wrong places. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/65 "2005-08-08T03:40:26Z")
I think it was written tongue-in-cheek (ahem), but this discussion can’t be complete without **Case Sensitive** ’s [masterful deconstruction](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5918630&postcount=7) of _Toy Story_. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/66 "2005-08-08T04:41:23Z")
More text than sub-text, but I never grasped the context of the oysters/snails dialog in Spartacus between Tony Curtis and Laurence Olivier the first time I saw the fim as a kid. [Outsmart article](http://www.outsmartmagazine.com/issue/i06-02/tonycurtis.php) > [@](#): > > In the bathing scene from the1960 film Spartacus, the Roman senator Crassius (Laurence Olivier) is discussing with his young slave Antoninus (Tony Curtis) how to treat women, when he starts talking about food: > > Crassius: Do you eat oysters? > > Antoninus: Yes. > > Snails? > > No. > > Do you consider the eating of oysters to be moral and the eating of snails to be immoral? > > No, master. > > Of course not. It’s all a matter of taste, isn’t it? > > Yes, master. > > And taste is not the same as appetite and therefore not a question of morals, is it? > > It could be argured so, master. > > Um, that’ll do. My robe, Antoninus. Ah, my taste … includes both oysters and snails. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/67 "2005-08-08T06:37:52Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > And all this time I thought the pairing was Legolas and Aragorn. Let me guess. You’re a straight woman, right? ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/68 "2005-08-08T16:08:08Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > So Batman is asexual? He appears to have fathered a child in the Son of the Bat graphic novel. Quite clearly hetrosexual in that one. Functionally asexual. In spite of my tongue-in-cheek humour above, since the only time in main continuity last I heard, he’d only got close with Catwoman. Of course, my information on that is pretty old, and I haven’t read any recent Batman (it’s from a scholarly article dating to the early 90s), so they could have changed it. Also, I don’t know Son of the Bat, but if it’s AU continuity, the writers may have been given more leeway than is usual. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/69 "2005-08-08T16:38:46Z")
Re: Batman - I will have to read up, but IIRC, Robin was introduced at the request of DC (or whatever it was called at the time) to increase readership - they were targeting kids, so they thought having a kid would work. And, again IIRC, it did work - sales increased dramatically. So, bottom line: Robin was not an invention of Kane (or Bill Finger, who wrote the original Batman stuff and is often overlooked for some reason). I am all for gay subtext if it is intended and it adds to better understanding of a story - the Spartacus quote above is a perfect example - but in this case, I don’t believe that subtext is there or was meant to be. It was a simple marketing ploy from a more innocent time. Okay - let the laughter begin and show me how wrong I am… ---
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/70 "2005-08-08T22:53:12Z")
Sorry for the hijack, but Batman has had several sexual relationships, most recently with Catwoman. _The Haunting of Hill House_ was full of lesbian subtext and was really just a big metaphor for sexual repression in general. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/71 "2005-08-09T03:58:00Z")
> [@Hamish](#): > > It had even more subtext until Tom Cruise got to it. They pretty much had to wait until the Louis/Armand scenes to get to that. > > (I got into English Lit grad school on the strength of an essay on the homoerotic subtext in the novel _Interview with a Vampire_, so I was always kind of pissed at how watered down that movie was…) Subtext hell-in the book, it was right there out in the open. Basically, all Ann Rice characters are bisexual. (BTW, I loathe Ann Rice, although I liked the first two books in the Mayfair series). In the movie though, it had to be extremely watered down, as you said. So there’s only a little bit of a hint. And this IS a thread about films. But if we can include tv shows, I’d like to nominate the original _He-Man: Masters of the Universe_. I can’t believe how blatant the homoerotica is, now. Looking back, that completely flew over our heads when we were kids, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/72 "2005-08-09T04:26:23Z")
What? Secret gay subtext in **He-Man**? C’mon, that’s just… Hm. “I am **Adam** , Prince of Eternia and \*\*keeper of the secrets \*\* of Castle Greyskull! This is Cringer… **my fearless friend!** **Fabulous secret powers** were revealed to me the day **I held aloft my magic sword** and said… ‘By the power of Greyskull!’ I have the poooooooower!” “ **Only a few others share this secret** … The Sorceress, **Man-At-Arms \*\* and Orko.** Together\*\* we defend Castle Greyskull from **the evil forces** of Skeletor.” ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/73 "2005-08-09T17:28:50Z")
> [@Mirror Image egamI rorriM](#): > > But Arthur started to fall in love with Carmelita, who had the other moth suit (her father made them, and Arthur got his at a yard sale). Yeah, Arthur was in love with Carmelita. Like Tom Cruise is in love with Katie Holmes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/74 "2005-08-09T18:52:06Z")
**Pretty In Pink**. James Spader’s obsessive interest in Andrew McCarthy’s dating life, and the latter’s need for the former’s approval… really, they should’ve just gone to the prom with each other. (Spader would definitely lead.) A bonus: Molly Ringwald and Jon Cryer would’ve been free to be the perfect oddball couple. I think a lot of people don’t get the unfolding revelation about the “Withnail Montague” character from **Withnail & I** , either. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/75 "2005-08-09T18:55:22Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Let me guess. You’re a straight woman, right? Yes. Does it show? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/76 "2005-08-09T18:58:19Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > (Sam marries a woman when they come back, people!) Can you see how this might not be a complete refutation of the possibility of a homosexual relationship between Sam and Frodo? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/77 "2005-08-09T19:04:01Z")
> [@Hamish](#): > > DC’s official word – what’s written in the Bat Bible that all potential Bat-writers have to read and agree to before they write – is that Batman is functionally asexual. All his sexual energies are channelled into catching criminals. In spite of Bruce Wayne’s playboy reputation, he’s actually a 29-year-old virgin. The only time he came close was with Catwoman, and he only seems to like her when they’re both in costume. Obviously, D.C. forgot to interview Silver St. Cloud (possibly Batman’s most torrid affair) and Talia (daughter of Ra’s al-Ghul, whose bore Batman a son), among others, who would be surprised to learn such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/78 "2005-08-09T19:08:55Z")
> [@The Scrivener](#): > > I think a lot of people don’t get the unfolding revelation about the “Withnail Montague” character from **Withnail & I** , either. Are you talking about Withnail or about Uncle Monty? I thought Uncle Monty’s pursuit of … uh … “I” (did he even have a name?) was pretty obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/79 "2005-08-09T19:09:41Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Yes. Does it show? Quite. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/80 "2005-08-09T19:15:48Z")
> [@Cookeze](#): > > Alien > > This film makes ample use of the fear of non-coital sex. The character played by John Hurt, Kane, is attacked by the creature which, unknown to him and the rest of the crew, impregnates him by way of oral sex. Then he dies during the unnatural childbirth. > > The issue of this homosexual birth then goes about killing all of the crew except the woman, Ripley, and her “cat.” > > Since this movie came out in 1979, I always thought it was a great foreshadowing of the AIDS epidemic and I’ve wondered if perhaps there were rumors rumbling within the gay community that everything was not alright which the writers expressed in the screenplay. That’s an intriguing idea but inaccurate. **Alien** had early-mid-'70’s _stoner_ roots; Dan O’Bannon was working out some of the core plot elements on John Carpenter’s famous student-film-turned-cult-classic **Dark Star**. Only then, the “alien” was a big, red, bouncy beach ball with feet! 😃 re. **The Maltese Falcon** , the “Joe Cairo” character had, IIRC, a lavender-scented (and colored?) handkerchief. He might also have smelled of violet or lavender-scented water. Lavender was code for gay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947.md?page=5)