# Gay Subtexts I Probably Missed In Films **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 7, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947 "2005-08-07T03:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/101 "2005-08-12T18:11:52Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > I took any obsession of Michael’s toward Kiefer more as an alpha male thing at first, and later a “kill the head vampire” thing. I read it as longing, too. You’re totally right about the younger brother, though. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/102 "2005-08-12T19:07:14Z")
> [@supervenusfreak](#): > > _Ben Hur_ > > I know, I know. Gay subtext in a Charlton Heston movie? Watch the scene where Ben Hur greets Messala. **William Wyler, the director, was gay**. He told Stephen Boyd to play the scene as if Messala and Ben Hur were long lost lovers, but not to tell Heston. 😉 Bolding mine—Cite on Wyler’s homosexuality? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/103 "2005-08-12T19:36:15Z")
Batman is asexual, except every couple of years, when the DC editors let him have a dalliance to complicate his life further. It’s like Pon Farr, but for vigilantes. Re : The Tick and Arthur. The cartoon version. Arthur’s straight. Carmelita is not a “beard” - he really, really loves her. The Tick - I think of him as essentially asexual. Sure, he can be petty and jealous, especially where “his” sidekick is concerned - but that’s because the Tick is emotionally a child, and children are possessive. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/104 "2005-08-12T23:18:08Z")
> [@cookeze](#): > > **Alien** > > This film makes ample use of the fear of non-coital sex. The character played by John Hurt, Kane, is attacked by the creature which, unknown to him and the rest of the crew, impregnates him by way of oral sex. Then he dies during the unnatural childbirth. > > The issue of this homosexual birth then goes about killing all of the crew except the woman, Ripley, and her “cat.” Ripley wasn’t the only woman on the ship, though… there was also Lambert (Veronica Cartwright). ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/105 "2005-08-13T00:59:06Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Bolding mine—Cite on Wyler’s homosexuality? :dubious: I’m not the person you asked, and true he was married a couple of times and had kids, but in 1934-35 he produced [Glamour](http://imdb.com/title/tt0025181/), [The Good Fairy](http://imdb.com/title/tt0026424/) and [The Gay Divorcee](http://imdb.com/title/tt0026400/) all back-to-back… Hell-ooooo! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/106 "2005-08-13T01:10:37Z")
Round about the time **X-Men 2** came out, I read a review of it in one of our weekly papers suggesting that the scene where Magneto is trying to get Pyro on his side is played as a seduction. The author of the article even went so far as to call it “homophobic” (which I didn’t see at all). The dialogue from that movie, though, was stolen right out of coming out stories and those _Now That You Know_-type books you’re supposed to give your parents when you come out. But that’s more metaphor than subtext. > [@CandidGamera](#): > > Batman is asexual, except every couple of years, when the DC editors let him have a dalliance to complicate his life further. It’s like Pon Farr, but for vigilantes. 😃 (Insert comment about needing a new keyboard here…) ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/107 "2005-08-13T06:56:40Z")
> [@Hamish](#): > > The dialogue from that movie, though, was stolen right out of coming out stories and those _Now That You Know_-type books you’re supposed to give your parents when you come out. But that’s more metaphor than subtext. Yeah, the “gay=mutant” metaphor was played pretty strongly, what with the “Have you ever tried… not being a mutant?” line the mother delivers and other similar lines. But that’s just common sense, I think. Given the X-Men world, it would have been difficult not to draw similarities to homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Giant\_Spongess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@Giant\_Spongess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giant_Spongess)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/108 "2005-08-13T07:31:03Z")
You were saying about [the Tick?](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/kemspit/other%20crap/spoon.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/109 "2005-08-14T21:29:03Z")
> [@Sir Rhosis](#): > > Yes, I’ve also long been aware of the Sal Mineo crush on James Dean stuff from **Rebel**. As I’m not familiar with the original book or the screenplay, does anyone know if this was supposed to be in there, or, as suggested, was it just Sal Mineo doing the “crush” looks on purpose? _Rebel Without a Cause_ was an original screenplay by Stewart Stern. As to whether Plato’s crush on Jim was intentional: Sal Mineo was bisexual, James Dean was bisexual, and director Nicholas Ray was bisexual. **supervenusfreak** , you’ve got your _Ben-Hur_ story wrong. Gore Vidal, not the hetero William Wyler, told Stephen Boyd to play the scene as it he were in love with Charlton Heston. ---
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/110 "2005-08-14T21:43:11Z")
Ok, so I gotta ask… what about Bert and Ernie? I know it’s not in a film and I know nobody probably missed it, but it’s got to be the longest running and funniest (and sweetest) gay subtext ever hasn’t it? mm ---
**Author:** ![supervenusfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@supervenusfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supervenusfreak)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/111 "2005-08-14T23:03:05Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > **supervenusfreak** , you’ve got your _Ben-Hur_ story wrong. Gore Vidal, not the hetero William Wyler, told Stephen Boyd to play the scene as it he were in love with Charlton Heston. LOL. That’s right! I got the two confused. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/112 "2005-08-15T13:00:54Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > **supervenusfreak** , you’ve got your _Ben-Hur_ story wrong. Gore Vidal, not the hetero William Wyler, told Stephen Boyd to play the scene as it he were in love with Charlton Heston. The way I remember the story from the movie _The Celluloid Closet_, Vidal was hired as a script doctor and he came up with the idea, but Wyler handled the communications with the actors, because he wanted to make sure that Heston didn’t hear about it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/113 "2005-08-15T13:10:26Z")
I’m still waiting for an explication of the Smurfs. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/114 "2005-08-15T17:28:30Z")
Just saw “Strangers On a Train” this past weekend… Wow Bruno was G-A-Y. Maybe at the time he was just seeing as an oddball lunatic… but now… He reads as blatantly homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/115 "2005-08-15T18:14:09Z")
> [@Push You Down](#): > > Just saw “Strangers On a Train” this past weekend… Wow Bruno was G-A-Y. > > Maybe at the time he was just seeing as an oddball lunatic… but now… He reads as blatantly homosexual. Hitchcock intended he be considered homosexual, but I doubt most audiences at the time realized it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/116 "2005-08-15T18:38:30Z")
Lowering the tone significantly, here, but I saw again _Killer Klowns from Outer Space_ the other day. There’s a scene in which the asshole chief of police from a small town near a college campus has hauled a couple of clearly non-intoxicated kids into the station for “public drunkeness” after catching them in the park with a bottle of wine. I’d seen the movie several times as a kid, but this was the first time I realized, “Two guys, with a bottle of wine, alone at night in a public park… shit, he wasn’t hassling them because of the _wine_!” Now that I think about it, this also casts a different light on the inevitable demise of the asshole police chief: one of the killer klowns turns him into a hand-puppet. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/117 "2005-08-15T18:56:14Z")
Interestingly, the gay character in _Strangers on a Train_ was played by a straight actor, and the straight character was played by a gay actor. That Hitchcock! ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947/118 "2005-08-18T02:28:10Z")
Something that y’all probably won’t see stateside, but the Chinese novels [Outlaws of the Marsh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Margin) and [Red Chamber Dreams](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_of_the_Red_Chamber) both have a whole lot of Subtext. I was watching a TV adaptation of _Marsh_ and I remember having a discussion with my mom about how gay a lot of the characters seemed. (Of course, for a story that emphasized brotherhood and portrayed women as either evil or very tomboyish would exude a lot of wonky vibes.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-subtexts-i-probably-missed-in-films/315947.md?page=5)