# Gay Teens: A Debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378 "2003-02-11T17:11:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/341 "2003-02-21T20:40:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by irishgirl \* > pun, can i have some clarification please? > > Are you going to put a list of names on a poster, with a sort of > “interested? email [xxxPRIDE@xxx.net](mailto:xxxPRIDE@xxx.net)”. Right now I’m planning on assembling a list of people (some very out and famous, some not so much) and saying, at the bottom, something like "Should you be on this list? Or are you wondering what it is? Email [email addy I haven’t made yet]" > [@](#): > > Or are you going to email these people individually with a > “LGBT? email xxx for info” type message? As some of them are no longer alive (Whitman, among others), I don’t think that would be particularly fruitful;) > [@](#): > > Personally i can’t see anything confrontational with a few > “LGBT student resources available at xxxx” posters or stickers, or even a mass email to the student body. It might help you to know that I am officially In The Boonies. There has never been a Pride organization at this school. B (fiancee) has friends who can be outwardly homophobic (and we’ve discussed it before and such. She doesn’t tolerate it when she sees it). And these are some of her more open-minded friends. When I told some of her friends about my idea for a Pride Alliance at this school, they were immediately worried about physical violence toward anyone who went. It’s an issue whether I like it or not, I think. So for now I’m trying to keep things safe and, more importantly (to me), keep things private in case there are people who want to know more but don’t want to be _seen_ at a Pride meeting. > [@](#): > > Does your school have an LGBT officer? Maybe you could liaise with them about how to spread the word. Not as far as I know. There, as far as I can tell, has never been a Pride group here. > [@](#): > > Even if you don’t want to paper the entire school, perhaps a few leaflets/flyers left in the student counselling service offices or LGBT society rooms would be helpful? It would be if there were a LGBT room:) There’s _nothing_ here. And I’m not just saying that to be dramatic. I have yet to see any sort of resource for LGBT people down here. I’ll check with the student services people, though. > [@](#): > > I’m not really sure what you’re up against, my college has an LGBT officer and society, a specific counsellour for sexuality issues and an annual Rainbow week with activites such as “Lesbian Lucheons” and free entry to Dublin’s gay clubs. Quite simply, if there is a resource for LGBT people down here, it’s as elusive as an invisible pink unicorn. The nearest Pride group is at Virginia Tech, which is exit 118 on I-81. Just for reference, that’s about 200 miles from here. > [@](#): > > Do you have any similar resources to work with? I’ve been looking for them, and have yet to find any. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist, just that they’re _very_ difficult to find (in that, again, I haven’t found any). And that doesn’t say much for their efficacy. I’m sitting here, in fact, with a card passed out at student orientation at same school with a list of services they provide: Case Management Marital and Family Counseling Individual and Group Psychotherapy Intensive In-Home Services Crisis Services Prevention Services Family and Group Therapy Pharmacotherapy Medication Monitoring Consultation Services Child and Adolescent Services Support Services Early Intervention Services Psochological Assessments Therapeutic Foster Care Residential Facilities parenting Classes Divorce Education Project LINK Anger Management Moral Reconation Therapy (MRT) Level III VASAP The only two I could even possibly imagine related to GLBT issues are “Child and Adolescent Services” and “Support Services”. There’s also “Lee County Child and Adolescent Center”. But again these things are so vague that even if they were offered up to LGBT people, it’s almost impossible to find unless you’re told “search for this thing that won’t seem to have anything to do with you.” And who is going to tell them? The woman who came to talk about the services they offer didn’t discuss any of the things on the list I just typed out. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/342 "2003-02-21T23:02:59Z")
I sent you an email that I wonder if you got, Patrick. I’ve run two Queer-youth groups before, and if I can be of any help or advice, please let me know. I’d be glad to help. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/343 "2003-02-22T03:48:31Z")
I did get it, matt. I sent a reply, or at least I remember sending one. Perhaps it got lost somewhere in cyberia. I’ll send it again shortly. The email I got from you was not from your hotmail addy but one with a different affix, and did not have “[SDMB]” in the subject header. If you want/have time, I’d love some feedback on what I’ve posted today and yesterday re: starting that group. I think I’m basically looking at a several-month process. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/344 "2003-02-22T13:24:28Z")
I’ll be responding to you today. Best of luck. ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/345 "2003-02-22T20:32:07Z")
This evening I am raising a toast to my friend Daryl, who came out of the closet to his parents last week. They are fundamentalists. They did not take it well. He killed himself last night. I hope they’re happy. They went from telling him that they no longer had a son to no longer having a son. I’m so upset right now I can hardly stand it. Another day, another statisitic. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/346 "2003-02-22T22:14:08Z")
oh no. andygirl i’m so sorry for him, and you, and all the people who loved him. and unbelievably angry. i don’t understand how anyone could do that to their child. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/347 "2003-02-22T22:19:12Z")
Sitting here trying to come up with some sort of an intelligent response. Serves me right. That’s just … :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/348 "2003-02-22T22:26:44Z")
And this is why I fight, despite what some of my co-religionists tell me. No one should _ever_ have to go through this. **Andygirl** , I’m so very sorry, as well as angry. Please, e-mail me if you need to, and in the meantime I’ll raise a glass to Daryl and to those who have died for others’ beliefs. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/349 "2003-02-22T22:39:16Z")
**Andygirl** , I am so deeply sorry. My prayers are with him and with you. His parents will need to look elsewhere, though – though I know it’s wrong of me, I cannot bring myself to feel anything but loathing for them. :mad: It is precisely things like this that make what this thread was devoted to discussing so vitally important. Thank you, all who have contributed, and suggested ways we can help. Now let’s do all we can to prevent there ever being another tragedy like **Daryl** ’s. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/350 "2003-02-22T23:06:28Z")
Just a short personal note to **Crafter Man** : You may have been following this thread. If so, you’ve seen what **Andygirl** posted. Daryl is no skin off your nose; you never knew him. Ten years down the road it could be one of your girls lying there, having been unable to keep on living when her parents think she’s an abomination, and so having killed herself. Think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/351 "2003-02-22T23:29:48Z")
{{{{ **Andygirl** }}}}} My heart is with you right now. That’s horrible. :mad: ☹ ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/352 "2003-02-22T23:32:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\*I’m really not interested in debating our decision; you’re not going to change my mind and I’m not going to change yours. I simply want to know if anyone would support a law making it a crime for us to teach this to our children. That’s all. \*\* Just thought I’d let you know, **Crafter\_Man** , that you’re not the only one around here who believes homosexuality is a sin. But you’re right. They won’t change our minds and we won’t change theirs. And I suspect there may be a few people in this country who’d love to make it a crime to tell our children that this conduct is wrong but I pray that never happens. If it does, there goes our freedom. Incindently, I’m very sorry to hear about the young person who committed suicide. His parents could have and should have still loved him, without approving. There would have been things to have been worked out, but that’s another story. Anyway, I’m sorry to hear about this. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/353 "2003-02-22T23:36:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Just thought I’d let you know, Crafter\_Man, that you’re not the only one around here who believes homosexuality is a sin. But you’re right. They won’t change our minds and we won’t change theirs. And I suspect there may be a few people in this country who’d love to make it a crime to tell our children that this conduct is wrong but I pray that never happens. If it does, there goes our freedom. Again, you are posting without facts. You are perfectly free to teach your children that people like me are filthy vermin who do not deserve civil rights, who ought to be disciminated againat, who deserve being beaten up and ostracized because we’re so very sinful. But don’t think for one second that there will not be opposing voices. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/354 "2003-02-22T23:40:01Z")
Sorry, **His** , but that’s about as cold as the people who told you that you should have stayed with your abusive first husband. I didn’t agree with them, and I don’t agree with you. I don’t want to impose yet another hijack, but I want a clearcut definition from you: _what is this “homosexuality” that is a sin by your standards?_ We’ve done orientation vs. act, and whether commitment makes a difference, before. What evilness was on this kid, that his family thought him so loathsome that they disowned him? I’m not letting go of this one – you’re making a statement about what you believe – define your terms. Because people saying things like you just said are killing kids – the proof of that is about ten posts up from this one. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/355 "2003-02-22T23:50:18Z")
Sigghhh…I guess this gets rather confusing. When I hear the term “someone is gay” or “someone is a homosexual” I usually tend to assume that means they’re engaging in gay sex. Perhaps that’s not always the case, but it’s what I think when someone says “I’m gay.” It just comes automatically to mind that that means they must be committing the acts. Perhaps I shouldn’t think that. Should I ask, “do you committ the actual sex” or “are you just experiencing the orientation?” Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps it would help if someone who confessed to being gay also said whether they have sex, but then I’d be told “that’s none of your business.” And it probably isn’t my business unless they’re wanting my opinion on it. Anyway, you’re entitled to your opinion that I’m a cold person. I merely wanted to let **Crafter\_Man** know he wasn’t alone in his belief, that’s all. Also, I am sorry about the young man’s death whether you believe me or not and no I don’t want to get into what his parents (assuming they’re Christians who beleive the Bible) should have done with the situation. That’s probably an entire different thread topic. It’s complicated. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/356 "2003-02-23T00:04:29Z")
**Andygirl** , I sympathize with your pain, not least because I came very close to doing what your friend Daryl did. **His4Ever** , it doesn’t matter whether a gay person is haviong sex or not; one is not more queer for having homosexual relations. Even if one were celibate, the orientation would still remain. > [@](#): > > Also, I am sorry about the young man’s death whether you believe me or not and no I don’t want to get into what his parents (assuming they’re Christians who beleive the Bible) should have done with the situation. That’s probably an entire different thread topic. It’s complicated. It’s not the least bit complicated, The parents’ proper response should have been, “Honey, you know our faith’s teachings about homosexuality, but no matter what, you’re our child and we love you.” The fundamentalist Christians’ cold, inflexible attitudes and disapproval cause gay teens to choose death over ostracism by those whose support and love they need. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/357 "2003-02-23T00:26:16Z")
**His4Ever** , I’m heterosexual. Does that mean to you that I’m automatically having sex? Why the converse then? Also, why is it more acceptable for me to look on David Copperfield with lust in my heart than **gobear**? The emotion’s the same, as are the odds of being able to act on it, unless **gobear** knows something he’s not telling me. Come on, am I the only person in the country who’s not having sex?! If so, what am I doing wrong? 😉 Seccuality, to me, is simply part of who a person is, both in orientation and degree like other traits such as curiousity, intelligence, artistic talent, etc. I have a talent for programming computers, and I’m good enough at it that I could write a virus. I choose not to because of it’s immoral, although I do use that talent for other purposes, hopefully for pay soon. I have a sex drive, too, which I don’t act on unless it’s in the appropriate context. Used inappropriately, with a bit of bad luck, I suppose I could also use that to spread viruses, but again, it’s immoral. Of course, unlike programming, the law frowns on me making money off my sexuality. Another young man has died because of someone else’s beliefs. The tragedy is he won’t be the last to do so. I wonder, would his parents have disowned him if he’d committed adultery or gotten a divorce? Would they have disowned him for coveting something someone else had? Perhaps they might have done so if he’d committed a theft. What is so awful about this particular sin, mentioned in two or three places in the Bible, that it should cost them their son even before he killed himself? And where is God’s mercy? CJ ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/358 "2003-02-23T00:27:54Z")
And how on earth did I manage to misspell sexuality “seccuality”?! Maybe it has been too long at that! 😉 :sigh!: CJ ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/359 "2003-02-23T00:33:14Z")
Sorry for a bit of Christian witness here, but I feel mandated to put in two Bible quotes, to be read together: > [@](#): > > …the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like unto it: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. (Matt. 22:38-40) > > …And the King will answer and say unto them, “Inasmuch as you did it unto one of the least of these My brethren, you did it unto Me.” (Matthew 26:40) ---
**Author:** ![linguist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/48db29/32.png) [@linguist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/linguist)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378/360 "2003-02-23T00:41:38Z")
“Perhaps it would help if someone who confessed to being gay also said whether they have sex, but then I’d be told “that’s none of your business.” And it probably isn’t my business unless they’re wanting my opinion on it.” When I came out to my parents, I was telling my parents that I realized I had a trait. I was also a “virgin”. I didn’t even know any other gay people. And it would be another 15 years before I figured how to reconcile myself with who I was, before I so much as held another guy’s hand. “Coming out” is about telling the people you care about who you are, about your deepest feelings. Is it possible that a gay teenager is also being sexually active? Sure. And the parents’ reaction should be EXACTLY the same as it would be if their non-gay teenager were sexually active. I won’t bore you with what I would tell a sexually active teenager about responsibility, safety, maturity and the rest if I were in a position of responsibility. When my partner’s 15-year old nephew came out to us (long before he dared tell his own parents), I gave him quite a lecture. I am sure you’d do just fine in such a situation. But that is NOT what coming out is about. It is about courage, about risking being judged harshly, about honesty and integrity. My lecture to that 15-year old included unconditional love and support. While I am sure that the two things --orientation and sexual activity-- often get discussed together at “coming out” sessions with parents, they really are two different issues. I suspect there are people out there who don’t think there’s any problem with teenagers being sexually active. However, I doubt that you’re going to get told by anyone on this board that it’s inappropriate for a parent to talk to ANY kid, gay or non-gay, about abstinence, maturity and waiting. The frustration and, in the case being discussed, anger comes into play when adults don’t realize that what a frightened gay teen needs is unconditional love, support and TOTAL acceptance of who he or she IS. Not what he or she DOES. What he or she IS. Anything short of that is highly irresponsible. This is not the first time it has led to incredibly tragic results. Why wouldn’t it? It’s a direct act of rejection that the kid can do nothing about. I apologize for getting worked up. I believe there is a moral imperative at work here, only it is decidedly not to tell a frightened teenager who is being courageous that he’s a wicked sinner for being so brave. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-teens-a-debate/154378.md?page=19)