# Gay = unnatural? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2002, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750 "2002-10-24T21:39:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/21 "2002-10-25T21:49:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Turning to a side point, doesn’t the prostate feel good to promulgate elimination? It also feels good during anal sex. You can ejaculate from your penis (not simply an orgasm but a really really good orgasm) from a good prostate massage. What is its primary function “supposed” to be? ---
**Author:** ![ICP9991](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@ICP9991](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICP9991)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/22 "2002-10-25T22:05:52Z")
OK, let me start by saying I’m not a fan of gay people, and I don’t think its natural. Natural in the way that animals were born to reproduce, nobody teaches animals how to have sex, its **instinct** , so gay people are born kinda mentally retarded (there has to be a better way to say that) because they don’t have desires to further the species…yes they could father children, but they aren’t attracted to women. That’s my opinion, feel free to shoot me down 😃 Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/23 "2002-10-25T22:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Natural in the way that animals were born to reproduce, nobody teaches animals how to have sex, its instinct, so gay people are born kinda mentally retarded… Let’s see. Humans are animals. Nobody teaches humans (animals) how to have sex, its instinct, so gay people are perfectly natural; else how did the first one learn to do it? ---
**Author:** ![ICP9991](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@ICP9991](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ICP9991)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/24 "2002-10-26T19:44:07Z")
**O\_o** It ain’t instinct to have sex with men…if you’r e a man ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/25 "2002-10-26T19:52:11Z")
> [@](#): > > It ain’t instinct to have sex with men…if you’re a man Shows what you know. When I see a handsome, muscular guy, I have as visceral a sexual response as you would if you saw a busty, wanton nymph. My response is most definitely instinctual and wholly out of my conscious control. Now why this is so, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/26 "2002-10-26T20:36:15Z")
\*\*ICP9991 wrote: Natural in the way that animals were born to reproduce, nobody teaches animals how to have sex, its instinct, so gay people are born kinda mentally retarded (there has to be a better way to say that) because they don’t have desires to further the species…yes they could father children, but they aren’t attracted to women. \*\* So you’re saying that the only reason for sex is procreation. If so, any time you have sex for other than procreative purposes, it’s unnatural. How many children do you have? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/27 "2002-10-27T05:40:40Z")
Sex is only natural if it isn’t done correctly. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/28 "2002-10-27T08:08:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ICP9991 \* > **so gay people are born kinda mentally retarded (there has to be a better way to say that) because they don’t have desires to further the species…yes they could father children, but they aren’t attracted to women.** That’s funny, every gay woman I know _is_ attracted to women. ---
**Author:** ![Kegg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Kegg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kegg)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/29 "2002-10-27T10:38:23Z")
All I have to say is unnatural for who ?(or is it whom?) ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/30 "2002-10-27T13:12:06Z")
Leaving aside definitions, just because something is unnatural, doesn’t make it wrong; just because something is natural, doesn’t make it right. Hi-jacking the thread slightly, I’ve never understood why some people are so keen to prove that homosexuality is or isn’t genetically based (or influenced). Neither way would prove it right or wrong. If it is proven that pedophilia could be caused by genes, that wouldn’t make it right. ---
**Author:** ![Mammie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/49beb7/32.png) [@Mammie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mammie)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/31 "2002-10-27T16:05:39Z")
“Homosexual behavior exists, not merely in humans, but in several animal species as well and therefore it’s natural. The question I suppose we must ask is, Is homosexuality harmful or benign?” gobear, could you expand on this a little? What animal species practice homosexual behavior other than the human animal? I’m just curious about this because I’ve never heard this before. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/32 "2002-10-27T17:32:09Z")
Mammie, homosexual behavor has been observed in hundreds of other species, especially mammals. There are exclusively gay sheep, monkeys, dogs and dozens of other mammals. Here is a link which talks about it. [http://www.sciencenews.org/sn\_arc97/1\_4\_97/bob1.htm](http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc97/1_4_97/bob1.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Mammie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/49beb7/32.png) [@Mammie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mammie)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/33 "2002-10-27T23:51:09Z")
Thanks, Diogenes. I must have led a sheltered life. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/34 "2002-10-28T01:47:52Z")
Don’t forget the penguins in the Central Park zoo. [http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/03/08/gay\_penguins/](http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/03/08/gay_penguins/) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/35 "2002-10-28T01:52:44Z")
Oops, not Central Park, Brooklyn someplace. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/36 "2002-10-29T08:27:21Z")
Not only is it unnatural, it’s _evil!_ (Mmmm… evil…) Esprix [Is it time to change my sig back yet?] ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/37 "2002-10-29T13:27:47Z")
(warning: mild hijack) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*It’s not unreasonable that God is operating much as might a scientifically oriented kid who buys a couple of hamsters and appropriate stuff to keep them in, feed them, etc., and then leaves them alone to observe what they’ll do in their new environment. \*\* Doesn’t this rather contradict with supposed onmiscience? Why would a god need to conduct an experiment to observe what he purportedly already knows? ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/38 "2002-10-29T16:59:58Z")
\ **Kegg** , if you can replace “whom” with “him” in the sentence and have it still be correct, then you’ve chosen correctly. If not, it’s “who”. \ ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750/39 "2002-10-29T17:55:25Z")
Good question, **Kelly**. I’m not out to erect philosophical constructs which one must accept dogmatically and uncritically; I’m commenting on hypotheses regarding an entity that I know and follow. Nonetheless, the paradox you identify is much like “the stone that He can’t lift” – it involves an accepted self-limitation: “If I as God create entities with free will, self-awareness, the ability to experience the consequences of their actions, and limitations on what they can know and do, then I may learn something new about the nature of existence that I by Myself cannot know, because My sole frame of reference regarding it is My omnipotent, omniscient Self.” Sounds like grist for a new thread, if you want to pursue it. BTW, the God I believe in does not regard gayness as inherently sinful, merely a condition to be dealt with morally or not, like a tendency to be abrasive, to be introverted, to drink too much, to spend time (perhaps too much time) on the Internet, etc. – you deal with it and choose what behavior seems right to you. The penguins were, I believe, in Prospect Park Zoo in Brooklyn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-unnatural/133750.md?page=1)