# "Gay" Used to Mean "Stupid" and the Offense Therein **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2001, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132 "2001-07-20T01:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/1 "2001-07-20T01:37:27Z")
Well, I searched to make sure that this hadn’t been argued about in the last 90 days, but go back much further and the word “gay” gets a bit too many hits to sift through. So my apologies if I’m beating a dead horse. The argument started in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=78644) Pit thread. (Imagine that, an argument going from the Pit to GD, for once). Rather than hijack it any further, I decided to move it here. I’ll quote all the relevant posts, and let the debate go where it will. **MrWhy** said: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Crunchy Frog_ > > **I’d also like to add that I know the term “gay” is being used commonly to describe something as being lame, weak, stupid, etc. We do not like this term. Using “gay” in that sense, whether you realize it or not, is homophobic and it implies homosexuality is wrong or stupid. Try not to spread slurs across the boards and refrain from using “gay” in that manner.** > > I’ve seen this on the boards a bit recently and I do think it is a little bit too PC. > > Words do change their meaning. Or have different meanings in different contexts. Gay, of course, used to primarily mean happy. Now it primarily means homosexual. In the future (now?) it might mean dumb. > > If I said something was done with “gay abandon” would you think it meant “homosexual recklessness”? No. Context is important. > > And saying “Using “gay” in that sense, whether you realize it or not, is homophobic”, strikes me as false. If you do not mean it to be related to the homosexual sense of the word, then how can it be homophobic?. It is entirely unrelated to sexual preference. > > Where I live, “gay”, in the sense of dumb, is said primarily by gay people, and nobody is really offended. It is more of a gentle dig. > > It seems a bit like “niggardly” to me. It sounds the same, but that does not make it the same. > > BTW, I’m not directing this specifically at you Crunchy Frog. Your post just happened to be the one I read when I had time to respond. To which **Primaflora** responded: > [@](#): > > Mr Why > > You might want to do some research into the derivation of the word ‘nigger’ and the word ‘niggardly’. Have you noticed they are spelt differently? ‘Nigger’ comes from the Spanish word for black, negro. ‘Niggardly’ comes from the Scandinavian, or from the Swedish word ‘nygg’. > > So in short they have f\*\*\*\*(language edited for GD)\* all to do with each other which is why niggardly is a perfectly useful word with no racist overtones. > > Do I need to explain just why ‘gay’ used in a derogatory sense is not all right? Or can you figure it out for yourself from the previous clues? At this point, I jumped on the bandwagon with: > [@](#): > > I have some issues with what you posted, MrWhy. I’ll address them here, but please don’t feel that I’m “kicking you in the teeth.” > > My biggest issue with you logic is that “gay” still carries the conotation of homosexuality when used as an insult. It is easier to distinguish between “happy” gay and “homosexual” gay in normal speak since they have to almost completely opposite conotations. However, the line gets a bit shadier when you’re distinguishing between “homosexual” gay and “stupid” gay. Both meanings have been and still are used as derogatory insults, so it’s almost impossible to tell whether someone who says “You’re so gay” is taking a cut at homosexuals in general, or at your intelligence. And the evolution of the “stupid” meaning seems to have been pulled pretty directly from its homosexual connotations. I’m not sure whether I’m expressing myself well enough, but I thought I’d give it a shot. > Also, the reason that “gay” is not like “niggardly” is that “niggardly” and “n\*\*ger” are two seperate words, with two seperate meanings. It’s harder to distinguish between “gay” and “gay,” though, especially in writing. > Tell me if I need to clear anything up, because I don’t know whether I was thorough enough. **MrWhy** came back with this: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Primaflora_ > > **So in short they have f** \* all to do with each other which is why niggardly is a perfectly useful word with no racist overtones.\*\* > > Which is why I said “a bit like” when comparing the two scenarios. The “bit” I meant was that people seem to be offended when no offence is meant in the sense it is taken. > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\*Do I need to explain just why ‘gay’ used in a derogatory sense is not all right? Or can you figure it out for yourself from the previous clues? \*\* > > Perhaps I did not explain myself well enough. I did not mean to say that it was OK to use homophobic remarks as insults. I was trying to point out that we may be overreacting to what was not meant as a homophobic insult. > > Agian, where I live, it simply isn’t a homophobic remark. It may be different where you live. **Crunchy Frog** had the last post, saying: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by MrWhy_ > > **Agian, where I live, it simply isn’t a homophobic remark. It may be different where you live.** > > But isn’t it derived from homophobic sentiments? > > Anyway, that’s mighty white of you to clarify. And I don’t mean that in a racist way or anything, regardless of the roots of the saying. So, there you have it. This debate already has a running start, and I guess this thread will take it from here. ---
**Author:** ![MrWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/2 "2001-07-20T01:43:51Z")
Jester, I answered you in the other thread before I saw that you had started this one. Here is my post: Jester, I think we actually have quite a bit of common ground in our positions. I have no problem with the fact that sometimes, indeed probably most of the time, calling someone gay is meant as a slight on homosexuality. I would just like to allow for the fact that it is not always the case. Sometimes it can be a friendly insult. We have to be careful not to let knee jerk, PC reactions get in the way of understanding what people are really trying to say. I’ll try to give an example to illustrate what I mean: It used to be the case that calling someone a “bastard” was a reasonably decent insult. Now, I can happily call my friend, who has just beat me in chess or whatever “complete bastard”, and no real offence is meant or taken. It is an insult, but very mild. In fact I could call him, a “cocksucker”, and no offence would be taken. “Cocksucker” is a pretty insulting term in some circumstances (because of its gay connotations, so it may be a better example for the present discussion). But context is everything. I believe that “gay” is in the early stages of the same type of transition, from “harsh” insult to “friendly” insult. And we should not always assume the worst. As I said earlier, this may genuinely be different elsewhere. I do live in what some would call a “gay ghetto”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/3 "2001-07-20T01:51:44Z")
> [@](#): > > I would just like to allow for the fact that it is not always the case. Sometimes it can be a friendly insult. We have to be careful not to let knee jerk, PC reactions get in the way of understanding what people are really trying to say. It’s all a matter of interpretation. To a whole lot of people, “bastard” and “cocksucker” are _still_ quite offensive insults, in any context. Though they may be “fun” insults to you and your friends, some people take offense to them, which they have every right to do since the words are still insults, either way. Because of this, people are perfectly justified in being offended by the use of “gay.” It doesn’t make them knee-jerk, it just makes them sensitive to the word. This is especially true on a message board, where the only context that people have to judge you with are your words. Not everyone will realize that you’re using “gay” as an endearing insult, since they don’t know you well enough to know that you’re just being buddy-buddy. Therefore, they’re within their limits to view the use of the word as an offensive insult, no matter how many used-car salesman smilies you put onto the end of it. Some people just don’t look at it the same as you do, and I’m actually one of them. But I can understand your point. It just doesn’t apply to everybody. ---
**Author:** ![MrWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/4 "2001-07-20T01:53:42Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Crunchy Frog_ > **But isn’t it derived from homophobic sentiments?** Yes, but isn’t that the best way to take the poison out of it? To use it to mean something else, something less unpleasant. Anyway, I not saying that it is right or wrong to use it in a different way, just that it _is_ being used that way. > [@](#): > > **Anyway, that’s mighty white of you to clarify. And I don’t mean that in a racist way or anything, regardless of the roots of the saying.** I must say, I’ve never heard that expression before. Where does it come from? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/5 "2001-07-20T02:23:46Z")
I take offense when I hear the word gay being used as an insult, because I can’t help but think that if the author is calling nasty, stupid, or irritating things “gay”, the author is calling me nasty, stupid, and/or irritating by extension. It seems to me that when using it the author simply doesn’t care that I or other gay people might be present. To be given such little consideration is offensive. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/6 "2001-07-20T02:26:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrWhy \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Crunchy Frog_ > > **But isn’t it derived from homophobic sentiments?** > > Yes, but isn’t that the best way to take the poison out of it? To use it to mean something else, something less unpleasant. \*\* This makes no sense at all. If you take the word “gay” (meaning “homosexual”) and use it to mean “nasty”, you are making it mean something WORSE, not better. It’s the exact opposite process of the one you describe. (Crunchy Frog doesn’t mean that the **word** is derived from homophobic sentiments, but that its **pejorative use** is.) ---
**Author:** ![MrWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/7 "2001-07-20T02:28:33Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Jester \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Because of this, people are perfectly justified in being offended by the use of “gay.” \*\* I disagree. I believe that one should look for the _intent_ of what is said first. If the term is in fact being used as a slight on homosexuals everywhere, then I would be right there with you in condemning the speaker. I just don’t think it should be our first reaction. > [@](#): > > **It doesn’t make them knee-jerk, it just makes them sensitive to the word. This is especially true on a message board, where the only context that people have to judge you with are your words.** I am much more likely to give someone the benefit of the doubt on a message board, simply because of the fact that words are all we have to judge. I would say that it is being _over_ sensitive to assume that the speaker was being malicious (so long as there was no evidence to indicate that they _were_ being malicious). It seems that you believe (correct me if I am wrong) that, given our limited communication medium, the added responsibility is on the writer. I place it on the reader. I believe, that if everyone had to write fearing that they might offend someone, somewhere, then message boards would become rather banal. ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/8 "2001-07-20T02:31:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I would say that it is being over sensitive to assume that the speaker was being malicious (so long as there was no evidence to indicate that they were being malicious). True, but in many cases, when people use the word “gay,” even if it’s meant to mean “stupid,” it’s still being used maliciously. Therefore, people will group together _both_ meanings into one insult. Either way, it’s still a negative connotation. Like matt\_mcl said, changing the meaning from one insult to another doesn’t “soften” the blow, and many people will just group the new meaning in with the old one, which they have every right to do. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/9 "2001-07-20T02:40:55Z")
OK, now I’m confused. “Gay” is, in most cases, synonymous with “homosexual” these days. So…how, exactly, is it insulting at all? If I were to say “That is so gay!”, _why_ would that be insulting? And why then is it OK to refer to homosexuals as “gay”? And what if I say something like “Man, he is so gay!” - is that insulting? It seems to me that someone can _choose_ to be insulted by anything. Why, then, do people choose “gay” to be insulting in some contexts, but not others? Please keep in mind that I do _not_ use “gay” in the alleged perjorative sense, simply because I realize that some folks are offended by it. However, I am curious as to _why_, given the clearly non-insulting “standard” definition. ---
**Author:** ![MrWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/10 "2001-07-20T02:41:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*I take offense when I hear the word gay being used as an insult, because I can’t help but think that if the author is calling nasty, stupid, or irritating things “gay”, the author is calling me nasty, stupid, and/or irritating by extension. \*\* Perhaps I am not explaining myelf well.😕 _If_ the author is calling you nasty, stupid, and/or irritating by extension, then I agree with you. I’m trying to say that this is not _always_ what they are doing, and that we should be careful not to jump to that conclusion. I have heard the expression used in the “non-nasty” sense, so that is one of the possibilities I consider when I read it in a post. I just think it sould be considered a possibility. I am not, for one second, saying that we should not condemn those who use the term in a hurtful way. ---
**Author:** ![MrWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/11 "2001-07-20T02:57:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*This makes no sense at all. If you take the word “gay” (meaning “homosexual”) and use it to mean “nasty”, you are making it mean something WORSE, not better. It’s the exact opposite process of the one you describe. > > (Crunchy Frog doesn’t mean that the **word** is derived from homophobic sentiments, but that its **pejorative use** is.) \*\* Damn, I must be bad at this. I am _not_ suggesting that the word “gay” be taken to mean “nasty”. I know that unfortunately some people use it that way. (BTW, it seems to me that by assuming that is what people _always_ mean when they say “gay”, one is perpetuating that meaning.) Just don’t _assume_ that is what is meant, because I _know_ that some people do _not_ mean it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/12 "2001-07-20T03:05:46Z")
**MrWhy** , you’re doin fine. I see your point now, and agree with it. For a while there, I just thought that you meant that it was always okay to use “gay,” because it no longer meant “homosexual” as a negative connotation. I see now that that is not the case. However, most of the times that the word is used here _on the boards_, it’s used as an insult. That is mainly what Crunchy was referring to. In real life, true, it can be used as something other than an insult, but even then, it’s a fairly rare occurance most places. Thanks for clearing up your point, I agree with you now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/13 "2001-07-20T03:11:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrWhy \* > **_If_ the author is calling you nasty, stupid, and/or irritating by extension, then I agree with you. I’m trying to say that this is not _always_ what they are doing** Dude, how can you possibly fail to notice that that, in fact, is exactly what they’re doing, by definition. Take this roughly analogous situation: Person A: That guy jewed me on the deal! Person B: He what? A: He jewed me on the deal. Cheated me. B: That’s offensive. A: No, it’s not! It’s not like I’m saying Jews are cheats, I’m just saying he jewed me. Is ‘jew’ as used (as a verb) in this context offensive? ---
**Author:** ![MrWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/14 "2001-07-20T03:23:00Z")
**Tengu** , I’m saying that the intent of the speaker, the context etc are very important things. We have to look at everything before we can say whether anything is offensive or not. So whether your example is offensive depends on whether the speaker is a Jew himself, if he said it in fun or not, if the guys are friends and know each other well enough to know each others feeling on Jewry etc. My whole point is that you can’t always tell if it’s offensive or not from the words alone. So I guess my answer is: “I don’t know, and I’m not willing to make a guess without further information.” ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/15 "2001-07-20T03:28:05Z")
I dissagree that the reader has to be the one to judge things. The author should learn that there is a difference between joking among friends and joking on a messageboard. If you can’t tell wether or not its offensive then why bother using it? ---
**Author:** ![vorfod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a87d85/32.png) [@vorfod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vorfod)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/16 "2001-07-20T04:21:18Z")
It seems to me that there is a possibility here of a misunderstanding arising due to location. **MrWhy’s** profile reads as Sydney, Australia, whereas the remainder seem (where listed) mainly in North America. As a fellow resident of Sydney, it’s quite possible to call a friend gay, or a bastard, or a cocksucker and for it not to be offensive, but a term of endearment. Though I’ll be the first to admit that using any of the above to describe anyone other than a mate would be offensive, regardless of the intended context. So I guess that I’d consider it OK to use potentially offensive terms between friends, I would definitely not recommend using it as a general term of address. So even though I see **MrWhy’s** pint, I have to agree with **Sterra** that you should avoid those sort of terms on a message board, as the majority of people you’re holding a discussion with are strangers, and may well miss the intended context of your comments. I don’t really see it as a knee-jerk reaction for the sake of being PC, it just seems reasonable to me to avoid offending people unless absolutely necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/17 "2001-07-20T04:30:30Z")
As somebody mentioned in the other thread, I see “gay” and “retarded” being used in quite similar ways. I always took: _Oh man, that’s so gay!_ or _That is, like, sooooo retarded!_ as “these things possess the same qualities as gay/retarded people and are therefore bad”. Of course, context _is_ important, but on a message board where body language, intonation and facial expressions cannot be deduced, it is difficult to emulate real-life interaction and speech-patterns. ---
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/18 "2001-07-20T04:35:22Z")
Sorry, the last sentence should read: Of course, context _is_ important, but on a message board where body language, intonation and facial expressions cannot be deduced, it is difficult to emulate real-life interaction and speech-patterns, and it is sometimes necessary to either provide the context or choose a different word. ---
**Author:** ![Brite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Brite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brite)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/19 "2001-07-20T05:07:44Z")
Darn! It seems like everything anyone says offends homeosexuals these days! BTW, the origonal usage of gay, before the Homosexuals decided to corrupt it, meant happy, pleasent and cheerful. A ‘gay blade’ was a good sworsman. He’s gay meant cheerful. A gay old time meant a happy occassion. A gay color was a bright, cheerful hue. A gay day was a pleasent day. The same as ‘fruit’ meant just that; fruit! Later fruit stood for mentally unballanced. Now it’s a derogatory term for homosexuals. Why does a homosexual need to be called gay anyhow? Who came up with this term? What’s wrong with ‘homo’? Ir’s not an insult until you apply it as such. Like Blacks call each other nigger, but let a White use the term and it’s an insult. You know, I can wander around for days and not find anyone using any derogatory term for homosexuals and suddenly, on TV, some homosexual is pissed off because someone used something that just might be slanderous towards them, but which no one would have even paid attention to had he not opened his big mouth about it. Then, they took over the term ‘gay.’ None of them asked me if they could, nor did they ask if any heterosexual minded, they just took it. Now, if anyone uses the term gay around one, he gets pissed. They also stole the descriptive noun ‘Rainbow,’ which pissed off members of the Rainbow Coalition and around 1000 Internet users whose handles begin with ‘Rainbow.’ I know 4 ‘Rainbows’ on the web and they’ve started switching to alternate names because of all of the ‘gay’ IM’s they get along with advertisement spam for gay porn. One was asked via IM why, if he was not gay, did his screen name begin with Rainbow!! I’m kind of getting tired of having to watch my words because various ‘rights’ groups have decided to alter their meanings and take offense if they mistake what I and others say, using such terms. ---
**Author:** ![MrWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2001, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132/20 "2001-07-20T05:24:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sterra \* > \*\*I dissagree that the reader has to be the one to judge things. The author should learn that there is a difference between joking among friends and joking on a messageboard. If you can’t tell wether or not its offensive then why bother using it? \*\* I see the point that the author should take reasonable care, and I agree, but I still think that they should be given the benefit of the doubt, in case they screw up. Innocent until proven guilty, so to speak. Myself, I wouldn’t deliberately use any terms that I thought could be taken as offensive. But if I inadvertently do, I hope that I m not judged too harshly. As **vorfod** says, it could be simply a regional difference that makes the author think there is nothing wrong with their comments for example. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gay-used-to-mean-stupid-and-the-offense-therein/73132.md?page=2)