# Gays and Lesbians, more affluent than average? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 3, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221 "2013-08-03T02:59:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Buffalo\_Bilious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e99b99/32.png) [@Buffalo\_Bilious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buffalo_Bilious)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/21 "2013-08-03T20:50:57Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Have look at [this story](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0803-gay-teacher-20130803,0,4616149.story) from today’s L.A. Times, in which as gay teacher is fired for having his wedding photos published in the local newspaper. The idea is to combat that nonsense, not to give gays special privileges. That story is emblematic of my point. He’s a teacher at a Catholic school. My guess is that everyone in that school knew (and likely didnt care) he was gay, but he went the extra step and thought it’d be a good idea to “flaunt” sexual orientation with the news announcement. The Catholic church is adamant on its condemnation of same-sex marriage, as are the Jews, the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Mormons, and most sects of Protestants as well. Why is this guy butt-hurt (no pun intended) because he got canned (no pun intended) from an employer who’s obviously opposed to the action he took? If I worked at a mosque, how long do you think I’d last on the payroll if I brought BLTs and pork chops with me for lunch? Your example doesn’t hold weight. When one hires into a company, one is expected to toe the line in terms of the corporate credo. You may interview in a Brooks Brothers suit and then show up on your first day in full drag, but if you do, don’t cry about getting the heave-ho because of your “sexual identity”. You misrepresented yourself and you expect everyone to acquiesce because it’s the trendy-buzz thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/22 "2013-08-03T21:05:08Z")
But he didn’t get married at work. He didn’t mention his workplace in the media coverage. Having one’s wedding mentioned in the newspaper is hardly “flaunting,” any more than being married is “flaunting”. (After all, marriage records are public documents.) A good exercise is to imagine the same situation with non-minorities. Can you imagine a straight man or woman getting fired for having their wedding announced in the newspaper? ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/23 "2013-08-03T21:25:01Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I don’t know that I’d consider the response to that a comeuppance, exactly. It’s a very common misconception that there are broader protections for LGBT out there than there actually are. A LOT of people (even ones who should probably know better) think the situation is nowhere near as dire as it actually is. Although that’s true, the poster who tried a gotcha is one that seems to have an issue with gays and lesbians, but can’t quite ever bring himself to say so directly. So it was nice to see that line of “reasoning” shut down immediately. ---
**Author:** ![NotDeadYet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NotDeadYet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotDeadYet)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/24 "2013-08-03T21:46:44Z")
Results from a simple Google search: “While we wait for the U.S. Census to tell us about gay families, the National Center for Marriage & Family Research’s new analysis says there are about 580,000 same-sex homes in America — with 86,000 legally married lesbians couples and 66,000 gay men having tied the knot in the five states (and one federal district) where it’s legal. (Though I’m not sure the Coquille Indian Tribe in Oregon, where marriage is also legal, was counted.) Sticking to stereotypes, gays have some of the highest household incomes and education levels (with straight heteros bottoming the list). Yay, DINKS! The study, based on data from the 2009 American Community Survey, also finds 17 percent of gay homes have kids (compared to 40% for straights), with lesbians twice as likely to be raising children than gay men with a 22-11 percent split. Thank goodness they’re not all molest-y, right? It means there must not be tons of queers raising children in Washington D.C., since that’s where the highest concentration of gay male households in the whole country live. Some 26 percent of all unmarried couples in the nation’s capital are gay. Massachusetts ranks highest among lesbian homes, but to be fair: North Hampton.” Full story here: [http://www.queerty.com/gay-americans-are-wealthier-better-educated-than-straights-who-wouldnt-want-to-be-a-homosexual-20101111/#ixzz2aweExVnf](http://www.queerty.com/gay-americans-are-wealthier-better-educated-than-straights-who-wouldnt-want-to-be-a-homosexual-20101111/#ixzz2aweExVnf) Now, it being an openly Gay website, you can take the “findings” with a grain of salt. There might be an agenda, ya think? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/25 "2013-08-03T21:57:09Z")
Same-sex households could include heterosexual family members and same-sex roommates / housemates, and exclude single gay men and lesbians. Does the data include sexual orientation or is it making assumptions? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/26 "2013-08-04T00:01:12Z")
> [@Buffalo\_Bilious](#): > > …The Catholic church is adamant on its condemnation of same-sex marriage, as are the Jews, the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Mormons, and most sects of Protestants as well… Not so much the Reform Jews (which is most of the American Jewish population); the largest organization of Reform rabbis endorsed civil marriage equality back in the '90s. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/27 "2013-08-04T00:15:28Z")
> [@Buffalo\_Bilious](#): > > I’ve got no dog in this fight, but I find the comments concerting in that it appears we’re now parsing LGBT “affluence”. When did sexual orientation become a “right” to promtion or higher than average wages? I don’t see that anyone has claimed that LGBT folks should have a higher than average wage. Could you please quote the specific post or posts that you’re talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Buffalo\_Bilious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e99b99/32.png) [@Buffalo\_Bilious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buffalo_Bilious)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/28 "2013-08-04T00:16:52Z")
Ya know, I’m very reluctant to do this , but I must quote that old saw: "there’s lies, damned lies and then there’s statistics. Vis a vis the OP, I’m not seeing any gay folks on the street begging for change simply because they’re gay. This is what I’m talking about… If I don’t get a job, can I bitch about it being because I’m Irish?. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/29 "2013-08-04T00:25:25Z")
> [@Buffalo\_Bilious](#): > > Vis a vis the OP, I’m not seeing any gay folks on the street begging for change simply because they’re gay. My question would be “How do you KNOW?” And what about teens who get thrown out of the house when they come out to their parents? They’re not begging on the street? (Or worse, being sexually exploited in return for shelter?) But I think the major question is, again, “How do you know?” ---
**Author:** ![Buffalo\_Bilious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e99b99/32.png) [@Buffalo\_Bilious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buffalo_Bilious)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/30 "2013-08-04T00:27:19Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I don’t see that anyone has claimed that LGBT folks should have a higher than average wage. Could you please quote the specific post or posts that you’re talking about? The OP asked the question. Nobody stated they make more, but plenty of responders seem to be making the case that they’re not paid enough, simply because they’re gay. I’ve got a problem with that line of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Buffalo\_Bilious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e99b99/32.png) [@Buffalo\_Bilious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buffalo_Bilious)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/31 "2013-08-04T00:33:13Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > My question would be “How do you KNOW?” > > And what about teens who get thrown out of the house when they come out to their parents? They’re not begging on the street? (Or worse, being sexually exploited in return for shelter?) > > But I think the major question is, again, “How do you know?” What are you asking me? If I run into a panhandler on the street, am I supposed to assume his/her sexual orientation put them there? Should I even have to consider it as a factor in my decision to toss them a buck? ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/32 "2013-08-04T00:33:30Z")
> [@Buffalo\_Bilious](#): > > Ya know, I’m very reluctant to do this , but I must quote that old saw: "there’s lies, damned lies and then there’s statistics. > > Vis a vis the OP, I’m not seeing any gay folks on the street begging for change simply because they’re gay. > > This is what I’m talking about… If I don’t get a job, can I bitch about it being because I’m Irish?. And then there are anecdotes. And bias. And ignorance. [A recent study confirmed that 40% of homeless youth are LGBT.](http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/new-study-confirms-40-percent-of-homeless-youth-are-gay/) I’m gonna take a wild leap and assume some of those are indeed begging for change simply because their parents booted them to the curb for being gay. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/33 "2013-08-04T00:36:51Z")
> [@Buffalo\_Bilious](#): > > I’ve got a problem with that line of thinking. I’m afraid you have a problem parsing arguments. Do you think African-Americans are paid less on average than Whites? If you accept that statistic, and can imagine reasons why it would be true, why would you question the same statistic for Gays? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/34 "2013-08-04T00:38:27Z")
> [@Buffalo\_Bilious](#): > > Ya know, I’m very reluctant to do this , but I must quote that old saw: "there’s lies, damned lies and then there’s statistics. Which is an expression that is typically misused, as your use of it. Statistics are fundamental to every branch of science in existence. > [@](#): > > This is what I’m talking about… If I don’t get a job, can I bitch about it being because I’m Irish?. Yes you can, if they didn’t hire you for that reason. National origin is a protected class. > **[National Origin Discrimination](https://www.eeoc.gov/national-origin-discrimination)** > > National Origin Discrimination The fact that you don’t even know something that basic may indicate further research on this subject is required by yourself. And being LGBT is no more our choice than being Irish. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/35 "2013-08-04T00:43:52Z")
> [@Buffalo\_Bilious](#): > > What are you asking me? > > If I run into a panhandler on the street, am I supposed to assume his/her sexual orientation put them there? Should I even have to consider it as a factor in my decision to toss them a buck? I’m asking you because your exact words were > [@](#): > > I’m not seeing any gay folks on the street begging for change simply because they’re gay. So it seems like a perfectly logical question would be “How do you KNOW you don’t see any gay folks on the street begging for change?”. Are you expecting them to be painted fuchsia? Maybe busking by singing showtunes? Impeccably dressed in the latest fashions? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/36 "2013-08-04T00:46:29Z")
Some stats from _Injustice at Every Turn_ [National Transgender Discrimination Survey: Full Report | A4TE](http://transequality.org/PDFs/NTDS_Report.pdf) Transgender persons: - Almost 1 in 5 were refused to be rented to based on their gender identity. - More than 1 in 10 were evicted based on gender identity. - Nearly 1 in 5 have been homeless, and more than half of those who were homeless were harassed by shelter employees due to their gender identity. Nearly 30% were refused accommodation at a homeless shelter due to their gender identity. Then in terms of jobs: > [@](#): > > KEY FINDINGS IN EMPLOYMENT > > • Double the rate of unemployment: Survey respondents experienced unemployment at twice the rate of the general population, with rates for people of color up to four times the national unemployment rate. > > • Near universal harassment on the job: Ninety percent (90%) of those surveyed reported experiencing harassment or mistreatment on the job or took actions to avoid it. > > • Considerable loss of jobs and careers: Forty-seven percent (47%) said they had experienced an adverse job outcome, such as being fired, not hired or denied a promotion because of being transgender/gender non-conforming; 26% of respondents said that they had lost a job due to being transgender or gender non-conforming. > > • Race multiplies the effect of discrimination: For Black, Latino/a, American Indian and multiracial respondents, discrimination in the workplace was even more pervasive, sometimes resulting in up to twice or three times the rates of various negative outcomes. > > • Living in dire poverty: Fifteen percent (15%) of our respondents reported a household income under $10,000/year, nearly four times the rate of this category for the general population. Those who lost a job due to bias lived at this level of poverty at six times the rate of the general population. More information about income can be found in the Portrait and Education chapters. > > • Rampant under-employment: Forty-four percent (44%) reported experiencing under-employment. > > • Large majorities attempted to avoid discrimination by hiding their gender or gender transition (71%) or delaying their gender transition (57%). > > • The vast majority (78%) of those who transitioned from one gender to the other reported that they felt more comfortable at work and their job performance improved. > > • Eighty-six percent (86%) of those who have not lost a job due to bias reported that they were able to access restrooms at work appropriate for their gender identity, meaning that 14% of those who kept their jobs were denied access. > > • People who had lost a job due to bias or were currently unemployed reported much higher involvement in underground employment such as sex work or drug sales, had much higher levels of incarceration and homelessness, and negative health outcomes. > > • Sixteen percent (16%) said they had been compelled to engage in underground employment for income. Eleven percent (11%) turned to sex work. > > • Many respondents demonstrated resilience: Of the 26% who reported losing a job due to bias, 58% reported being currently employed. Nope, nothing wrong here! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/37 "2013-08-04T01:03:55Z")
> [@Buffalo\_Bilious](#): > > The OP asked the question. Nobody stated they make more, but plenty of responders seem to be making the case that they’re not paid enough, simply because they’re gay. The cite I quoted in the very first reply in this thread says that gay men earn up to 32% less than similarly qualified straight men. > [@](#): > > I’ve got a problem with that line of thinking. You have a problem with thinking that gay people deserve salaries comparable to those of similarly qualified straight people? ---
**Author:** ![Buffalo\_Bilious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e99b99/32.png) [@Buffalo\_Bilious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buffalo_Bilious)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/38 "2013-08-04T01:18:18Z")
I love it! All this pushback because some nebulous percentage of homeless kids MIGHT be gay. I’m assuming that you’re including those otherwise hetero males who choose to smoke the pole because it’s an easy way to turn a buck. And there doesn’t seem to be any gnashing of teeth about the well-to-do homo Johns who prey on these kids, is there? Oh no, we cant have that!!! The government should do something and take care of these innocent waifs. Yeah, right… ---
**Author:** ![Buffalo\_Bilious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e99b99/32.png) [@Buffalo\_Bilious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buffalo_Bilious)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/39 "2013-08-04T01:27:19Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > You have a problem with thinking that gay people deserve salaries comparable to those of similarly qualified straight people? I have a problem with making (or mandating) a distinction between people based on their sexuality and an even bigger problem when someone claims that said choice of sexuality is a detriment to upward mobility. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221/40 "2013-08-04T01:31:45Z")
> [@Buffalo\_Bilious](#): > > I love it! All this pushback because some nebulous percentage of homeless kids MIGHT be gay. > > I’m assuming that you’re including those otherwise hetero males who choose to smoke the pole because it’s an easy way to turn a buck. > > And there doesn’t seem to be any gnashing of teeth about the well-to-do homo Johns who prey on these kids, is there? > > Oh no, we cant have that!!! The government should do something and take care of these innocent waifs. > > Yeah, right… Is it your intention in this thread to make it clear that you have a problem with gay behavior? If so, you are doing a splendid job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-and-lesbians-more-affluent-than-average/665221.md?page=3)