# Gays in Star Trek **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 15, 2002, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453 "2002-03-15T12:35:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Illuvatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b38774/32.png) [@Illuvatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuvatar)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/1 "2002-03-15T12:35:22Z")
Gays in Star Trek, where are they??? Cause ST has been known for pushing social issues, like putting African-American’s on tv, and having a russian (ex USSR) officer on the bridge, and that time they did that half black/half white race thing etc. I can’t think of many examples in ST:TNG… but shouldn’t there be??? ---
**Author:** ![Illuvatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b38774/32.png) [@Illuvatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuvatar)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/2 "2002-03-15T12:38:20Z")
Sorry, completely forgot about cafe society (never actually posted there actually). But this is probably alot to do with social questions rather than tv show gossip so I think it belongs here. Mod’s you can move it if you think it’s warranted. ---
**Author:** ![Why\_A\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Why\_A\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Why_A_Duck)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/3 "2002-03-15T12:40:13Z")
Yet another reason why Babylon 5 was infinitely superior to the Star Trek. B5 had Ivanova almost admitting that she sorta like Talia in that way, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/4 "2002-03-15T13:35:38Z")
ST:TNG dealt with the issue once, in rather vague terms about a society that made someone an outcast. It was in response to protests from a previous episode where Dr. Crusher fell in love with a trill symbiont, then dropped him/her like a red-hot rock when she came back female. I stopped watching all forms of ST after a half season of Voyager, but up until that point, there was no direct reference to homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![KXL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@KXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KXL)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/5 "2002-03-15T13:37:39Z")
Well, TNG’s “The Outcast” (sort of). But… Item: David Gerrold (“The Trouble With Tribbles”) wrote an episode of TNG, which featured two lines indicating that some red-shirts were gay (“How long have you two been together? Since the Academy.”) The story was rejected when he refused to remove them. Read all about it at this one-page PDF. [http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/dwb107.pdf](http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/dwb107.pdf) Item: In the Deep Space Nine episodes set in the Mirror Universe, Major Kira (The Intendant) is bi-sexual. Item: The folks at Pocket Books are a bit more flexible. Lesbians appears in the TNG novels “The Best and The Brightest” and the “Dark Passions” duology. And the TNG novel “Section 31: Rogue” features a gay couple. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/6 "2002-03-15T13:57:25Z")
There have only been two episodes that I know of that even touch on the issue, both Next Generation shows. In the first Trill episode of TNG, Beverly was falling in love with a Trill who, at that time, was in a male body. However, his host fell ill and a new host was provided by the Trill Symbiosis Committee (or whatever it’s called). The new host was female, which ended the relationship. There was a comment about how humans were not yet mature enough as a species. A later TNG episode featured Riker falling for a member of a species with enforced androgyny. Failing to remain androgynous (that is, to favor being either male or female) was an offense in this society. This was TNG’s thinly veiled attempt at social commentary on “treatment” for homosexuality. On the other hand, gay characters **have** appeared in aftermarket fiction. And I won’t even begin to discuss Kirk-Spock fanfic. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/7 "2002-03-15T14:36:55Z")
> [@](#): > > [Babylon 5] had Ivanova almost admitting that she sorta like Talia in that way, maybe. They also had Franklin and Marcus go undercover as a married couple, which apparently was the most plausible cover story for two men travelling to Mars. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/8 "2002-03-15T14:42:04Z")
Maybe they stored them in the same place as people who follow Earth’s mainstream religions 😛 When Trek tries to deliver a message about a delicate social issue it too often either (a) has the subtlety of a wrecking ball and telegraphs what is the "right’ answer almost from the opening credits or (b) is _soooo_ “open minded” you can’t find the point anywhere. And this leads me to think that maybe it’s better as it has been so far. they would probably produce a ridiculous “sermon” ep (remember this dialog: “Isn’t that in the Southern part of the Galaxy?”…yeeeesh!) that could be summarized as : > [@](#): > > 8:00 Eastern, UPN: _Star Trek, the Dregs of the Concept_ “Ask and Tell” - as many ways to say “homophobia is bad” as can fit in 50 minutes and spare the time for reconfiguring the metatractive field exosuccinators. And it would introduce the semi-recurring character of Ensign HooHah, whose only apparent function is to fill the billet of “Ship’s Gay Officer.” jrd (And anyway, between Kirk, Riker and all those half-human hybrids running around, isn’t it a kind of subtext in Trek that earthlings will f\*\*\* anything humanoid?) ---
**Author:** ![Why\_A\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Why\_A\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Why_A_Duck)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/9 "2002-03-15T14:45:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JRDelirious \* > **And it would introduce the semi-recurring character of Ensign HooHah, whose only apparent function is to fill the billet of "Ship’s Gay Officer."** For some reason, after I read that the image of Johnny from the Airplane movies popped into my head. ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/10 "2002-03-15T15:57:48Z")
In the DS9 episode [Rejoined](http://www.startrek.com/library/ds9_episodes/episodes_ds9_detail_68238.asp), Jadzia encountered the widow of a former Dax host (Torias) and was very strongly attracted to her (and vice versa). AFAIK this is the most blatantly lesbian/bisexual instance in ST, at least to date. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/11 "2002-03-15T16:36:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JRDelirious \* > \*\*Maybe they stored them in the same place as people who follow Earth’s mainstream religions 😛 > \*\* It just hit me this statement could be read two ways: (1) Trek does with gays what many people from mainstream religions do with gays (pretend they don’t exist) (2) Trek does with gay characters the same thing as Trek does with characters who’s openly profess a mainstream Earth religion (avoids out of fear of quagmire) My take is (2) And IMO Trills don’t count. They are **too** perfect as a plot device about external appearances and “love” reaching beyond the surface to “what’s within” (literally!)… _but_ “gay” is NOT “not minding” the physical gender of the other person (the Crusher ep in TNG, the Dax ep in DS9), it’s the eros being specifically same-gender oriented. ---
**Author:** ![Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/db5fbb/32.png) [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/12 "2002-03-15T16:51:25Z")
Salon has an article on this topic: [http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2001/06/30/gay\_trek/index.html](http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2001/06/30/gay_trek/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/13 "2002-03-15T17:14:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Running with Scissors \* > \*\*In the DS9 episode Rejoined, Jadzia encountered the widow of a former Dax host (Torias) and was very strongly attracted to her (and vice versa). AFAIK this is the most blatantly lesbian/bisexual instance in ST, at least to date. \*\* This episode included a very passionate lesbian kiss and IIRC the couple slept together (off-screen). **SPOILERS** The big conflict in the episode (which ended up being too much for the other woman to overcome) was that there was a taboo against associating with past-life friends and especially lovers. Some of the regular characters were against the relationship, but only on this basis; no one said anything at all about the fact that it was homosexual. I remember seeing an interview with one of the creators (don’t recall who) in which he said he was very proud of that and hoped it made up for “The Host.” Actually, although it should have been handled better, I don’t think “The Host” was really all that terrible – just because Beverly was straight doesn’t make the society homophobic. Some people are just straight, right? There was a lot of speculation when Enterprise first began that Lt. Malcolm Reed was gay, but it turns out he isn’t. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/14 "2002-03-15T17:48:55Z")
Off to Cafe Society. **DrMatrix** - General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/15 "2002-03-15T18:54:27Z")
[tongue in cheek] Wesley Crusher from ST:TNG (one kissing episode- the Game, but still . . . .) Ensign Kim from Voyager 😃 The doctor from DS9 :rolleyes: Come on! [tongue in cheek] Also, the porn uses of the holodeck at alluded to (ie the Voyager episode where Tuvak needs to “get it on” for health purposes), and “holodeck addiction” issues. _-me_ ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/16 "2002-03-15T19:06:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cliffy \* > \*\* > > There was a lot of speculation when Enterprise first began that Lt. Malcolm Reed was gay, but it turns out he isn’t. > \*\* Maybe he’s gay with Vulcan tendencies. I think the producers are ignoring the issue because they are afraid of public outcry on the issue. IIRC, Roddenberry said there weren’t gays in the future, but he may have recanted on that (no, i don’t have a cite, any help here would be hot!). So Berman and Braga (or B & B, or The Ruiners) have decided to just ignore the problem, in blatant disregard of Trek’s history of tackleing difficult subjects. I like to think that just to the left in Ten-Forward there are two lesbians making out, but i think about that a lot in not-Trek related times, also. ---
**Author:** ![pezwookiee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@pezwookiee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pezwookiee)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/17 "2002-03-15T19:33:41Z")
Dang, somebody already beat me to mentioning Wesley Crusher and the Doctor fro DS9!! What about Lt. Barclay? And do tribbles count? 😉 Someone also beat me to mentioning the Star Trek erotic fan fic that’s floating around. (My old roommate found a disturbing one involving Riker and Wesley Crusher!) Just on a side note, I’m quite open minded and very liberal, but one of the funniest things I’ve seen recently was the actor playing the ensign on The Star Trek Experience ride in Las Vegas. The particular actor they had that day was _ **flaming** _ gay. To the point of campiness. It seemed really incongruent and fun and and probably unintentional, but I’m so glad they cast him. ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/18 "2002-03-15T20:27:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*Maybe he’s gay with Vulcan tendencies. > > I think the producers are ignoring the issue because they are afraid of public outcry on the issue. IIRC, Roddenberry said there weren’t gays in the future, but he may have recanted on that (no, i don’t have a cite, any help here would be hot!). So Berman and Braga (or B & B, or The Ruiners) have decided to just ignore the problem, in blatant disregard of Trek’s history of tackleing difficult subjects. I like to think that just to the left in Ten-Forward there are two lesbians making out, but i think about that a lot in not-Trek related times, also. \*\* On a related note, gay porn star Brad Phillips is rumoured to have appeared as an ensign with a one-line speaking part in a second season ST:TNG episode, but since I am not very familiar with ST:TNG and have no idea what Phillips looks like, I’d be unable to point out which episode that was. He wasn’t asked back for a recurring role - strange, that… ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/19 "2002-03-15T20:40:27Z")
Its all about selective enforcement of the Prime Directive. The UFP will not interfere with the natural development of any culture: any crewmember or vessel is expendeble in upholding the Prime Directive. The Prime Directive does NOT apply to humans (and supposedly, other cultures native to the UFP). The Governent of the UFP will “manage” the civillian population, which includes monitoring and adjusting individuals to conform to a supposed ideal. Notice; individualists and non-conformists are generally portrayed as misfits or criminals. Only those who blindly obey are treated as the machine’s gear that DOSEN’T squeak…perfect, and therefore comfortably invisible. Undoubtedly, when the colonists refused to abandon their homes in the Cardassian DMZ, the UFP goverment was certainly surprized their edict wasn’t unquestiongly obeyed. Homosexuals would not comfortablu conform to the norm, and therefore be “adjusted” to fit in to mainstream society. The UFP, like any large, central authority, annot stand not having control over every little thing ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/20 "2002-03-15T21:09:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*[tongue in cheek] > Ensign Kim from Voyager 😃 > [tongue in cheek] > \*\* Yeah, he refused Seven but let’s face it; making love to her could be hazardous to one’s health! Remember when the Doctor was teaching her to dance and she dislocated her partner’s shoulder? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453.md?page=2)