# Gays in Star Trek **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 15, 2002, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453 "2002-03-15T12:35:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/21 "2002-03-15T22:28:01Z")
If you look closely at some 1st season episodes of TNG, you will see guys in the miniskirt uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/22 "2002-03-15T23:30:52Z")
Well, there were a couple of instances on DS9: In the last season, the mirror-universe Ezri Dax came to our reality to steal a Klingon cloaking device, And looked a little more…“butch” than the original Dax…as I recall, back in the mirror universe, she was revealed to be the mirror-Kira’s ex girlfriend, or something. Later in the same episode, Quark’s brother Rom has had to travel to the mirror universe, and encounters the Mirror version of Leeta, his wife. “Leeta!?” “Yes? Do I know you?” “We’re married!” She then scoffs, laughs…and continues down the promenade arm-in-arm with another woman. And back in an earlier season, a female Ferengi has disguised herself as a male, and begun a business partnership with Quark. Later, talking to Dax in a cafe, Dax remarks, (Paraphrasing) “You love him, don’t you? Come on, It’s obvious.” “Keep your voice down, Quark doesn’t even know I’m a woman!” “You’re a WOMAN?!”. Granted, the above examples are drawn from memory, so the details are probably a little off, but the gist is about right. And the grammer is horrible, but I’m in a hurry. Ranchoth ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/23 "2002-03-16T06:08:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*[tongue in cheek] > The doctor from DS9 :rolleyes: > [tongue in cheek] > \*\* [Not so Tongue in Cheek] Don’t forget Miles. Can’t talk about Julian being gay without mentioning Miles. Seriously, they’re a fun couple. Obviously neither Miles or Julian is actually gay (what with the existances of Keiko and Dax), but there is a certain (Presumably deliberate) homoeroticism to their relationship, and I’m convinced Julian does, in fact, have some feelings for Miles. Then again I tend to be a little overly prone to seeing these things whether they’re supposed to be there or not. (Sam Gamgee…'nuff said.) ---
**Author:** ![Illuvatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b38774/32.png) [@Illuvatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuvatar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/24 "2002-03-16T12:13:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Wesley Crusher from ST:TNG (one kissing episode- the Game, but still . . . .) **elf6c** do you have anything to back this up? Is Wesley gay?!? And has anyone written to the writers and asked them of gay examples from Star Trek?? If so what response did they get? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/25 "2002-03-16T12:36:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tengu \* > \*\* > Obviously neither Miles or Julian is actually gay (what with the existances of Keiko and Dax), but there is a certain (Presumably deliberate) homoeroticism to their relationship, and I’m convinced Julian does, in fact, have some feelings for Miles. Then again I tend to be a little overly prone to seeing these things whether they’re supposed to be there or not. > > (Sam Gamgee…'nuff said.) \*\* I don’t know where people see these homoerotic scenes and I keep missing them. I never saw Julian and Miles as anything more then close friends. I also didn’t see anything homoerotic in Lord of the Rings. Either I’m completely oblivious or people see things in scenes they want to see. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/26 "2002-03-16T13:02:17Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Tengu:_ > **Don’t forget Miles. Can’t talk about Julian being gay without mentioning Miles.** What about Bashir and Garak? It’s more in the early shows: Take a look at the opening scene in _Past Prologue_ (a first-season episode), where Garak tries to pick the doctor up: “If you simply wish, as I do, for a bit of enjoyable company now and then, I’m at your disposal.” Or the whole second-season episode, _The Wire_. Anyway, I’ve always found Bashir’s relationships with O’Brien and Garak far more emotionally convincing than any of the occasional hetero romances they tried to put him in. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/27 "2002-03-16T13:36:31Z")
It’s not so much that there aren’t many instances of GLBT behavior in Trek (we’ve listed over a dozen cases here) (okay, a dozen cases over five series and nine movies is kinda lame, but still…), as it is that most of them are portrayed as just plain wrong, going all the way back to when Janice Lester took over Kirk’s body–when she was leering at Yeoman Rand, that was just creeply. The only time they portrayed it as not-weird was when Jadzia met a former spouse, and in that case, it wasn’t really that it wasn’t not-weird, it was that it wasn’t any kind of issue at all–gender wasn’t mentioned at all. Oh, and the guys wearing the singlets in the first few episodes of STNG weren’t supposed to be gay–that was supposed to be the uniform of the yeoman rank. They figured out after a few episodes that it looked pretty dumb and stopped doing it (particularly since women had stopped wearing them by the time we got to Star Trek: The Boring Movie). ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/28 "2002-03-16T13:38:00Z")
Huh. “Creeply.” It’s a new word, meaning “really creepy”, or “in a creepy way, but not as creepy as ‘creepily.’” Yeah, that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/29 "2002-03-16T23:48:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sturmhauke \* > \*\*If you look closely at some 1st season episodes of TNG, you will see guys in the miniskirt uniform. \*\* * * * Yes, those were called “scants,” rather appropriately. It was even possible to mail order the sewing patterns for them via the Star Trek Communicator (Official Fan club magazine, at the time). ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/30 "2002-03-17T06:36:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > **I don’t know where people see these homoerotic scenes and I keep missing them. I never saw Julian and Miles as anything more then close friends. I also didn’t see anything homoerotic in Lord of the Rings. Either I’m completely oblivious or people see things in scenes they want to see.** Little bit of both, I’d say. I freely admit I read a lot more into Julian/Miles and Sam/Frodo than was probably really there, but there IS something there. Sam/Frodo I’d say is more or less accidental, but there was definitely a certain amount of deliberate planting with Miles, at least later on…the writers were obviously having fun with it. There was a great scene at the beginning of one episode that I wish I could quote exactly… Julian and Miles in a runabout returning from a long away mission, and Julian tricks Miles into saying he wishes Keiko were more manly (sometimes). The grin on Julian’s face and the look on Miles’ ( :eek: ) were priceless. As to Garak, I’ve never really seen anything homoerotic about their relationship, though I can see where some might, (Maybe I’m just too attatched to Julian/Miles) and I certainly agree it was one of the most GENUINE relationships on the show. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/31 "2002-03-17T09:28:52Z")
Maybe Starfleet has a don’t ask don’t tell policy. 😛 Marc ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/32 "2002-03-17T12:35:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tengu \* > \*\*As to Garak, I’ve never really seen anything homoerotic about their relationship, though I can see where some might, (Maybe I’m just too attatched to Julian/Miles) and I certainly agree it was one of the most GENUINE relationships on the show. \*\* Andy Robinson, the actor who plays Garak, has often said that he plays the character as being attracted to Bashir. I’ll see if I can dig up a quote, if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/33 "2002-03-17T17:47:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scr4 \* > \*\* > > They also had Franklin and Marcus go undercover as a married couple, which apparently was the most plausible cover story for two men travelling to Mars. \*\* I loved that scene! It had much amusing banter. And it made it plain, with just a brief scene, that same sex marriage was a normal feature of life in this future society. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tyrrell_mcallister/32/16772_2.png) [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tyrrell_McAllister)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/34 "2002-03-17T18:18:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miss Mapp \* > \*\* > Andy Robinson, the actor who plays Garak, has often said that he plays the character as being attracted to Bashir. > \*\* Miles will kill him if he [tries](http://diaries.diagon.org/) anything. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/35 "2002-03-18T01:03:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miss Mapp \* > \*\*Andy Robinson, the actor who plays Garak, has often said that he plays the character as being attracted to Bashir. > > I’ll see if I can dig up a quote, if you like. \*\* That’d be cool. I don’t doubt you, I’d just like to see what he said about it. (And LOL, Tyrrell) ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/36 "2002-03-18T22:04:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tengu \* > **That’d be cool. I don’t doubt you, I’d just like to see what he said about it.** I’ll see what I can come up with. And, Tyrrell: Ha! I love _The Secret Diaries_! ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2002, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/37 "2002-03-20T13:41:26Z")
Here we go! The following link was provided by a very dear and wonderful friend of mine who keeps better track of these things than I do. (This is my first attempt at a link; fingers crossed that I don’t make a mess of it) : [http://www.anotheruniverse.com/tv/interviews/andrewrobinson.html](http://www.anotheruniverse.com/tv/interviews/andrewrobinson.html) A pertinent quote from the above interview: > [@](#): > > Much fan fiction about Garak speculates that his feelings for Bashir went beyond the platonic relationship depicted on television, a belief Robinson does not refute… > > “I loved that sexual ambiguity,” Robinson states. "I wanted to get away from our sexual prejudices. I thought, this is an alien! Who knows what alien sexuality is, if indeed there is strict heterosexuality or homosexuality, those delineations? My friend also provided a few quotes from articles in print fan zines: > [@](#): > > He was asked by a guy: “When Garak first meets Bashir, you could think there is something gay in the way he approached him. Did the writers/producers tell you to do that or was that your own interpretation?” > > Andy threw his arms into the air and said: “Ha! If they had known what I was going to do, they’d have _never_ let me do that.” > > “The first moment we started working together on that scene, I knew that Sid and I were a match. We had so much fun with that. The whole thing with putting my hand on his shoulder and Sid’s wonderful reaction: ‘Is this guy coming on to me? What’s going on here?’” > [@](#): > > “Quite honestly,” says Andy, “Garak seduces Bashir. Garak’s a lonely man, and to this day I feel his sexual orientation is up for grabs. My feeling was - I’ve used this line often - if it moves, if it breathes, go for it! That’s Garak’s philosophy. But he did want companionship, and of course it helped that Bashir had a great curiosity about this mysterious alien. But basically, Garak seduces Bashir into this friendship.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/38 "2002-03-21T02:51:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\* IIRC, Roddenberry said there weren’t gays in the future, but he may have recanted on that (no, i don’t have a cite, any help here would be hot!). \*\* I thought Roddenberry said that homosexuality would be open and not an issue in the future. He may have been covering for not using the Gerrold story. BTW, how many of those worm books is he going to write?! ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2002, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453/39 "2002-03-21T04:11:38Z")
Thanks, Miss Mapp. Coolies. Very interesting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gays-in-star-trek/98453.md?page=1)