# Gaza Invasion: Why are Israeli casualties so light? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467 "2009-01-15T18:33:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/41 "2009-01-17T08:40:15Z")
The second most responsible group for the bloodshed (after Hamas) are the westerners who allow their disgust at the horrific situation to overwhelm their good sense. Of course, this is precisely the response Hamas is looking for. Hamas grins while butchering their own people, strapping bombs to their own children, firing rockets into Israeli schools from the middle of crowds of civilians, because they know a large portion of the western world will react to the horror by either giving in to Hamas, or just pretending both sides are evil. The truth is, we cannot let Hamas’ strategy work. We are all better off if Israel responds to acts of war as exactly what they are, rather than holding back because Hamas is using human shields. The problem is westerners who validate Hamas’ strategy, ensuring that they will keep using it and the violence will continue. If there was widespread agreement that it is not ok to use children as living bombs and shields, and that such a strategy will not be allowed to work, then Hamas would lose support. I will be the first to admit that it is hard to stomach… it is absolutely horrifying. But it is the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/42 "2009-01-17T09:58:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Jess - are you sure your “hospital” was in Jerusalem? > > From this list [here](http://www.science.co.il/Hospitals.asp?s=city), the following hospitals are in Jerusalem (West and East - they’re a single municipality): > None of those are “Jewish” or “Arab” hospitals - they are all state-owned (like all Israeli hospitals) employ doctors of both groups and accept patients regardless of race. > > Perhaps the place you visited was actually in Ramalla or Hebron (and thus run by the Palestinian Authority), or it was some fly-by-night neighborhood clinic. Absolutely! It was a few hundred yards to the left of the Damascus gate, just outside the Old City walls. (That’s in the Muslim quarter.) I used to live there, working in the missionary field, so I’m thoroughly familiar with the different regions of Israel. The well-established hospital was Palestinian run with exclusively Palestinian patients, and I was sent for by a friend who knew the girls because I’m an English-speaking physician. I don’t know the name of the hospital but it was there eleven years ago when my family and I left Israel. I have always thought a lot of the four teenage boys who ran through the streets in that heat, carrying the girls on hand stretchers, and of the kindness of the staff at the hospital for accommodating the girls. They quite literally saved their lives and wouldn’t take a shekel for it. It’s nearly always those who have the least who give the most, I’ve noticed, and not just in Israel - the trend appears to be universal. Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/43 "2009-01-17T10:12:08Z")
Morning Alessan: What you’ve stated about Jews and Palestinians receiving equal treatment at hospitals in Jerusalem is untrue - in the extreme. Please go to this Google page and click on any one of the sites and read. [East Jerusalem Palestinian hospitals - list - Google Search](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=East+Jerusalem+Palestinian+hospitals+-+list&btnG=Search) There’s nothing quite like being somewhere to clear your head of spin. - Jess. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/44 "2009-01-17T10:52:41Z")
> [@](#): > > **In practice, Israel does not permit Palestinian ambulances to reach Israeli hospitals, or even to reach Palestinian hospitals in East Jerusalem, without prior coordination, even if they are carrying patients in an urgent medical condition**. A series of directives contradicting the above-mentioned Procedure require that a Palestinian patient be transferred from a Palestinian ambulance to an Israeli ambulance at the checkpoints at the entrances to East Jerusalem in order to be taken to the Palestinian hospitals in the city. Even transfer by this method (known as “back-to-back”) is often denied, since it requires prior coordination with the Israeli Health Coordinator of the Civil Administration – something that is impossible in the case of an emergency. In many cases, therefore, ambulances return to the West Bank without transferring the patient to Jerusalem. At best, the ambulances are detained at the checkpoint for an extended period. > > [http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:7Ju9LpBvYJ8J:www.phr.org.il/phr/files/articlefile\_1189088056500.%25202007+East+Jerusalem+Palestinian+hospitals+-+list&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2](http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:7Ju9LpBvYJ8J:www.phr.org.il/phr/files/articlefile_1189088056500.%25202007+East+Jerusalem+Palestinian+hospitals+-+list&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2) What is stated on the news and taken to summits is nowhere near an accurate depiction of conditions in Israel and the surrounding countries. I know of no Jew who would consent to admission to a Palestinian hospital - and vice versa. That would be akin to Custer going to a Sioux or Cheyanne medicine man, or a Brit going to a Nazi hospital with an expectation of living. These people are at war, folks, they do not tolerate each other well. - Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/45 "2009-01-17T11:16:57Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **Declan** I heard that part of the difference between this and Lebanon is that Ehud Barak a real military man is leading it, in Lebanon there was some bureaucrat in charge. IIRC the offensive in Lebanon was led under the command of an airman fond of electronic warfare, the current one by an army man with more concern for land operations. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/46 "2009-01-17T14:46:02Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > Morning Alessan: > > What you’ve stated about Jews and Palestinians receiving equal treatment at hospitals in Jerusalem is untrue - in the extreme. Please go to this Google page and click on any one of the sites and read. [Google Search](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=East+Jerusalem+Palestinian+hospitals+-+list&btnG=Search) You’re new here… so it’s understandable that you’ve not yet realized that a scattershot list of raw google hits (or “google vomit”) isn’t a good way to provide cites. As it is, the cite you did give doesn’t give a full picture. The reason that Palestinian ambulances aren’t given freedom of movement is because [they’re often used to transport explosives](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=9&url=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.thelancet.com%2Fextras%2F02art8008web.pdf&ei=cOpxSYihE9Ljtgee46XMCA&usg=AFQjCNGBa5Y0lUV3HDbOgeQlUFKArEIqWg&sig2=ZZApE_l_fyK6nK5GUHokIg) or sometimes [as troop carriers.](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.israelnationalnews.com%2Fnews.php3%3Fid%3D63212&ei=w-1xScuoJ9PGtgfP_7DYCA&usg=AFQjCNGrlBtMllUMxTCc-YmFfWICuTg_ng&sig2=FrrY1p1Tia00_wBStOhCuw) Now that doesn’t necessarily mean that Israel shouldn’t streamline things as much as possible, but simply mentioning the problems Palestinian ambulances face without mentioning _why_ is a bit odd. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/47 "2009-01-17T15:45:58Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > Hello ralph! > > Comparing Israel’s resources to that of the Palestinians is like comparing a mountain to a pebble. The majority of Palestinians live in squalor and abject poverty while most Israelis enjoy a high standard of living. > > In Jerusalem, the Palestinian hospital I had occasion to visit didn’t even own a mop with which to clean up vomit. They (the Palestinians) were caring for two young European tourists who foolishly went on the trek to Masada without sufficient fluids in 120 degree heat. That such poverty should exist in the midst of such wealth does not speak well for the humanity of the well-to-do in the area. The Jewish hospital, two kilometers away, has… everything. ☹ It wasn’t the best day I’ve ever had. However, the two young ladies did recover, thank God! > > They have no money for weapons, ralph - or very little of it. > > Jesse. The Palestinian authority received (since their independence) over $5 billion-from the EU and the USA-did all of it wind up in swiss bank accounts? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/48 "2009-01-17T17:55:12Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > In Jerusalem, the Palestinian hospital I had occasion to visit didn’t even own a mop with which to clean up vomit. > > . . . > > The Jewish hospital, two kilometers away, has… everything. ☹ It wasn’t the best day I’ve ever had. I call BS . . . what are the names of these two hospitals? > [@](#): > > They have no money for weapons, ralph - or very little of it. I did a google image search for “gaza militants” and they appear to have plenty of weapons to me. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/49 "2009-01-17T19:20:41Z")
**Alessan** , aren’t there hospitals whose patient mix is more Arab or Jewish? For example, there is [The St John Eye Hospital](http://www.stjohneyehospital.org/content.asp?catid=35&id=35) which primarily serves the Arab population. (And by their report is equipped “to an exceptional high standard”), and [The Augusta Victoria Hospital](http://www.wfn.org/1998/12/msg00368.html) which serves Arabs of both Jerusalem and the West bank (more about that institution [here.](http://www.thelutheran.org/article/article.cfm?article_id=5189&key=26925719)) Maybe that list only lists those that are officially part of the Israeli healthcare system and these ones are privately owned and run outside of it? They seem to focus on serving the Arabs of the West Bank who obviously do not have coverage as Israeli citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/50 "2009-01-17T19:45:40Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I call BS . . . what are the names of these two hospitals? > > I did a google image search for “gaza militants” and they appear to have plenty of weapons to me. I don’t know the names of the hospitals, Brazil. I don’t know the names of the schools or fire stations either. Do you know the names of all the institutions where you live? I was preoccupied with saving the life of sixteen-year-old girl and her eighteen-year-old friend on the ONE occasion I had cause to visit that hospital. I was in Isra-el as a missionary - not the town surveyor. I can tell you where the Yad Vashem is, does that count? :rolleyes: I’ve even spent LOTS of time at the Garden Tomb, in the Garden of Gethsemane, and dozens more places in which I actively had an interest. Most of my time, however, was spent conducting clandestine Bible studies with Muslims and Bedouins ensconced underneath stairwells and similar cubbyholes. If you’re going to use profanity then at least be man enough to come out and say it. Bullshit isn’t much of an insult, but we do strive for accuracy on this forum. 😉 When you’ve spent thirty-five years preaching and teaching the Gospel in life-threatening conditions in Israel and other places, then perhaps I’ll be interested in what you think you do and don’t know (or believe) about weaponry and the names of local institutions. Have a spectacular day! I KNOW The Lord made armchair quarterbacks for a good reason - just can’t figure out what it is! :smack: Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/51 "2009-01-17T20:02:14Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Alessan** , aren’t there hospitals whose patient mix is more Arab or Jewish? > > For example, there is [The St John Eye Hospital](http://www.stjohneyehospital.org/content.asp?catid=35&id=35) which primarily serves the Arab population. (And by their report is equipped “to an exceptional high standard”), and [The Augusta Victoria Hospital](http://www.wfn.org/1998/12/msg00368.html) which serves Arabs of both Jerusalem and the West bank (more about that institution [here.](http://www.thelutheran.org/article/article.cfm?article_id=5189&key=26925719)) > > Maybe that list only lists those that are officially part of the Israeli healthcare system and these ones are privately owned and run outside of it? They seem to focus on serving the Arabs of the West Bank who obviously do not have coverage as Israeli citizens. Umm… left of the Damascus Gate takes you to **East** Jerusalem - the Muslim area. Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/52 "2009-01-17T20:10:08Z")
Umm … yeah? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/53 "2009-01-17T20:11:10Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > I don’t know the names of the hospitals, Brazil. I don’t know the names of the schools or fire stations either. Do you know the names of all the institutions where you live? I certainly know the names of every hospital where I have visited a patient. As well as the names of most hospitals I have had occasion to visit for any reason. The names I have forgotten, I could easily look up on the internet based on my recollection of their locations. Not only that, but it’s not credible to me that there is a hospital in Jerusalem which is so poor that it cannot afford to purchase basic sanitation equipment such as mops but still has enough money to pay for doctors, nurses, and other personnel necessary to keep the hospital’s doors open. As noted before, I think your claim is incorrect. > [@](#): > > I can tell you where the Yad Vashem is, does that count? 😕 I have no reason to doubt that you have spent time in Israel. > [@](#): > > When you’ve spent thirty-five years preaching and teaching the Gospel in life-threatening conditions in Israel and other places, then perhaps I’ll be interested in what you think you do and don’t know (or believe) about weaponry and the names of local institutions. I’ve never been to Israel and I’ve never taught the Gospel but I have plenty of experience with people making self-serving and untrue claims to me and that’s what counts here. You can’t provide any cite to back up your claim; you can’t even produce the name of this supposed hospital. I’ll draw my own conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/54 "2009-01-17T20:13:17Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > It’s nearly always those who have the least who give the most, I’ve noticed, and not just in Israel - the trend appears to be universal. :shrug: If I had a choice between showing up gravely ill and impecunious at a hospital in Harare and at a hospital in New York, I know which I would choose. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/55 "2009-01-17T21:12:15Z")
[quote=“brazil84, post:53, topic:481467”] > [@](#): > > I certainly know the names of every hospital where I have visited a patient. As well as the names of most hospitals I have had occasion to visit for any reason. The names I have forgotten, I could easily look up on the internet based on my recollection of their locations. > > Not only that, but it’s not credible to me that there is a hospital in Jerusalem which is so poor that it cannot afford to purchase basic sanitation equipment such as mops but still has enough money to pay for doctors, nurses, and other personnel necessary to keep the hospital’s doors open. > > As noted before, I think your claim is incorrect. I did not make a claim, I related a personal experience and one fact about the hospital’s ability to purchase a mop. Now, why didn’t I think to ask how the doctors and nurses were recompensed? Even if my thoughts had been hovering in that area, I would have considered it rather poor form to question a physician about his/her salary. Truthfully, I was more concerned about the conditions at the hospital than the salaries of it’s employees. Perhaps they volunteered. Some of us do you know. > [@](#): > > 😕 I have no reason to doubt that you have spent time in Israel . Whew! I’m so relieved. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > I’ve never been to Israel and I’ve never taught the Gospel but I have plenty of experience with people making self-serving and untrue claims to me and that’s what counts here . Did I misread your above paragraph, or did you just call me a liar? So, it didn’t happen because YOU weren’t there. A little arrogant don’t you think so? You say you are a physician - PROVE IT! PROVE you know the name of the hospitals you have had occasion to visit! PROVE I am not telling the truth! If you cannot (and you cannot), you have libeled me. Shame on you! > [@](#): > > You can’t provide any cite to back up your claim; you can’t even produce the name of this supposed hospital. I’ll draw my own conclusions. Be my guest. If you treat your patients with the same arrogant manner you display here, it won’t be long before you are impecunious. Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/56 "2009-01-17T21:21:49Z")
Brazil… Call _any_ hospital and talk to _any_ doctor in East Jerusalem and ask _them_ about conditions there. That’s all the proof you’ll need. You’ve obviously never seen real poverty, let alone experienced it. You are far from impecunious, I challenge you to call them. I won’t hold my breath waiting for your apology. Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/57 "2009-01-17T23:32:48Z")
Hello Ralph! > [@](#): > > The Palestinian authority received (since their independence) over $5 billion-from the EU and the USA-did all of it wind up in swiss bank accounts? I wouldn’t know. As I mentioned previously, my family and I left Isra-el eleven years ago, and the incident I mentioned took place only weeks prior to our leaving. I can’t say with any certainty anything other than to reassert my original point, which is that these people are at war and they are _not_ on anything like an equal footing financially. The desperation there eleven years ago was bad enough, with six soldiers with well-worn machine guns sitting on every local transit bus, the IDF knocking on your door at 3 a.m. demanding your papers etc. Not what one would call fun. The only side I’m on is that of PEACE. I have no personal bias against any race on Earth. It is clear, from the comments on this thread, that many here are unaware of the horrific level of poverty there though, and that is why I bothered to post in the first place. If the Palestinian Authority was given as much as you say they were then the money certainly isn’t going to their people. Israel is still easily the wealthier of the two countries and it is backed by the United States. Given that the U.S. is bankrupt that shouldn’t be much of a boon, but the rest of the world cannot (YET) permit the US dollar to fail completely. It’s fiat money, backed by nothing but the confidence of the people, but… that’s another thread. Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/58 "2009-01-18T00:12:36Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > Brazil… > > Call _any_ hospital and talk to _any_ doctor in East Jerusalem and ask _them_ about conditions there. That’s all the proof you’ll need. It’s not my responsibility to go looking for proof for your claims. You claimed that a certain hospital cannot afford mops, and yet you cannot even name the hospital. > [@](#): > > So, it didn’t happen because YOU weren’t there. I have my own rules of debate. One rule is that you can’t attack strawmen, i.e. you can’t misrepresent my position. Please either (1) show me where I argued that your experience did not happen because I was not there; or (2) admit that I made no such argument and apologize. Your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/59 "2009-01-18T01:12:48Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > When you’ve spent thirty-five years preaching and teaching the Gospel in life-threatening conditions in Israel and other places, then perhaps I’ll be interested in what you think you do and don’t know (or believe) about weaponry and the names of local institutions. I don’t think it’s too much to ask for some independently-verifiable facts. This isn’t about God, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467/60 "2009-01-18T01:47:19Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > It’s not my responsibility to go looking for proof for your claims. You claimed that a certain hospital cannot afford mops, and yet you cannot even name the hospital. > > I have my own rules of debate. One rule is that you can’t attack strawmen, i.e. you can’t misrepresent my position. Please either (1) show me where I argued that your experience did not happen because I was not there; or (2) admit that I made no such argument and apologize. > > Your choice. Brazil… In post #48, you called my story about the lack of a mop **‘BS.’** In post #53, you said my story was **‘Not credible’** and **‘Incorrect.’** In post #55. you made the following statements, > [@](#): > > I’ve never been to Israel and I’ve never taught the Gospel but I have plenty of experience with people making self-serving and **untrue claims** to me and that’s what counts here [QUOTE] You can’t provide any cite to back up your claim; you can’t even produce the name of this **supposed** hospital. \*\*I’ll draw my own conclusions.[/\*\*QUOTE] You failed to address whether **you called me a liar** when I asked if I’d misread your paragraph. It certainly reads that way to me. I told you a true story about an experience of mine and you think it’s Bullshit, not credible, incorrect, and implied that the hospital doesn’t exist - ‘Supposed hospital,’ and you stated that you’d draw your own conclusions, \*\*strongly \*\*implying that you do not believe what I told you. I didn’t know, on that day, that eleven years down the road I would relate that experience on a BB in a debate forum. I have led a rich, full life and have many experiences, as most people do. The NAME of the hospital wasn’t important to me. It still isn’t, but I don’t expect to be called a liar and ‘self-serving’ (where are you pulling that one from?) because I bother to try to explain to people what other people are coping with half way round the world. Is this the measure of a gentleman in the circles in which you travel? Rude, arrogant, presumptuous behavior, and all of this directed toward a lady? There are days in this life when I thank GOD with an increased intensity and fervor for my own husband, who knows how to treat other human beings with honor and respect. Jesse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-invasion-why-are-israeli-casualties-so-light/481467.md?page=4)