# Gaza Strip - why do news reports ignore the border with Egypt? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673 "2008-01-23T15:27:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/1 "2008-01-23T15:27:02Z")
This is a question, but I can see it easily leading to a debate, so I’ll stick it here. News reports routinely say that residents of the Gaza Strip are “trapped” or “imprisoned” by the Israeli blockade. See this [article](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1694477,00.html) in Time magazine, for example: > [@](#): > > Captive, unfortunately, is the right word because the Israelis, who are contending daily with rocket-firing Palestinian militants, have destroyed the airport and harbor and keep Gaza’s inhabitants behind a concrete-and-barbed-wire fence that is 25 miles (40 km) long. Gaza has one entry and exit point, which the Israelis strictly control. Gazans refer to their overcrowded enclave without too much exaggeration as “the world’s largest prison yard.” But a quick look at a map of Gaza shows that it has a border with Egypt. See the wiki article on [Gaza Strip](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip), for example. I doubt that the Israelis control the Gaza-Egypt border, do they? So why do journalists make it sound as if Israel has sole control over access to Gaza? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/2 "2008-01-23T15:36:51Z")
Because until this morning, there was a big-assed wall all along the Egyptian side of the strip. If I understand corectly, the Egyptian wall has been in place for years, and is thus not as news-worthy as the recent closure of the Israeli side. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/3 "2008-01-23T15:37:03Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] This is a question, but I can see it easily leading to a debate, so I’ll stick it here. News reports routinely say that residents of the Gaza Strip are “trapped” or “imprisoned” by the Israeli blockade. See this [article](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1694477,00.html) in Time magazine, for example: But a quick look at a map of Gaza shows that it has a border with Egypt. See the wiki article on [Gaza Strip](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip), for example. I doubt that the Israelis control the Gaza-Egypt border, do they? So why do journalists make it sound as if Israel has sole control over access to Gaza? [/QUOTE] Egypt controls that border but can only open it with the consent of Israel. The Egyptian regime is no more a fan of islamic fundamentalism than Israel. [link](http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL035670420080103?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0) > [@](#): > > Israel has no presence at Rafah although a U.S.-brokered deal between it and the Palestinians says the crossing cannot be opened without Israeli consent. Egypt has mostly kept Rafah closed since Hamas routed Abbas’s Fatah faction in Gaza in June. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/4 "2008-01-23T15:47:25Z")
Well, if Gaza is isolated jointly by Israel and Egypt, why don’t the news reports say that? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/5 "2008-01-23T16:15:08Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] Well, if Gaza is isolated jointly by Israel and Egypt, why don’t the news reports say that? [/QUOTE] Because it is Israel that controls both borders in practice with Egypt as their janitor. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/6 "2008-01-23T16:18:58Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] Well, if Gaza is isolated jointly by Israel and Egypt, why don’t the news reports say that? [/QUOTE] I suspect that Israel would never ever ever have agreed to a situation where Gaza had an open border with Egypt, so Egypt doesn’t really have any choice but to police the border and try to stop the Palestinians from digging tunnels. The only country that really has any choice as to whether Gaza is open or closed is Israel. Imagine Egypt opening the border; imagine how long the Israelis would allow that state of affairs to last. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/7 "2008-01-23T16:32:47Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] Egypt controls that border but can only open it with the consent of Israel. [/quote] Pure fiction. And your own cite proves that claim, and shows that they engaged in horribly shoddy journalism. From the very first words of your cite: > [@](#): > > Israel accused Egypt on Thursday of undercutting Israeli-Palestinian peace prospects by letting about 2,200 Palestinian pilgrims return to the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip without Israeli screening. > > The Palestinians had been stuck in Egypt for about a week after completing the Muslim haj pilgrimage to Mecca, Saudi Arabia. > > Israel insisted they return to Gaza through its territory to allow them to be screened for smuggled cash or weapons. > > But Egypt allowed them to return directly through Rafah, a terminal on its border with Gaza. Obviously, Israel neither controls Egypt’s border nor can Egypt not open it without consent. I have no idea how you missed this fact, as you just provided the cite I’m quoting from. > [@Sophistry and Illusion](#): > > Imagine Egypt opening the border; imagine how long the Israelis would allow that state of affairs to last. Egypt _did_ open the border. What do you claim Israel did to stop Egypt? > [@Northern Piper](#): > > Well, if Gaza is isolated jointly by Israel and Egypt, why don’t the news reports say that? Because on this subject, most of the MSM throughout the world has adopted a strange, false-to-facts narrative that they stick to, regardless of what the truth actually is. For about six decades now, many countries in the Arab world have done everything they can to keep the Palestinians poor, desperate and disenfranchised. Up to and including adopting apartheid laws making it illegal for Palestinians to work in or become citizens of their countries, among other prohibitions. That isn’t “news” and doesn’t fit the MSM narrative. “Arabs oppress Palestinians” is something they have no idea how to include in their paradigm. “Palestinian victims oppressed by Israeli warmongers” is something that they’re comfortable with. Not only do the actual facts of the matter show that Egypt can make up its own mind, but in the past Egyptian border guards have [beaten to death](http://news.monstersandcritics.com/africa/news/article_1338201.php/Egyptian_soldiers_kill_Sudanese_refugees_at_Israeli_border_report) people who were trying to cross, even though their IDF mirrors were not only saying it was okay to let them cross, but were _trying to help them cross_. The simple truth is that many folks, MSM and otherwise, have a view of the Israeli-Palestine conflict, and facts only induce cognitive dissonance. It’s a shame, but that’s the situation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/8 "2008-01-23T16:36:12Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] Well, if Gaza is isolated jointly by Israel and Egypt, why don’t the news reports say that? [/QUOTE] I can’t cite this because I just heard it on the news last night (not sure which network), but I distinctly remember them saying that Palestinians in Gaza clashed with Egyptian border guards. So there’s one piece of evidence that it is reported. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/9 "2008-01-23T16:38:15Z")
**FinnAgain** , the very passage you quoted refutes you. > [@](#): > > Israel accused Egypt on Thursday of undercutting Israeli-Palestinian peace prospects by letting about 2,200 Palestinian pilgrims return to the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip without Israeli screening. Israel demands control of this crossing, in the sense of demanding the right to screen anyone who crosses. What I was saying was that anyone who thinks the Egyptians could just throw open their borders to the Palestinians without suffering retaliation at the hands of the US and Israel is mistaken. I’m not denying that most Arab states don’t give two shits about the Palestinians and cynically use them as a political tool. But that is a slightly separate question. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/10 "2008-01-23T16:53:44Z")
Some more info on the fallacious claim that Egypt doesn’t have control of the border, or that they only do at Israel’s bidding: [ > [@](#): > > Posted Egypt’s President Hosni Mubarak says he personally authorised the crossing of thousands of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip into his country. ]([ABC News & Headlines – Australian Broadcasting Corporation](http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/24/2145141.htm)) [QUOTE=John Mace] I can’t cite this because I just heard it on the news last night (not sure which network), but I distinctly remember them saying that Palestinians in Gaza clashed with Egyptian border guards. So there’s one piece of evidence that it is reported. [/QUOTE] Many MSM outlset _do_ sometimes report on border clashes with Egypt. They _also_ repeat spurious claims that Israel has sole control over all of Gaza’s borders. As has been known to happen, the same news organization might publish a report about how Egypt let people cross the border one day, and then a little bit later, post a story reiterating the claim that Israel has sole control. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch. > [@Sophistry and Illusion](#): > > FinnAgain, the very passage you quoted refutes you. Sure, if by refute you mean confirms. > [@Sophistry and Illusion](#): > > Israel demands control of this crossing, in the sense of demanding the right to screen anyone who crosses. What I was saying was that anyone who thinks the Egyptians could just throw open their borders to the Palestinians without suffering retaliation at the hands of the US and Israel is mistaken. Whatever Israel demands, the **fact** of the matter is that they do not control the border with Egypt nor does Egypt have to ask Israel’s permission. Israel demanding something is **not** proof of the fact that its demands are followed. More to the point, that Israel can demand things and **not** have its demands followed shows the effectiveness of Israel’s demands when Egypt feels disinclined to agree. And what’s more, the same Disengagement Plan that set up the basis for Israel’s demands also says that Gaza will be weapon-free. The continual barrage of rockets puts paid to that, as well. Israel demanding something and that actually being reality are two wildly different things. In fact, the most recent [international agreement](http://www.consilium.europa.eu/ueDocs/cms_Data/docs/pressData/en/declarations/86968.pdf) does **not** grant Israel veto power. It is also a _more recent agreement than the Disengagement Plan_. Further, as confirmed even by the **Palestinian** government: [ > [@](#): > > “This is the first time in history we will run an international passage by ourselves, and it’s the first time Israel does not have a veto over our ability to do so,” said Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator with Israel. ]([http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111500144.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111500144.html)) Nor does retaliation mean that Egypt doesn’t have control over the border and exercise that control when they feel like it. Egypt _can and has_ opened its border. What retaliation from Israel and/or the US occurred in the past? What do you predict will occur with today’s events? Even if there is retaliation, does that mean Egypt doesn’t have control, and can’t choose when to exercise it? Or that it does have control and the choice of when to use it, but it can face consequences for that? To head off quibbles at the pass: yes, the “no veto” agreement was reached in 2005, before Hamas essentially declared war on Israel. But even in that context, which obviously invalidates certain agreements, Israel still does not have control over Egypt’s actions. Egypt is sovereign, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/11 "2008-01-23T17:01:02Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Nor does retaliation mean that Egypt doesn’t have control over the border and exercise that control when they feel like it. Egypt _can and has_ opened its border. What retaliation from Israel and/or the US occurred in the past? What do you predict will occur with today’s events? Even if there is retaliation, does that mean Egypt doesn’t have control, and can’t choose when to exercise it? Or that it does have control and the choice of when to use it, but it can face consequences for that? [/QUOTE] It has control over the border in the same sense that I have the power to taunt to school bully. I can do a little here, and a little there, but there is always the threat of getting my ass seriously kicked. Israel lets a lot slide, because Israel doesn’t want to jeopardize its peace treaty with Egypt; but Egypt just doesn’t have the cards in this game: Israel (with its powerful army) and the US (with its purse strings) are the ones holding the cards. I will ask you again the question I asked earlier: what do you think Israel’s response would be if Egypt opened the border with Gaza permanently and allowed people to come and go as they pleased, all the time, without undue hindrance, allowed trucks and other freight-bearing vehicles to cross to and fro, just as bordering nations usually do? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/12 "2008-01-23T17:04:46Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] I will ask you again the question I asked earlier: what do you think Israel’s response would be if Egypt opened the border with Gaza permanently and allowed people to come and go as they pleased, all the time, without undue hindrance, just as bordering nations usually do? [/QUOTE] I’m no expert on this subject, but it seems to me that: 1. Gaza isn’t a normal “bordering nation”, so what is usually done isn’t the standard to go by. 2. Doesn’t Egypt have its own reasons, independent of Israel, for not having an open border policy? Do they want more Palestinian refugees on their hands? ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/13 "2008-01-23T17:08:50Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I’m no expert on this subject, but it seems to me that: 1. Gaza isn’t a normal “bordering nation”, so what is usually done isn’t the standard to go by. 2. Doesn’t Egypt have its own reasons, independent of Israel, for not having an open border policy? Do they want more Palestinian refugees on their hands? [/QUOTE] Of course, Egypt doesn’t want Palestinians streaming into their country, for a variety of reasons. But the issue being debated here is whether Egypt controls its border with Gaza. And I am arguing that even if Egypt wanted an open border, and wanted to allow fuel, food and other commodities to be freely traded across that border, Israel wouldn’t allow it. The OP is implying that Egypt is complicit in the suffering of the Gazans because they help maintain the blockade on Gaza. I’m saying the issue is more complicated than that. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/14 "2008-01-23T17:10:31Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] It has control over the border in the same sense that I have the power to taunt to school bully. I can do a little here, and a little there, but there is always the threat of getting my ass seriously kicked. [/quote] In other words, Israel does **not** control Egypt’s border, Egypt **can** act without Israel’s sanction, but then Israel might do something in response. Which is, pretty much, the exact opposite of claiming that Israel _does_ control Egypt’s border and that Egypt _can not_ open the border without Israel approval. It is disingenuous to claim that Egypt cannot do something when they can and have done it. Your standard of being able to do something boils down to the laws of cause and effect being suspended and nobody being able to act in response to what you do. That’s a sophomoric notion of ‘freedom’. Yes, Egypt controls is borders. Yes, they can and have acted unilaterally. Claiming otherwise is simply not factual. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/15 "2008-01-23T17:12:59Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Yes, Egypt controls is borders. Yes, they can and have acted unilaterally. Claiming otherwise is simply not factual. [/QUOTE] I’m still waiting for you to answer my question. When you have answered it, then we can talk about whether the power Egypt exercises over its border with Gaza amounts to control. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/16 "2008-01-23T17:18:44Z")
I just heard on [Democracy Now!](http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/23/headlines#1) (definitely not MSM) that Palestinians are flooding into Egypt to buy supplies after a militant group blew up a section of the wall. No word on whether Egyptian authorities are doing anything to stop them. Meanwhile, the U.S. is blocking a UN resolution condemning Israel for the Gaza blockade. I hope not even **FinnAgain** would presume to defend the U.S. action here. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/17 "2008-01-23T17:22:14Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] I’m still waiting for you to answer my question. When you have answered it, then we can talk about whether the power Egypt exercises over its border with Gaza amounts to control. [/QUOTE] I already answered it, twice. Let me quote it back to you again. > [@](#): > > Nor does retaliation mean that Egypt doesn’t have control over the border and exercise that control when they feel like it. Egypt can and has opened its border. What retaliation from Israel and/or the US occurred in the past? What do you predict will occur with today’s events? Even if there is retaliation, does that mean Egypt doesn’t have control, and can’t choose when to exercise it? Or that it does have control and the choice of when to use it, but it can face consequences for that? > [@](#): > > In other words, Israel does not control Egypt’s border, Egypt can act without Israel’s sanction, but then Israel might do something in response. Which is, pretty much, the exact opposite of claiming that Israel does control Egypt’s border and that Egypt can not open the border without Israel approval. > It is disingenuous to claim that Egypt cannot do something when they can and have done it. > Your standard of being able to do something boils down to the laws of cause and effect being suspended and nobody being able to act in response to what you do. That’s a sophomoric notion of ‘freedom’. > Yes, Egypt controls is borders. Yes, they can and have acted unilaterally. Claiming otherwise is simply not factual. No matter what retaliation Israel, the US, God or J.R. “Bob” Dobbs engaged in, Egypt still has control over its border and can, and has, opened it when it wanted. Pointing out that there are **consequences** to making a decision does not mean that someone cannot make the decision. The simple fact is that Egypt can open its borders. Egypt has opened its borders. And Egypt does not require Israel’s say so in order to do so. These are just **facts**. They’re nice and objective that way. Influence does not equal control. Consequences do not equal control. Control equals control, and when Egypt **can and has** exercised control over its border, that puts paid to the untruth that Egypt cannot exercise control over its border. So if you’re rather not admit that Egypt controlling its border means that Egypt controls its border, that’s fine. You can go back to waiting. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/18 "2008-01-23T17:23:04Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] Of course, Egypt doesn’t want Palestinians streaming into their country, for a variety of reasons. But the issue being debated here is whether Egypt controls its border with Gaza. And I am arguing that even if Egypt wanted an open border, and wanted to allow fuel, food and other commodities to be freely traded across that border, Israel wouldn’t allow it. The OP is implying that Egypt is complicit in the suffering of the Gazans because they help maintain the blockade on Gaza. I’m saying the issue is more complicated than that. [/QUOTE] Like I said, I’m not an expert. But I only see your opinion that Egypt is acting out of fear of Israeli retaliation. Can you offer some cites or some other evidence other than a hypothetical of what we think would happen? I honestly don’t know what would happen. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/19 "2008-01-23T17:28:46Z")
Of course Egypt controls its own border with Gaza. But a border has two sides. If Egypt decides to allow Palestinians to cross it, that makes no difference unless the Israelis (not the Palestinians) decide the same – or unless the Palestinians force a breach, as appears to have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673/20 "2008-01-23T17:30:31Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] So if you’re rather not admit that Egypt controlling its border means that Egypt controls its border, that’s fine. You can go back to waiting. [/QUOTE] Okay. So your answer is, “Egypt is free to open its border sporadically and risk Israeli retaliation, and is free to attempt to open its border permanently and thereby guarantee Israeli retaliation and subsequent Israeli-enforced closure of the border. And that means that Egypt exercises control over its border with Gaza.” Fine, but that’s bullshit. That’s like telling me I’m free to leave the house, but you’ll break both my legs if you catch me outside. I might risk the occasional foray, but I’m going to feel pretty much trapped. If any country enforced this situation on the US vis-a-vis a bordering entity, the US congress would probably regard this as an act of war. There is little freedom where there is a constant threat against you lest you exercise this freedom. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaza-strip-why-do-news-reports-ignore-the-border-with-egypt/434673.md?page=2)