# Gearheads: What is your opinion/experiences with FRAM oil filters? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 19, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399 "2016-09-19T23:57:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/21 "2016-09-20T16:19:16Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > I’ll stick to not using FRAM filters. A few bucks at each oil change is cheap insurance. And I’ll stick to using Fram, because in my experience the quality is fine. Not picking on you specifically, but you’re doing the same thing, you anonymous person on the internet. You got good life out of your cars, but do you know for sure why? Did you do a double-blind test, where two identical cars were run through the same conditions, the only difference is that one used Fram, and the other used not-Fram? Because otherwise your anecdotal data point is no different than my anecdotal data point. Can you state with certainty that your non-Fram filter is the reason your engines lasted? Maybe you’re just throwing “a few bucks at each oil change” away? ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/22 "2016-09-20T16:58:34Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > And I’ll stick to using Fram, because in my experience the quality is fine. > > Not picking on you specifically, but you’re doing the same thing, you anonymous person on the internet. You got good life out of your cars, but do you know for sure why? Did you do a double-blind test, where two identical cars were run through the same conditions, the only difference is that one used Fram, and the other used not-Fram? Because otherwise your anecdotal data point is no different than my anecdotal data point. Can you state with certainty that your non-Fram filter is the reason your engines lasted? Maybe you’re just throwing “a few bucks at each oil change” away? Yep, I’m perfectly aware of that. 🙂 I’ll still find somewhere else in my life to save $5 before I cheap out on an oil filter. Cheap insurance, even if I will never “know” that it matters. I do know this. If I’m buying a car from a private seller, one of the things I do is look under the front end and see what brand of oil filter is there. I consider it a good indicator of if they were a “bare minimum” or a “better than I need to be” caretaker of their car. Truly, this is a YMMV discussion. I’m perfectly aware that I’m a little over the top on mechanical stuff. I’m a single guy with three cars and two motorcycles!:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/23 "2016-09-20T17:00:52Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > Fan wankery at it’s worst. Paraphrasing: > > “This filter is terrible because I broke the filter adaptor when I removed it.” > > “This is garbage because the manufacturer used cardboard in places where **I** believe it should have been METAL METAL METAL!” > > Seriously? Some guy with a bandsaw and an internet connection knows better than Fram? And you took his word over a company that has an extensive testing and research facility, and has probably sold billions of oil filters? then why ask the question if you’re just going to crap all over responses you disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/24 "2016-09-20T17:07:52Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > then why ask the question if you’re just going to crap all over responses you disagree with? I’m not the OP, I didn’t ask the question. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/25 "2016-09-20T17:16:28Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > I’m not the OP, I didn’t ask the question. whatever. enjoy the rest of the discussion. I’m out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/26 "2016-09-20T17:17:52Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Sturgeon’s Law. > [ul] > [li]Popularity is not indicative of quality[/li][li]Most things are crap[/li][/ul] > Popularity and quality aren’t highly correlated and most things aren’t very good, so it’s not a surprise that most popular things aren’t very good! Sturgeon’s Law is meant to apply to pieces of literature and art. Not consumer goods. It gives the cynic the ability to look sophisticated instead of merely cynical. > [@leftfield6](#): > > Fram has invested heavily in these areas. And I’m sure they’ve invested heavily in R & D as well, but they have chosen to be the “low cost provider”, so their research has been around providing a decent product that can be sold for less than $5. A decent product that sells for less than $5. The monsters. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/27 "2016-09-20T17:19:18Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > whatever. enjoy the rest of the discussion. I’m out of it. I guess I got you on the technicality of “not being the OP.” OK, bye. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/28 "2016-09-20T17:56:07Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Cheap insurance, even if I will never “know” that it matters. That’s the point though- cheap insurance against what exactly? Having some sort of engine-related failure at 350k miles instead of 325k for the FRAM filter? Like others have said, the sheer number of them that have been in use in millions of vehicles over billions of miles points to them being adequate at worst. Maybe they’re not premium, but they’ll do the job just fine. Anecdotally, my dad drove a 1982 Pontiac Bonneville for 250k using whatever oil was cheapest/filter was cheapest or whatever quicky lube place was cheapest. Engine never failed. Running German Castrol and a Mobil 1 filter wouldn’t have changed a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/29 "2016-09-20T18:14:19Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > whatever. enjoy the rest of the discussion. I’m out of it. 'Twas I that did the asking! I appreciate your input, as you always have something to contribute to the gearhead threads. I invite you to stick around. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/30 "2016-09-20T18:24:52Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s the point though- cheap insurance against what exactly? Having some sort of engine-related failure at 350k miles instead of 325k for the FRAM filter? > > Like others have said, the sheer number of them that have been in use in millions of vehicles over billions of miles points to them being adequate at worst. Maybe they’re not premium, but they’ll do the job just fine. > > … The point is this - I have three cars, let’s say I do 2 oil changes per year per car. 6 total oil changes. Each time I spend $5 more by NOT buying a Fram. $30. A year. Who gives a shit, at that price? When I can do my research and see that Fram uses lower quality materials, I’m not going to spend an extra $30 total a year? Uh, nope, I’m not going to save that $30. Luckily, I’m at a point in my life where $30 a year is zilch to me. Not saying it’s the right answer for everyone, but since the OP asked… ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/31 "2016-09-20T18:26:09Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Actually not surprised that the guys at the local JiffyLube don’t know if there have been any failures. The majority of people who go to a local lube shop see their car as an appliance, pure a to b transportation. When their engine fails or begins running poorly at 180K, they junk it and go buy another appliance. No one performs a post mortem to see why it failed. Part of our throw it away society. I know I’m beating a dead horse into a greasy splotch. 😛 But you’d be surprised how quick customers are to blame QuickyJiffy when things failed in their cars. We had a monthly budget for sending vehicles to the dealer if our techs broke something or if a vocal customer believed we had. I had one claim I’ll never forget, mostly because I knew I had broken something and I stayed silent. ☹ Standard procedure was to grease a joint until you saw old grease coming out of the joint. I didn’t know that Ford used a new style of sealed grease boot on their Rangers, and accidentally overfilled one until it burst as I waiting to see old grease. I wiped up the explosion and let the vehicle roll. My boss let me know about a month later that they were repairing the boot at the local dealer and I kinda just hung my head. Anyways, if a pressure by-pass valve had failed 5 miles into the filter’s life, and an engine seized 4,000 miles later, you bet I would have heard about it from the customer, my boss, the gloating dealership, the mailman, etc. A seized engine due to an oil filter would have started a company wide discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/32 "2016-09-20T18:47:10Z")
A hundred years ago I used to always use FRAM and, I must admit, never had any problems. But I read the other message boards, saw the independent investigations and decided to use Purolator or Wix or OEM instead. They aren’t that much more expensive. I honestly don’t know if they make much of a difference, but I guess I have that peace of mind just in case. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/33 "2016-09-20T18:54:42Z")
Just checked Amazon. Here are the actual differences in price between the Fram oil filter and the K&N filter for my three vehicles. Honda Ridgeline - Fram is $4.63, the K&N is $10.15 Mini Cooper S - Fram is $12.66, the K&N is $13.40 BMW 320is $11.04, the Mobil1 filter is $12.69 (no K&N available for this older car) So, again using my 2 times a year per car example, this is now a yearly cost of actually only $15.82. So, again, why are we willing to settle for something described as “adequate at worst”? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/34 "2016-09-20T19:18:57Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > So, again, why are we willing to settle for something described as “adequate at worst”? “We” aren’t settling. I LIKE Fram. I do not describe them as “adequate at worst”. I have used them my entire car-working life. I will continue to do so. You are welcome, as always, to use whatever you like, for whatever reason. I’m not even thinking bad thoughts about your reasons. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/35 "2016-09-20T19:24:16Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > “We” aren’t settling. I LIKE Fram. I do not describe them as “adequate at worst”. I have used them my entire car-working life. I will continue to do so. > > You are welcome, as always, to use whatever you like, for whatever reason. I’m not even thinking bad thoughts about your reasons. 🙂 Yeah, it was **Whiskey Dickens** who described them as adequate at worst, not you. No worries, use whatcha want to use. Just know I’m not ever going to buy a used car from you! :D:D;) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/36 "2016-09-20T20:50:46Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Just checked Amazon. Here are the actual differences in price between the Fram oil filter and the K&N filter for my three vehicles. > > Honda Ridgeline - Fram is $4.63, the K&N is $10.15 > Mini Cooper S - Fram is $12.66, the K&N is $13.40 > BMW 320is $11.04, the Mobil1 filter is $12.69 (no K&N available for this older car) > > So, again using my 2 times a year per car example, this is now a yearly cost of actually only $15.82. > > So, again, why are we willing to settle for something described as “adequate at worst”? What you’re saying is that premium filters are essentially multi-vitamins for your car. Not expensive, and potential “insurance” against something that is likely never to matter under most conceivable conditions. Do you get wonky about whether someone uses synthetic/non-synthetic or about specific brands of API-rated oil? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399/37 "2016-09-21T11:06:35Z")
I am guessing part of the disdain for Fram is due to price snobbery; if they were $10 instead of $5, people would rave about them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearheads-what-is-your-opinion-experiences-with-fram-oil-filters/766399.md?page=1)