# Gearing up for a fight with the dealership, need opinions please. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 31, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071 "2010-08-31T01:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SylverOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/1 "2010-08-31T01:01:08Z")
Two weeks ago, (08/14/10) my husband bought a truck. It’s a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500. High miles, but otherwise, meticulously maintained. He got hosed on his trade in, but they threw in a set of new tires and oil changes every 3000 miles for as long as he owns the truck, so it evened out. The truck was bought As-Is with no warranty on it. We didn’t realize it, but although it has power locks, it didn’t come with keyless entry, so he scheduled an appt with the dealership to have it installed to the tune of $200.00. He drops it off last Friday in the morning, and picks it up after work. We go out to dinner and on the way home, the check engine light comes on, and the left side of the dash lights are really dim. Saturday morning, he calls the dealership, tells them the problems and they have him bring it in bright and early this morning. The results? The check engine light was on due to a crack in one of the hoses. And the dash lights? The whole cluster needs to be replaced, and they want $700.00 to do it. I think something got screwed up while someone installing the keyless entry. Can I prove it? Nope. Have I had trouble with this dealership before? Yep. So, I ask for your opinion… What say you? _Odd coincidence, pay up and be done with it._ _Sounds like BS, dealership should pay for the repairs._ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/2 "2010-08-31T01:09:39Z")
> [@SylverOne](#): > > _Sounds like BS, dealership should pay for the repairs._ I call BS. Why did you buy again from that dealership?😕 We need Rick here. ---
**Author:** ![SylverOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/3 "2010-08-31T01:16:43Z")
Had it been my choice, we wouldn’t have. But we’ve been looking for a 3/4 ton for the better part of a year, and this one fit the bill perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/4 "2010-08-31T01:34:52Z")
If you signed the As Is form, the dealership is under no obligation to pay for any repairs, no matter how soon after purchase the vehicle needed them. If you can make a plausible case that the cluster became damaged while the keyless entry was being installed, you might get some or all of the cost of that waived. The cracked hose is all on you. If they pay for any of that, they are being extremely generous. Legally, you don’t have a leg to stand on. However, if you are persistent, calm, and nice about it, they might be willing to do a good will repair for you. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/5 "2010-08-31T01:34:58Z")
I can’t offer any hope I’m afraid. I’ve had dealerships break stuff and put words to the effect of “it was like that when we got it” on the worksheet. I’ve also had them break stuff and not acknowledge it at all. No way to prove anything, and I’ve just had to suck it up. Of course I also haven’t returned to the offending dealerships, but it seems to be common practise. ---
**Author:** ![SylverOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/6 "2010-08-31T01:48:35Z")
> [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > If you signed the As Is form, the dealership is under no obligation to pay for any repairs, no matter how soon after purchase the vehicle needed them. Had it happened the day before we had it in the shop, I probably wouldn’t squawk. But immediately after we pick it up? Something stinks… (though its more than likely our decision to buy from these turkeys.) > [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > The cracked hose is all on you. I’m wondering if there even is a cracked hose, or if the light being on is a related issue with the instrument cluster. > [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > Legally, you don’t have a leg to stand on. Sadly, I’m all too aware of this. > [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > I’ve had dealerships break stuff and put words to the effect of “it was like that when we got it” on the worksheet. I’ve also had them break stuff and not acknowledge it at all. This was my gripe with these guys in the first place. The dealership is under new ownership, (a large national chain,) so I was hoping for a better outcome. The kicker of it is… I bought a car the same day. A 2008 Grand Prix. The next day, I broke the handle to the jockey box. I stopped back by my dealership, and they ordered the part and put it in free of charge. No Questions Asked. Granted, it wasn’t a $700.00 part and it took all of 10 minutes to fix, but there was just no hassle over it. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/7 "2010-08-31T01:50:24Z")
To be honest if you have a high mileage vehicle a bunch of little things breaking is kind of what happens randomly. The entire dash cluster needing to be replaced is kind of unusual just beacuse some of the the backlights are dim or blown. Re the hose can’t see how the keyless entry install would effect that. Re the dash lights unles a thitd party can prove it was their fault I’m no sure what a plan of action might be to prove that. As a side note don’t almost all used vehicles bought from a dealer have some 30 or 90 day warranty or something. I’d get a send opinion on the cluster fix. ---
**Author:** ![SylverOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/8 "2010-08-31T03:25:37Z")
Update from my husband: They replaced the cracked hose and the check engine light is now off. They also offered to knock $100.00 off the cluster assembly and installation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/9 "2010-08-31T03:32:48Z")
Heck’s a jockey box? ---
**Author:** ![SylverOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/10 "2010-08-31T03:39:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Heck’s a jockey box? AKA - the glove box. And yeah, **astro** … It’s headed to my regular mechanic to be checked out. He’s trustworthy, so I’d believe what he tells me. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/11 "2010-08-31T04:38:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why did you buy again from that dealership?😕 > > We need Rick here. I’m here. I agree about why did you buy from them again. 😕 > [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > I can’t offer any hope I’m afraid. > > I’ve had dealerships break stuff and put words to the effect of “it was like that when we got it” on the worksheet. I’ve also had them break stuff and not acknowledge it at all. > > No way to prove anything, and I’ve just had to suck it up. Of course I also haven’t returned to the offending dealerships, but it seems to be common practise. Coincidence does not equal causation. Example car comes in for service. We change the oil, filter and what not. customer comes back the next day and says the right rear window does not work and it is our fault. :dubious: Wait, let me get this straight, you have owned the car for 70,000 miles and five years, we had it for 2 hours and a 3 mile test drive and it’s our fault? Murphy is a mother fucker. > [@SylverOne](#): > > Had it happened the day before we had it in the shop, I probably wouldn’t squawk. But immediately after we pick it up? Something stinks… (though its more than likely our decision to buy from these turkeys.) > > I’m wondering if there even is a cracked hose, or if the light being on is a related issue with the instrument cluster. > > Sadly, I’m all too aware of this. The odds of tripping a check engine light putting in remote entry are fairly small. Not impossible but slim. > [@](#): > > This was my gripe with these guys in the first place. The dealership is under new ownership, (a large national chain,) so I was hoping for a better outcome. > > The kicker of it is… I bought a car the same day. A 2008 Grand Prix. The next day, I broke the handle to the jockey box. I stopped back by my dealership, and they ordered the part and put it in free of charge. No Questions Asked. > > Granted, it wasn’t a $700.00 part and it took all of 10 minutes to fix, but there was just no hassle over it. Which national chain? > [@astro](#): > > To be honest if you have a high mileage vehicle a bunch of little things breaking is kind of what happens randomly. The entire dash cluster needing to be replaced is kind of unusual just beacuse some of the the backlights are dim or blown. > > Re the hose can’t see how the keyless entry install would effect that. Re the dash lights unles a thitd party can prove it was their fault I’m no sure what a plan of action might be to prove that. > > As a side note don’t almost all used vehicles bought from a dealer have some 30 or 90 day warranty or something. > > I’d get a send opinion on the cluster fix. A few wags here. Hoses was bad when car went though inspection at dealer. Technician either didn’t see it, or used car dept didn’t want to pay for it. Hose leak got bad enough to trip CEL. You know the rest. On the cluster I am guessing it uses LEDs to light up the cluster. While it is possible that the installer fucked something up, I doubt it. The wiring for the LEDs would be on a circuit board inside the cluster. Fairly tamper proof. ---
**Author:** ![SylverOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/12 "2010-08-31T05:23:14Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Murphy is a mother fucker. Truer words have never been spoken! 😛 > [@Rick](#): > > The odds of tripping a check engine light putting in remote entry are fairly small. Not impossible but slim. Good to know, thank you. > [@Rick](#): > > Which national chain? Lithia ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/13 "2010-08-31T20:29:40Z")
I really hesitate to take my vehicles in for service because I know collateral damage can and does occur. When I bought my first new car it had an AUX in port but it was disabled because they had installed Sirius in there. So before I would accept the car I told them the AUX in port had to work. They fixed it pretty quick but there is now a little scratch on the center console and it bugs me. I could fight it but not worth the fight over something so small. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/14 "2010-09-02T12:56:03Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Coincidence does not equal causation. Example car comes in for service. We change the oil, filter and what not. customer comes back the next day and says the right rear window does not work and it is our fault. :dubious: Wait, let me get this straight, you have owned the car for 70,000 miles and five years, we had it for 2 hours and a 3 mile test drive and it’s our fault? > Murphy is a mother fucker. Yes, I get that - I’m not stupid. Nice strawman, by the way. Here are two examples. No, I can’t prove them which is why, as I said, I had to suck it up. Example 1: Tape player (that’s how long ago it was) needed to be taken out for repair. One of the airconditioning levers on the same console was broken when I picked it up. I know full well that it was not broken the day before, but the worksheet said it was like that when they got it. Example 2: Speedometer illuminating light needed to be replaced. They said they needed to remove the steering wheel to accomplish this. When I picked it up the steering wheel was scraping as I turned it. They had put some lubricating stuff on it so that it at least worked. Took it to another dealer and they said that the steering column was designed to break in an accident and that it could also happen if it was handled incorrectly during a service. Dealership denied anything was wrong. Neither of these was coincidence. Both were causation. Your attitude just confirms that this sort of denial is systemic in the industry. I’m sure you are not part of the problem, but to pretend that it isn’t widespread is simply naive. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/15 "2010-09-02T13:07:50Z")
I had a shop put in a new speedometer and a few days later the gas gauge broke. I took it back to them and asked if maybe the gauge problem was related to the other repair. (the parts are right next to each other) They said they would look at it and made the fix for free, they just handed me my keys back and said no charge. That was great customer service. I’m sure they knew that it was not certain the problems were related but they wanted to make things right. So now I always tell people to visit that shop , they got a lot of referrals from me. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/16 "2010-09-02T15:32:10Z")
> [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > > [@Rick](#): > > > > Coincidence does not equal causation. Example car comes in for service. We change the oil, filter and what not. customer comes back the next day and says the right rear window does not work and it is our fault. :dubious: Wait, let me get this straight, you have owned the car for 70,000 miles and five years, we had it for 2 hours and a 3 mile test drive and it’s our fault? > > Murphy is a mother fucker. > > Yes, I get that - I’m not stupid. Nice strawman, by the way. > > Here are two examples. No, I can’t prove them which is why, as I said, I had to suck it up. > > Example 1: Tape player (that’s how long ago it was) needed to be taken out for repair. One of the airconditioning levers on the same console was broken when I picked it up. I know full well that it was not broken the day before, but the worksheet said it was like that when they got it. > > Example 2: Speedometer illuminating light needed to be replaced. They said they needed to remove the steering wheel to accomplish this. When I picked it up the steering wheel was scraping as I turned it. They had put some lubricating stuff on it so that it at least worked. Took it to another dealer and they said that the steering column was designed to break in an accident and that it could also happen if it was handled incorrectly during a service. Dealership denied anything was wrong. > > Neither of these was coincidence. Both were causation. Your attitude just confirms that this sort of denial is systemic in the industry. I’m sure you are not part of the problem, but to pretend that it isn’t widespread is simply naive. You will note that your two examples are directly related to the repair being done. In my example the “complaint” of what we “broke” is not even closely related to the repair being done. In both of your examples had it been in my shop (assuming the technician did not come to me first and show me previous damage) we would have repaired the car at no charge to you. BTW that was not a straw man, but an actual complaint I had on my desk 3 days ago. Unless your car dealer somehow changes your oil via the rear door, that is a baseless complaint. Want more? Car comes in on tow truck. Car has large scratch on passenger door when received (I saw it coming off the truck!). Customer swears up and down scratch was not there. We wound up painting the damn door to shut the bitch up. Customer comes in for an oil change. Ignition lock breaks, and key won’t turn. It’s my fault according to the customer. Wait let me get this straight, you have turned that key 10,000 times, we turned it 2 times, it broke and it is my fault? I had to buy a lock. Or I love this one. Attorney brings his car in for an oil change. car is under warranty. Two years later, brings car back and among other complaints says CD player is inop. Car is now out of warranty. He declines repairs on CD player. He stops payment on a $700 check because we “broke” his CD player on the previous visit. WTF?:dubious: I had to sue him in small claim court to get my money. Ask me for more, I can tell you stories that will leave you looking like :eek: this. Coincidence does not equal causation. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/17 "2010-09-02T17:12:26Z")
Free oil changes? Once they get you in the dealership, they will find stuff to fix. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/18 "2010-09-02T17:46:14Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Free oil changes? Once they get you in the dealership, they will find stuff to fix. 😕I don’t recall anyone mentioning a free oil change in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gearing-up-for-a-fight-with-the-dealership-need-opinions-please/552071/19 "2010-09-02T18:39:28Z")
> [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > Neither of these was coincidence. Both were causation. Your attitude just confirms that this sort of denial is systemic in the industry. I’m sure you are not part of the problem, but to pretend that it isn’t widespread is simply naive. This challenge is a huge issue in any repair based business (in my case computers). As **Rick** is insinuating people often do not realize that happened in our shop does not mean we broke it. Probably once, occasionally twice a month we have a computer die on the table here. We replace a power supply and 2 weeks later the hard drive dies. This is not a warranty issue, but will we hear a bunch of teeth gnashing and accusations of dishonest dealings on our part…yup. I had a customer a few months back try to demand free warranty service on a 2 year old machine he bought at Costco, he seems to think that because I was the one that set up his network I am now responsible for the quality of his computer hardware. :rolleyes: Many people do not understand that there are subsystems in a car or computer that have minimal impact on each other. Adding a stick of ram did not give you a virus No doing a reload of windows in the shop does not mean we come out to your house and hook all your peripherals back up for free because you can’t figure it out and your friend that did it for you last time died in a horrific yodeling accident. Just a week ago I had a customer wanting us to come back out on what was essentially a training issue. We fixed some things, set up some new software, showed him how to use it, and now wants us to come back out because he can’t remember how to use the software (we even printed him out a copy of the manual for him before we left.) When I do training of any kind, I don’t just show, I make them do it. So he had done it 3-4 times before we left and now feels there should be free onsite retraining sessions 😕