# Gee Frank, having a bad day? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410 "2006-01-17T21:08:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/41 "2006-01-18T01:21:26Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Master **Scylla** , I fixed your coding for you, sir. I apologize for taking so long. Is there anything else I can do to make your message board experience excellent? > > :: backs away bowing :: Can I see a dessert tray? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/42 "2006-01-18T01:25:43Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Can I see a dessert tray? Right away, sir. I live only to serve my magnificent benefactors, the rich handsome men and women for whom seven and a half dollars is such a mere trifle that they can part with it on an _annual_ basis for the paltry pleasure of my inadequate service. Serving such fine people is far more reward than such a pitiful servant as myself deserves. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/43 "2006-01-18T01:35:09Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Right away, sir. I live only to serve my magnificent benefactors, the rich handsome men and women for whom seven and a half dollars is such a mere trifle that they can part with it on an _annual_ basis for the paltry pleasure of my inadequate service. Serving such fine people is far more reward than such a pitiful servant as myself deserves. I paid fifteen dollars, so don’t lump me in with the low-rent hoi polloi. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/44 "2006-01-18T01:42:28Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I paid fifteen dollars, so don’t lump me in with the low-rent hoi polloi. Oh. You’re “new money.” _\_ ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/45 "2006-01-18T01:52:51Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I think he’sabsolutely correct. If I go into a restaurant, I don’t expect to be insulted by the help. Since I am the customer, I expect to be treated politely. > > This same holds doubly true when we are talking about someone in a position with authority. That sounds really correct. Except for the need for a space between “he’s” and “absolutely.” Of course, a restaurant will only give better service if the clientele demand it with their dollars… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/46 "2006-01-18T02:13:40Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > If I go into a restaurant, I don’t expect to be insulted by the help. Since I am the customer, I expect to be treated politely. Honestly, if I go to a restaurant where part of the fun is that folks are constantly throwing insults at one another and behaving in a rambunctious, no-holds-barred fashion, and a member of the wait staff takes off his apron, clocks out, and wades into the fray, I’d absolutely not expect him to treat me politely. If I go into a restaurant, I don’t expect to be insulted by **anybody**. That’s the difference between the Straight Dope and a restaurant. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/47 "2006-01-18T03:06:26Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > “Vile” is certainly undeserved; it’s silly to imagine that one can judge a person so thoroughly as to call them “vile” on the basis of behavior on a message board. 😕 [Link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=353800) I guess it depends on whether one considers “loathesome bitch” more or less insulting than “vile.” ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/48 "2006-01-18T03:07:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Only when they’re acting in Offcial Mod Capacity. If the mod hat’s off, apparently the gloves are, too. Mea culpa, you are absolutely correct. TubaDiva said in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=352292&page=2&pp=50&highlight=cunt) thread: > [@tubadiva](#): > > I should also point out that there’s a big difference between what a staffer does personally when participating in a thread and enforcement action. Staffers are also members of the community and have a right to make posts like anyone else – up to a certain point – but you cannot hold their PERSONAL participation against them just because they happen to be a moderator or administrator. You give up some rights when you become a moderator, but you don’t lose your right to play on the board. Don’t confuse what they do as members with what they do as staffers. Still, I found it humorous, especially for the WTF factor. I have no idea if any of what he called Dave was correct, but it was an awesome asside for no particular reason. Was it uncalled for? Probably - but it was still funny, to my feeble mind atleast. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/49 "2006-01-18T03:08:09Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > If I go into a restaurant, I don’t expect to be insulted by **anybody**. That’s the difference between the Straight Dope and a restaurant. Well, that and the food service. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/50 "2006-01-18T03:22:02Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Right away, sir. I live only to serve my magnificent benefactors, the rich handsome men and women for whom seven and a half dollars is such a mere trifle that they can part with it on an _annual_ basis for the paltry pleasure of my inadequate service. Serving such fine people is far more reward than such a pitiful servant as myself deserves. Here’s a shiny sixpence for your trouble, my good man. Be sure not to spend it on gin, now. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/51 "2006-01-18T03:24:08Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > This same holds doubly true when we are talking about someone in a position with authority. There is simply no way around the fact that a moderator has that title under their name all the time, and it is incumbent upon them to act appropriately and reasonably so that they will be an example and so that their judgement will be accepted. That’s bullshit. If you can’t get your brain around the fact that they sometimes post as regular members, and sometimes as moderators, then that’s your problem. The late GQ mod **manhattan** and i had plenty of run-ins in the Pit, and hurled insults at one another on a regular basis. I didn’t like him, and he made no secret of his dislike for me. But i never felt that i needed to be extra careful in GQ because of this, nor do i recall ever feeling that our Pit encounters were likely to make him target me unfairly in GQ. And my confidence in him _as a mod_ was never compromised as a result of our personal animosity in other fora. > [@Scylla](#): > > Primarily that is what being a moderator should be about, using good judgement. Gratuitously insulting posters is simply poor judgement. That poster, and friends of that poster are going to (rightfully, imo) be suspicious if that moderator later has to discipline them. It is also inherently such poor judgement (they should understand this without having it be explained to them,) that it truly does call into question their judgement at other times. Maybe i’ve been dreaming for the past few years, but i was under the impression that you had been around long enough to know, and were smart enough to understand, that this message board has never placed any real restrictions on its moderators’ abilities to post as regular members, as long as they make very clear when they are acting in an official capacity. And in the thread in question, there is no doubt in my mind (nor, apparently, in the mind of anyone else in this thread) that **Frank** was posting as a regular member and not in his capacity as a moderator. > [@Scylla](#): > > It would be difficult to expect Dave to accept moderation on a controversial call from Frank because he’s demonstrated strong prejudice against Dave. Frank has, in effect cancelled his ability to moderate effectively where Dave is concerned. Why don’t we address that issue if and when it ever comes up, rather than engaging in stupid speculation and mindless assertions? > [@Scylla](#): > > Poor judgement. Bad customer service. Unnecessary. Unprofessional. Would you like something to go with that whine? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/52 "2006-01-18T03:47:10Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > That’s the difference between the Straight Dope and a restaurant. Plus the lack of refills on the chips and salsa. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/53 "2006-01-18T03:53:15Z")
Waiter! There’s a joke in my Pit thread! The question is (and I hope this doesn’t sound _too_ idiotic), are moderators held to higher standards of behaviour than regular posters because of their position of power? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/54 "2006-01-18T03:58:00Z")
Meh, just dump the lot of them (even the ones I like), Admins too and restart the whole thing with new blood, new focus, new beats. Like nuking the fucking colony from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/55 "2006-01-18T03:58:14Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > The question is (and I hope this doesn’t sound _too_ idiotic), are moderators held to higher standards of behaviour than regular posters because of their position of power? Depends on the context. When posting as a regular member, they enjoy no special protection, have no special powers and are subject to the same standards. When posting as moderators, they enjoy special protection, have special powers and are held to higher standards. Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/56 "2006-01-18T03:59:25Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Meh, just dump the lot of them (even the ones I like), Admins too and restart the whole thing with new blood, new focus, new beats. Like nuking the fucking colony from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure. Oh yeah, and put Newt in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/57 "2006-01-18T04:22:14Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Oh yeah, and put Newt in charge. Can I be in charge. I mean, I was a newt but I got better. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/58 "2006-01-18T05:43:42Z")
Our **tubadiva** has said: > [@](#): > > Don’t confuse what they do as members with what they do as staffers. So in the original comment was **Frank** , who has the label “Moderator” automatically under his name, acting as a staffer or as a member in that particular comment in question? Look at what was said: > [@](#): > > **Frank** : **Pjen** , you’re making some good points, but they’re hidden by your stridency. With the exception of the always bitter, bilious, vile, and vicious **weirddave** , all of the posters arguing with you would be perfectly willing to listen to you make your points if you could do it without the bashing. Unless, of course, the bashing is the point. Advice about being less stident is usually pretty sound. But there are _some_ who might accuse this ordinary poster of "junior moding. One of the biggest problems with this advice to **Pjen** from a person labelled “Frank, Moderator” is that it is contradictory and ironic. **Pjen** will certainly receive mixed messages from this post because a “Moderator” suggests that he or she shouldn’t bash others while in the same sentence said “Moderator” calls another poster bitter, bilious, vile and vicious… At the very least he should have followed his own advice and made his point without the bashing – unless the bashing was the point, of course. Maybe **Frank** should not confuse what he does as a member with what he does as a staffer! That would help to keep **us** from confusing the two. I have no beef with Frank and I often disagree with **weirddave**. But none of are not mindreaders. If I had have been in **weirddave’s** shoes, and there was no indication that **Frank** had taken off his moderator’s hat, I would have been “confused” too. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/59 "2006-01-18T05:51:39Z")
> [@](#): > > insulted by somebody who works there but is currently off duty and out of uniform. I don’t see it this way at all. He’s still wearing the nametag, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2006, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410/60 "2006-01-18T06:28:20Z")
There were two things involved in my starting this thread. Number one, Frank saw fit to insult me out of nowhere, it was my feeling that he was calling the tune and wanted to dance, so I obliged him. Number two was that I feel that random, unprovoked personal insults are not something that a moderator should be slinging around lightly. Nobody, or at least not me, is saying that Frank can’t discuss, argue with or even insult another poster if he wishes when he is simply posting as a member. However, for weal or for woe, he always has that title “moderator” under his name, and with that comes, IMO, a certain expectation of decorum. If he was responding directly to me, he can say what he wants and I’ll respond as it deserves. In this case his post was in it’s entirety directed at another poster with the exception of his snide shot at me. As my British friends say, it’s bad form. As I said in my OP, if Frank has an issue with me, he’s welcome to start a pit thread or to address me directly. Airing a personal dislike for me out of the blue in a wholly unrelated thread is not the type of behavior that is commensurate with being a good moderator. A moderator is in a position of authority on these boards, and with that comes some responsibility not to act rashly. Suppose there was a judge who was overheard to say to his clerk “Man, I sure hate niggers”. While this might be his personal opinion, one that he has every right to hold, should it cause people to doubt weather he would treat black dependents in his courtroom fairly? I think it should. To refine it even further, and perhaps bring it more to the point when dealing with an individual, if he went around town saying that dependent X was a bad man, he would be _obligated_ to excuse himself should dependent X ever appear before him. This is the same situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gee-frank-having-a-bad-day/340410.md?page=4)