# GeeDubya Speaks From the Ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 3, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901 "2004-09-03T03:15:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/161 "2004-09-06T05:56:39Z")
Indeed. All of this requires one to suspend all credulity. George Bush, after all, has a far more distinguished service record than his predecessor did. Clinton’s two opponents for the presidency were, we recall, war heroes. Their service records compare favoribly to Kerry’s. One was a paralyzed veteran of the Po River valley and a Bronze Star awardee. The other, a holder of the Distinguished Flying Cross, was the youngest Navy fighter pilot in WWII. John Kerry campaigned against both of these honorable men, and it didn’t bother him a bit. He explained himself thusly: > [@John Kerry](#): > > Vietnam has been discussed and written about without an adequate statement of its full meaning. > > What is ignored is the way in which our experience during that period reflected in part a positive affirmation of American values and history, not simply the more obvious negatives of loss and confusion. What is missing is a recognition that there exists today a generation that has come into its own with powerful lessons learned, with a voice that has been grounded in experiences both of those who went to Vietnam and those who did not. What is missing and what cries out to be said is that neither one group nor the other from that difficult period of time has cornered the market on virtue or rectitude or love of country. . . . > > The race for the White House should be about leadership, and leadership requires that one help heal the wounds of Vietnam, not reopen them; that one help identify the positive things that we learned about ourselves and about our nation, not play to the divisions and differences of that crucible of our generation > > We do not need to divide America over who served and how. If anything, John Kerry is failing to live up to the high goals he set for politicians of that generation. Not only did he tear the wounds open, but he also rubbed salt in them. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/162 "2004-09-06T17:52:56Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Now that post is against the rules, isn’t it? I believe it is. But, since stupid milroyj brought it up, it will likely get a pass. Oh well. It gets a pass because talking about the list is not against the rules. It’s an ignore list, not Fight Club. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/163 "2004-09-07T18:19:00Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > It gets a pass because talking about the list is not against the rules. It’s an ignore list, not Fight Club. Actually, Jeff - it _is_ against the rules. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/164 "2004-09-07T18:35:22Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > One guy went to Vietnam and served his country. > > The other guy dinked around in the Guard for a while, then wandered off, and no one is quite sure what he was doing at the time, including him, if you believe him. > > And now we’ve let the second guy not only get our soldiers into a war, but he may well become president again after crapping all over the honor and reputation of the guy who went to Vietnam and served his country. > > Not even to mention everything ELSE Bush has screwed up. > > And if we let him get away with it, then that will be the day that marks the beginning of my metamorphosis into “bitter old man.” Because any group of people that can believe that Bush is a good and honorable man after this election is truly either the dumbest bunch of folks alive… or the most self-deluded. > > It will mark the ultimate victory of spin over truth, glitz over substance, lies over reality. > > It will mean that we may never actually have a decent government, ever again. Goddamn bro, right on. :::::big 'ol golf clap::::: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/165 "2004-09-07T18:42:29Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > This may take the cake for most insulting post ever IMO. At the very least I find it tremendously ironic. Or most dead on post. > [@](#): > > Do you have any idea how arrogant this is? There are other conclusions, including the possibility that your assessment of the facts is incorrect. Is it that hard to believe that intelligent people capable of thinking for themselves don’t agree with you? There are no other conclusions, this is reality, weep with the rest of us or go serve your master. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/166 "2004-09-07T19:08:26Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Actually, Jeff - it is against the rules. [I beg to differ](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=127729). The only rule pertaining to the ignore list is in regards to posting who is on your particular list. You may disregard this post if you’re using “it” to mean something else. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/167 "2004-09-07T19:12:03Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Now that post is against the rules, isn’t it? I believe it is. But, since stupid milroyj brought it up, it will likely get a pass. Oh well. Helps you any, I reported it. Either the mods are busy, forgot, or it didn’t break a rule. **emarkp** , rather than saying how wrong something is, might be a good idea to actually try to refute some of it rather than just claiming it’s spin or lying. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/168 "2004-09-07T20:58:35Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > [I beg to differ](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=127729). The only rule pertaining to the ignore list is in regards to posting who is on your particular list. That’s how I remembered the rule, but I couldn’t find the particular wording. I didn’t think to look in a sticky thread about Pit rules. My point in posting was _not_ to suggest that **Dio** is on my list or even that **booka** should put him on the list. Rather if you’re trying to ignore someone but failing, that _is the purpose_ of the ignore list. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/169 "2004-09-07T21:17:51Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > **emarkp** , rather than saying how wrong something is, might be a good idea to actually try to refute some of it rather than just claiming it’s spin or lying. There’s little point. Having been in discussions like this before I find it rare that someone who is as partisan as **Master Wang-Ka** ’s post suggests is actually willing to listen. Anyone who is chanting “Bush lied and people died” are just beyond hope for discussion. Anyone willing to evaluate actual facts will see the irony in **Master Wang-Ka** ’s post. Frankly, the depressing thing to me is that we’re careening towards civil war. The partisans aren’t listening to anyone but their own talking points, and the attitude of “If you disagree with me you’re just wrong” is pervasive and it’s only getting deeper. I really don’t see how we’re going to resolve this without bloodshed. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/170 "2004-09-07T21:32:35Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > I really don’t see how we’re going to resolve this without bloodshed. Spoken like a true Bush supporter. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/171 "2004-09-07T23:04:40Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Spoken like a true Bush supporter. Thank you for making my point better than I could. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/172 "2004-09-07T23:24:18Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Thank you for making my point better than I could. Hey, don’t shoot the messenger. You’re the one who believes that our debates will inevitably descend into violence. You said so yourself, in the clearest possible way. I’m afraid i don’t share your opinion. Furthermore, i love the way that some people make blanket condemnations of the “partisans” in ways that portray themselves as somehow above and beyond the partisanship. Beware of those who claim to be neutral or objective in matters of politics. For the most part, such people either are too caught up in their own biases to recognize them, or they’re so incurious that they really have no idea what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/173 "2004-09-08T00:24:42Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Furthermore, i love the way that some people make blanket condemnations of the “partisans” in ways that portray themselves as somehow above and beyond the partisanship. I read “partisan” as someone who won’t even evaluate the opposition’s comments, who simply recycles talking points, and most especially dodges any question which puts his preferred candidate in a bad light. > [@](#): > > Beware of those who claim to be neutral or objective in matters of politics. For the most part, such people either are too caught up in their own biases to recognize them, or they’re so incurious that they really have no idea what’s going on. I never claimed to be neutral. I’m trying my best to evaluate issues based on the facts as I understand them, rather than whether they are good for my preferred candidate. It’s not easy. I’m definitely conservative, but I’m trying to seek out views that aren’t beholden to the Republican party first. I absolutely despise the actions of Alan Keyes, for instance, and find him totally discredited, while others see him as good just because he’s “fighting the fight” in Illinois. I also didn’t vote for Schwarzenegger in CA even though I saw that as the best chance for an ‘R’ next to the Governor’s name. With the swift boat stuff I’ve tried to look at the facts as much as possible, and my conclusion is not that Kerry is totally discredited. I’ve tried to seek out similar voices in the media, but haven’t found many. I would especially like to find a liberal who doesn’t start out every column with “Bush sucks.” On the conservative side, I can’t stand Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity (whose interview style is agonizing and it made me laugh when [Orson Scott Card assessed it as “relentless dimness”](http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2004-05-23-1.html)). The only radio personaly I like nationally is Glenn Beck. The only columnist I really like is Mort Kondrake (though he’s got his problems). So while I make no pretensions at neutrality, I _do_ try to investigate and make decisions based on fact. I try to call people on it when they make untrue statements either for conservatives or against them. I’m _trying_ to be non-partisan. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/174 "2004-09-08T02:11:30Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > There’s little point. Having been in discussions like this before I find it rare that someone who is as partisan as **Master Wang-Ka** ’s post suggests is actually willing to listen. Anyone who is chanting “Bush lied and people died” are just beyond hope for discussion. Anyone willing to evaluate actual facts will see the irony in **Master Wang-Ka** ’s post. Perhaps instead of skirting the issue, for the benefit of those of us who are not blind sheep and might have actually rolled our eyes at some minute fragment of that post (I don’t auto-post every time I have a thought), perhaps you’d like to take factual issue with something specific in it, rather than off-handedly say there’s spin or lying in each bit? Here I am, for one, _not_ chanting “Bush lied and people died” (and really, do you expect five-paragraph essays at a protest? It’s supposed to be quick and effective.). I’m willing to evaluate actual facts **if you’ll present them** , but don’t just say it’s all misleading and inaccurate. Put up the facts:) And since you detest talking points so much, I’m confident your cites will be politically neutral inasmuch as is possible, though I certainly think you’ll have a harder time with some things than with others (really, how do you get an unbiased citation on TWAT?). ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/175 "2004-09-08T20:33:15Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > [I beg to differ](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=127729). The only rule pertaining to the ignore list is in regards to posting who is on your particular list. > > You may disregard this post if you’re using “it” to mean something else. Beg all you want; but I seriously doubt that Lynn posted that rule with the intention that we comply only with the _letter_ of it, and not the spirit. Saying, “That’s what the ignore list is for” in reference to a specific person is probably not a good idea, regardless of whether you consider it technically to be a violation of the strict wording of the rule. But hey, I don’t really care. Do whatever you like. It’s not my job to enforce the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901/176 "2004-09-09T04:42:53Z")
Who cares about any of this stuff anyway. Nobody lives forever. No matter how bad things get, they mean nothing in the long run. More than a thousand American troops are sent to gruesome deaths in Iraq, most after Bush said major combat was over and the mission was accomplished? Sure, it sounds bad. But they would have died eventually anyway. I actually feel worse for the many thousands more with terrible injuries that will make their lives unpleasant for a long time. But they too will pass. The tens of thousands of dead Iraqis don’t warrant any more mention than this sentence, of course. And what about the fact that, after going to war because of supposed WMD, our military strategy (ignoring the advice of military experts) allowed many suspected WMD sites to be looted before we secured them, perhaps by the very terrorists we didn’t want getting their hands on those potential WMDs. Doubtless, such incompetence would be unforgivable… IF it mattered at all. But it doesn’t. The mission is accomplished… bring it on! Death, destruction, deficit, corporate domination, denial of rights, deluded masses, doom and darkness. Bring it all on. I suspect that a large percentage of Bush supporters are just people with morbid curiosities, like myself, who realize that none of this really matters, so we may as well just watch the carnage ensue. Kerry just doesn’t have the macabre potential of a man driven by God to shed large quantities of blood for transparently false reasons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geedubya-speaks-from-the-ass/262901.md?page=8)