# Gender and bathrooms
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 13, 2008, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136 "2008-04-13T05:52:51Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/1 "2008-04-13T05:52:51Z")
2 questions:
1: Why isn’t it discriminatory to have male and female bathrooms and
2: Is it illegal for a guy to use a girls bathroom?
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### Author:  [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/2 "2008-04-13T06:03:05Z")
I assume you mean in the US. In Korea and in Iraq, there are co-ed, as it were bathrooms.
SSG Schwartz
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/3 "2008-04-13T06:05:04Z")
There are Co-Ed bathrooms in New York.
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### Author:  [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/4 "2008-04-13T07:08:41Z")
[QUOTE=copperwindow]
2 questions:
1: Why isn’t it discriminatory to have male and female bathrooms and
2: Is it illegal for a guy to use a girls bathroom?
[/QUOTE]
1. Gender creates what is called a “quasi-suspect classification.” (Can’t remember what case set that precedent though \>.\<) This means the law or practice recieves the reasonable basis (or “balancing”) test in court, weighing the interest of the jurisdictiion with the policy vs the interest of the person challenging the policy. It has this classification due to the fact that the differences between the sexes is different than say, the races. There’s a valid reason to seperate the sexes when it comes time to go potty (doesn’t exactly take an imagination to figure out why), wheras theres not as much reason to seperate say old people and young people, black people and white people, you get the gist. Also, the issue is slightly different if there are only, say, mens bathrooms on the premisis and no womens bathrooms, but I think we can dance around that if you understood the above paragraph.
2. Depends on the state/town, but I’d say if it’s not illegal you could probably at least get busted for making a nuisance of yourself (or sexual harassment).
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### Author:  [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/5 "2008-04-13T07:20:45Z")
Found the case
Craig v Boren
> **[Craig v. Boren](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_v._Boren)**
>
> Craig v. Boren, 429 U.S. 190 (1976), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court ruling that statutory or administrative sex classifications were subject to intermediate scrutiny under the Fourteenth Amendment's Equal Protection Clause. The case was argued by future Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg while she was working for the American Civil Liberties Union.
> Oklahoma passed a statute prohibiting the sale of "nonintoxicating" 3.2% beer to males under the age of 21 but allowed fem...
Ironically, one of the cases that kicked-started the eventful portion of the women’s rights movement involved discrimination of men…
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### Author:  [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/6 "2008-04-13T07:24:37Z")
[QUOTE=Jragon]
There’s a valid reason to seperate the sexes when it comes time to go potty (doesn’t exactly take an imagination to figure out why)
[/QUOTE]
I’m at a loss to imagine why. In every restroom that I’ve ever seen, there is a stall, although not everyone uses it. Under your logic, shouldn’t we have separate bathrooms for people urinating as opposed to those defecating?
1. Depends on the state/town, but I’d say if it’s not illegal you could probably get busted for making a nuisance of yourself (or sexual harassment).
[/QUOTE]
How would anyone prove it? I am a man with a lot of body hair (it’s pretty obvious). If I used a female bathroom and claimed I was a female, what could anyone do? Would they ask to see my vagina??
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### Author:  [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/7 "2008-04-13T07:36:36Z")
[QUOTE=copperwindow]
I’m at a loss to imagine why. In every restroom that I’ve ever seen, there is a stall, although not everyone uses it. Under your logic, shouldn’t we have separate bathrooms for people urinating as opposed to those defecating?
1. Depends on the state/town, but I’d say if it’s not illegal you could probably get busted for making a nuisance of yourself (or sexual harassment).
How would anyone prove it? I am a man with a lot of body hair (it’s pretty obvious). If I used a female bathroom and claimed I was a female, what could anyone do? Would they ask to see my vagina??
[/QUOTE]
Well, there’s a valid rason as percieved by general American society I should have said. Stalls somewhat help eliminate the issue, and there are definately coed bathrooms, no big. However I have a feeling there’d be at least a few more cases of [bad acting]“Oops I seem to have walked into a stall with the opposite gender half naked”[/bad acting] than with seperated bathrooms, giving a needless comfort issue.
Also, I’m certain that given the reasonable suspicion you’re a guy they’d give you a “hey, buddy, look…” lecture after you get out of the bathroom (assuming there was someone there to make a scene about it), if you KEEP doing it I wouldn’t be surprised if you got charged with something.
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### Author:  [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/8 "2008-04-13T07:52:19Z")
[QUOTE=Jragon]
However I have a feeling there’d be at least a few more cases of [bad acting]“Oops I seem to have walked into a stall with the opposite gender half naked”[/bad acting] than with seperated bathrooms, giving a needless comfort issue.
[/QUOTE]
IIRC, stalls have locks on them.
[QUOTE=Jragon]
Also, I’m certain that given the reasonable suspicion you’re a guy they’d give you a “hey, buddy, look…” lecture after you get out of the bathroom (assuming there was someone there to make a scene about it), if you KEEP doing it I wouldn’t be surprised if you got charged with something.
[/QUOTE]
If I tell people that I’m actually a female who looks and talks a lot like a guy, what could anyone do?
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### Author:  [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/9 "2008-04-13T12:34:00Z")
[QUOTE=copperwindow]
If I tell people that I’m actually a female who looks and talks a lot like a guy, what could anyone do?
[/QUOTE]
Check your ID?
Stalls also have slits that can be peeped through, and face it, many women don’t feel comfortable in an enclosed area even with lockable doors in which they’re going to be taking off their clothes and men are too.
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### Author:  [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/10 "2008-04-13T13:17:13Z")
Places that are small may have a room with one toilet. Those are for use by anybody that needs them. The places that are larger, usually go with two large rooms equipped for the opposite sexes, instead of providing multiple individual rooms. I see no reason why they couldn’t make a long corridor with multiple individual bathrooms along it. I know why they usually don’t. You need one of everything for each room and it will take up more space, because of this and the fact that urinals placed next to each other only take up about 30 inches center to center.
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### Author:  [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/11 "2008-04-13T13:37:28Z")
Why would you want to use the women’s room? That’s the one that always has a line…
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### Author:  [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/12 "2008-04-13T13:45:52Z")
[QUOTE=Jragon]
Well, there’s a valid rason as percieved by general American society I should have said.
[/QUOTE]
You keep referring to this “valid reason”. Are you ever going to tell us what it is?
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### Author:  [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/13 "2008-04-13T13:49:01Z")
[QUOTE=copperwindow]
How would anyone prove it? I am a man with a lot of body hair (it’s pretty obvious). If I used a female bathroom and claimed I was a female, what could anyone do? Would they ask to see my vagina??
[/QUOTE]
Apparently, [they don’t have to prove it.](http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/09/america/NA-GEN-US-Gay-Customer-Lawsuit.php) They just have to suspect you’re in the wrong room, and even if they’re wrong, they will kick you out anyway. (Anyone know if this case has come to court yet?)
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### Author:  [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/14 "2008-04-13T14:15:09Z")
Montgomery County, Maryland is struggling with the discrimination issue right now.
An anti-discrimination trans-gender law was passed that some said was worded so that it will let someone self identify their sex and use that public bathrooms (& locker rooms).
The County Government put some words[that they say](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-te.md.transgender21feb21,0,4081884.story) say clarifies & eliminates the issue and that opponents say doesn’t. I think that consensus was that no political person was going to publicly say that self-identification was appropriate in MD in 2000.
Link says some colleges are trying to remove urinals.
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### Author:  [@flex727](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flex727)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/15 "2008-04-13T14:16:50Z")
I’ve always wondered why the restrooms in a place like Starbucks are designated as Men only or Women only. There they have two restrooms, each can only be occupied by one persone at a time with a lock on the door. I’ve seen women waiting in line many times with the Men’s room unoccupied. Since these restrooms are essentially identical, why not have them undifferentiated to improve efficiency?
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### Author:  [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/16 "2008-04-13T14:34:54Z")
[QUOTE=flex727]
I’ve always wondered why the restrooms in a place like Starbucks are designated as Men only or Women only. There they have two restrooms, each can only be occupied by one persone at a time with a lock on the door. I’ve seen women waiting in line many times with the Men’s room unoccupied. Since these restrooms are essentially identical, why not have them undifferentiated to improve efficiency?
[/QUOTE]
There is one issue that as a man don’t want to deal with. They have pad receptacles in womens rooms. I have seen and smelled how nasty they can be. Face it the bathrooms are not always immaculate, and that is one less thing guys rooms don’t have that can be nasty.
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### Author:  [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/17 "2008-04-13T14:43:35Z")
[QUOTE=flex727]
I’ve always wondered why the restrooms in a place like Starbucks are designated as Men only or Women only. There they have two restrooms, each can only be occupied by one persone at a time with a lock on the door. I’ve seen women waiting in line many times with the Men’s room unoccupied. Since these restrooms are essentially identical, why not have them undifferentiated to improve efficiency?
[/QUOTE]
Building codes, usually. And possibly, for Starbucks, for uniformity. But building codes will often specify weird things like if you have a bathroom available to the public and both genders might be in your building, you have to build two and designate one male and one female. “Employee bathrooms” or those hidden behind the deli department apparently don’t count.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/18 "2008-04-13T15:18:41Z")
The reason bathrooms are seperated into male and female is because that’s the way most people prefer it. It isn’t anything more complicated than that - and it doesn’t have to be. Rules don’t need reasons, just majorities.
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### Author:  [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/19 "2008-04-13T15:23:59Z")
If it’s a situation like the one in Starbucks. . .fuck it, I’ll use the men’s room. I’ve done it at the store when one bathroom’s been closed for cleaning. To be fair, though, I sent a scout…
I doubt anyone’d try to prosecute you for it, even if it were illegal. Unless, of course, you were being a really big nuisance or jerk.
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### Author:  [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)
#### Post date: [April 13, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-and-bathrooms/445136/20 "2008-04-13T15:38:49Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan]
The reason bathrooms are seperated into male and female is because that’s the way most people prefer it. It isn’t anything more complicated than that - and it doesn’t have to be. Rules don’t need reasons, just majorities.
[/QUOTE]
What a non-answer. All it does is prompt the question, “So why do people prefer it that way?”
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