# Gender-based violence : Why not hate Crimes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 9, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257 "2013-04-09T20:29:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/41 "2013-05-10T17:28:04Z")
Congrats to all, especially the OP, for a thoughtful and intelligent discussion of this topic. I came expecting a lot heat but little light, instead, got some very well thought out posts to read. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/42 "2013-05-10T17:29:17Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > 1. Can anybody talk about this statisic in my first post? I don’t think anyone has a addressed yet: \*\*\*Seventy-four percent of all murder-suicides involved an intimate partner (spouse, common-law spouse, ex-spouse, or boyfriend/girlfriend). Of these, 96 percent were females killed by their intimate partners. \*\*\* You’ve convinced me; murdering women _should_ be illegal. Seriously, though, what are you saying, here? That all those men who killed their wives and girlfriends were motivated by hatred of all women? That’s patently untrue. ---
**Author:** ![SleuFeets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SleuFeets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleuFeets)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/43 "2013-05-10T17:30:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you are proposing the change, shouldn’t you be coming up with reasons why we should do it instead? > > So far, you seem to have suggested that it is because domestic violence is like other hate crimes because it is motivated by hatred of women as a class, which does not seem to be the case (or at least you haven’t shown any evidence). Or perhaps because making domestic violence a hate crime would make it easier to get a restraining order, which also does not seem to be the case. > > Just out of curiosity, do you think domestic violence against children is, or should be, a hate crime? Women commit most of that - is it because women hate children as a class? > > Regards, > Shodan Regarding women abusing children statics: "But that does not tell you the “likelihood” that you are looking for, which is the percent of women caregivers who commit child abuse versus the percent of men caregivers who commit child abuse. More women than men care for children, and more children are cared for by women than are cared for by men.. in the population of all caregivers, men are nearly twice as likely to abuse children as are women. ."[THE LIZ LIBRARY TABLE OF CONTENTS](http://www.thelizlibrary.org/site-index/site-index-frame.html#soulhttp://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/statistics.html) ---
**Author:** ![SleuFeets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SleuFeets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleuFeets)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/44 "2013-05-10T17:31:48Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It shouldn’t be changed because hate crimes are a specific, discrete idea. It’s the same reason why the definition of “arson” shouldn’t include “stealing cars”; they simply are not the same thing. > > If your ultimate goal is harsher punishment for domestic violence, the way to proceed would be to make the punishment for domestic violence harsher. Trying to apply hate crime-status to any crime between people of different gender/racial/ethnic/religious groups, which is what you are proposing, is both senseless and a political nightmare. A political nightmare for who? The victims, the victimizers, or the system who can’t be bothered? If you don’t find a way to prevent the abuse by changing the mentality, you won’t actually solve the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/45 "2013-05-10T17:41:29Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > A political nightmare for who? The victims, the victimizers, or the system who can’t be bothered? For everyone. When committing a crime against someone who’s a different gender, color, or religion than you gets you more prison time, everyone suffers from such an arbitrary and unjust system. It’s extremely divisive, makes a mockery of legal equality, and accomplishes no good of any kind. > [@SleuFeets](#): > > If you don’t find a way to prevent the abuse by changing the mentality, you won’t actually solve the problem. Then change the mentality. Why are you focused on a completely unrelated area, like hate crimes? Honestly, if you wanted to discourage fraud, what makes more sense: increasing the criminal penalty for fraud, or redefining it so that it can also be treason if the victim is American? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/46 "2013-05-10T17:47:10Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > 1. I’m saying that an open homosexual in 1996 taking a given survey was likely pulled/targeted from people in a host of less than desireble environments any way. Considering the politics and time fram behind the study is important. Yes, considering those things is important. Therefore, could you address my point, which is that someone would be less likely to report domestic violence in 1996 than today, since that would reveal their sexual orientation, which might not be desirable. If you actually need more cites, well, that can be arranged - > [@](#): > > Abuse in same-sex relationships appears to occur with the same frequency as domestic violence in heterosexual relationships, and for the same reasons. The dynamics of domestic violence are similar in both LGBT and heterosexual relationships. [Cite](http://hr.umich.edu/stopabuse/about/same-sex.html). > [@](#): > > Gay and lesbian intimate partner violence is similar to that experienced by heterosexual women. [Cite](http://www.sp2.upenn.edu/ortner/docs/factsheet_ipvinsamesexrelationships.pdf). > [@](#): > > Domestic abuse occurs in approximately 30 to 40% of GLBT relationships, which is the same percentage of violence that occurs in straight relationships. [Cite](http://www.rainbowdomesticviolence.itgo.com/). > [@](#): > > I’m supposing you didn’t read the links regarding the denied restraining orders. [Here](http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120417/articles/120419555) [are](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-20/news/ct-met-darien-stabbing-1120-20121120_1_protection-order-emergency-order-domestic-violence) [some](http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=886&dat=19930124&id=9aRhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tH0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=4921,4919544) more. Those are what we call “anecdotes”, the plural of which is not “data”. Could you please explain how classifying domestic violence as a hate crime would have ensured those women got their restraining orders? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![SleuFeets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SleuFeets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleuFeets)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/47 "2013-05-10T18:02:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, considering those things is important. Therefore, could you address my point, which is that someone would be less likely to report domestic violence in 1996 than today, since that would reveal their sexual orientation, which might not be desirable. > > If you actually need more cites, well, that can be arranged - > [Cite](http://hr.umich.edu/stopabuse/about/same-sex.html). [Cite](http://www.sp2.upenn.edu/ortner/docs/factsheet_ipvinsamesexrelationships.pdf). > [Cite](http://www.rainbowdomesticviolence.itgo.com/). > > Those are what we call “anecdotes”, the plural of which is not “data”. Could you please explain how classifying domestic violence as a hate crime would have ensured those women got their restraining orders? > > Regards, > Shodan I have breaking things up. It looks ugly and its to tit for tat for my linking. I’m saying that it’s likely the researchers found gay people in a clinic or on the street. Gay people out in 96 had less to lose and thus had less to lose reporting a domestic incident. The new statics are probably more accurate. Does it say how likely those women abused in same sex relationships are likely to be murdered by their partners? Like the statistic I gave.. ---
**Author:** ![SleuFeets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SleuFeets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleuFeets)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/48 "2013-05-10T18:09:28Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > For everyone. When committing a crime against someone who’s a different gender, color, or religion than you gets you more prison time, everyone suffers from such an arbitrary and unjust system. It’s extremely divisive, makes a mockery of legal equality, and accomplishes no good of any kind. > > Then change the mentality. Why are you focused on a completely unrelated area, like hate crimes? Honestly, if you wanted to discourage fraud, what makes more sense: increasing the criminal penalty for fraud, or redefining it so that it can also be treason if the victim is American? I’m saying that the mentality to accept that there is a pervasive problem of seeing women as sub human objects, and men as naturally having some sort of unspoken dangerous rage that should be overlooked is the problem. Identifying the true root of gender based violence, the one that leaves whopsided numbers of women/mothers dead is the solution. Just continuing to call it “domestic violence” and giving the offenders 3 strikes does nothing to correct the problem. Shit, at this point , we can’t even agree that 96% percent of people killed bc of intimate partners are women is a problem. LOL. Gender statics are the most obvious contenders for fixing problems and the most common to not be touched. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/49 "2013-05-10T18:18:07Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > I’m saying that the mentality to accept that there is a pervasive problem of seeing women as sub human objects, and men as naturally having some sort of unspoken dangerous rage that should be overlooked is the problem. > > Identifying the true root of gender based violence, the one that leaves whopsided numbers of women/mothers dead is the solution. Just continuing to call it “domestic violence” and giving the offenders 3 strikes does nothing to correct the problem. What’s your evidence that the violence is gender-based? You’ve been shown evidence that same-sex couples have the same issues. > [@SleuFeets](#): > > Shit, at this point , we can’t even agree that 96% percent of people killed bc of intimate partners are women is a problem. LOL. People being murdered is a problem, yes. I don’t know why you think the above statistic is suprising. The vast majority of killers are male, most males are heterosexual. Thus, most people killed by their intimate partner will be female. Most people _murdered_, however, are male. You’re making these connections to women as sub-human objects and all, when the simple truth is that men are much more likely to kill. They kill other men, and less often they kill women. > [@SleuFeets](#): > > Gender statics are the most obvious contenders for fixing problems and the most common to not be touched. Statics? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/50 "2013-05-10T18:31:34Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > I’m saying that the mentality to accept that there is a pervasive problem of seeing women as sub human objects, and men as naturally having some sort of unspoken dangerous rage that should be overlooked is the problem. > > Identifying the true root of gender based violence, the one that leaves whopsided numbers of women/mothers dead is the solution. Just continuing to call it “domestic violence” and giving the offenders 3 strikes does nothing to correct the problem. > > Shit, at this point , we can’t even agree that 96% percent of people killed bc of intimate partners are women is a problem. LOL. > > Gender statics are the most obvious contenders for fixing problems and the most common to not be touched. Do you believe that the abusers will stop abusing because you called the abuse something more negative? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/51 "2013-05-10T18:57:49Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > I’m saying that the mentality to accept that there is a pervasive problem of seeing women as sub human objects, and men as naturally having some sort of unspoken dangerous rage that should be overlooked is the problem. > > Identifying the true root of gender based violence, the one that leaves whopsided numbers of women/mothers dead is the solution. Just continuing to call it “domestic violence” and giving the offenders 3 strikes does nothing to correct the problem. > > Shit, at this point , we can’t even agree that 96% percent of people killed bc of intimate partners are women is a problem. LOL. > > Gender statics are the most obvious contenders for fixing problems and the most common to not be touched. No one has disagreed with any of that. The only disagreement that anyone’s expressed is what a “hate crime” is, legally. And in fact, someone has pointed out to you that (at least under Canadian law) “hate crime” and “domestic violence” are both aggravating factors to the actual crime being committed, and of equivalent strength (if not stronger in the case of DV protection, a lot of the time). There’s a problem with enforcement, certainly you’ve proven that. What makes you think that adding another label to these bad behaviors that is under-enforced will make them any more likely to be properly punished? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/52 "2013-05-10T18:59:24Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > I’m saying that it’s likely the researchers found gay people in a clinic or on the street. Actually, the first cite uses data from the [National Crime Victimization Survey](http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245), which is performed by the Bureau of Justice. So no, it does not appear to be over-sampling the homeless or those in clinics. > [@](#): > > The new statics are probably more accurate. Good. Now we have established that domestic violence is at least as prevalent in same-sex relationships as in heterosexual ones. So that would appear to argue against your thesis as to why domestic violence occurs. > [@](#): > > Does it say how likely those women abused in same sex relationships are likely to be murdered by their partners? Like the statistic I gave.. I did find an interesting study that predicted that men would be more brutal in the way they murdered women, but the opposite appeared to be true - > [@](#): > > We predicted that men would kill their partners more brutally than would women, but the results indicate that the opposite is true. [Cite](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18396584). Which would tend to demonstrate that this - > [@](#): > > men as naturally having some sort of unspoken dangerous rage is not accurate. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![SleuFeets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SleuFeets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleuFeets)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/53 "2013-05-10T19:16:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, the first cite uses data from the [National Crime Victimization Survey](http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245), which is performed by the Bureau of Justice. So no, it does not appear to be over-sampling the homeless or those in clinics. > Good. Now we have established that domestic violence is at least as prevalent in same-sex relationships as in heterosexual ones. So that would appear to argue against your thesis as to why domestic violence occurs. > I did find an interesting study that predicted that men would be more brutal in the way they murdered women, but the opposite appeared to be true - > [Cite](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18396584). > > Which would tend to demonstrate that this - is not accurate. > > Regards, > Shodan …_squints eyes_..So you posted a hypothesis in which the “results” were the opposite appeared to be true. But the results are..? where is the actual experiement. In any regard, who gets to determine what is “brutal” and whats not. They didn’t offer a key now did they? I’m talking about percentages of death in those statistics - not the _ **brutality** _ of the beatings the received. this last post just proved to me you’re tyring to be right and not actually have a dialogue. So, ill keep it moving to engage with others and someone else can..play fact check..with you. ---
**Author:** ![SleuFeets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SleuFeets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleuFeets)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/54 "2013-05-10T19:29:31Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > No one has disagreed with any of that. The only disagreement that anyone’s expressed is what a “hate crime” is, legally. And in fact, someone has pointed out to you that (at least under Canadian law) “hate crime” and “domestic violence” are both aggravating factors to the actual crime being committed, and of equivalent strength (if not stronger in the case of DV protection, a lot of the time). > > There’s a problem with enforcement, certainly you’ve proven that. What makes you think that adding another label to these bad behaviors that is under-enforced will make them any more likely to be properly punished? Good question and response. Canada - kicking our ass in civil liberties since 1834. And I’m so happy you acknowlege it’s a problem. Honestly, you’re the first to do it on this thread I do believe. As stated, a lot can be done with correctly naming a problem. I think it’s interesting that hate crimes actually have the intent right there. “hate”. Of note, Like Canada - our hate crime law includes gender as a class that can be discriminated against too - but to date no one has been convicted of a gender based hate crime (despite the many serial rapist/killers that have been caught :dubious: ). I’m saying that because statistics show that gender based violence is real, to continue to not classify it and call it what it is continues the cycle. If someone has a lenghty rap sheet of crimes against women- I believe classifying it as hate is more for public awareness than for the criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/55 "2013-05-10T19:30:00Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > …_squints eyes_..So you posted a hypothesis in which the “results” were the opposite appeared to be true. But the results are..? The results are the opposite of what the experimenters predicted. They thought men would be more brutal than women in how they killed their partners. Instead, women were more brutal than men in how they killed their partners. Which, as I said, tends to mitigate against what you claimed about men and their innate murderous rage. If men were inherently more rageful, then one would expect them to be more brutal. But they aren’t. So that tends to disprove the theory about rageful men. > [@](#): > > So, ill keep it moving to engage with others and someone else can..play fact check..with you. Yes, I am quite sure there are lots of people better qualified to do fact-checking than you. If for no other reason than it will save time figuring out what “statics” are, or what “whopsided” means. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/56 "2013-05-10T19:31:14Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > …_squints eyes_..So you posted a hypothesis in which the “results” were the opposite appeared to be true. But the results are..? where is the actual experiement. In any regard, who gets to determine what is “brutal” and whats not. They didn’t offer a key now did they? Of course they did. > [@](#): > > We secured access to the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)Supplementary Homicide Reports (SHRs) for the years 1976 through 2001 (Fox, 2004). > > … > > SHRs include codes for 16 methods of killing: (a) Shooting by firearm of unstated type, (b) shooting by handgun (i.e., pistol, revolver, etc.), (c) shooting by rifle, (d) shooting by shotgun, (e) shooting by other gun, (f) stabbing with sharp instrument (i.e., knife, cutting instrument, ax, screwdriver, etc.), (g) beating with blunt object (hammer, club, etc.), (h) personal weapon (i.e., hands, feet, teeth, etc.), (i) poison, (j) pushed or thrown out window, (k) explosives, (l) fire, (m) narcotics and drugs, (n) drowning, (o) strangulation (i.e., choking, hanging, drowning, etc.), and (p) asphyxiation. Intimate partner homicides in which the method of killing was coded as unknown were excluded from analyses. > > … > > This resulted in four composite variables, which we labeled shoot, stab, beat, and suffocate-drown-strangle. Using the rationale developed in previous research (e.g., Weekes-Shackelford & Shackelford, 2004), as well as the results of a survey developed to examine the relative perceptions of brutality of homicide methods (Mize, 2006), we decided to further categorize the four variables into two categories (labeled as Less Brutal and Very Brutal). The results of the survey were consistent with the assumptions in previous research in that participants rated the levels of brutality for asphyxiation and shooting similarly and the levels of brutality for beating and stabbing similarly. Thus, for the purpose of determining relative brutality, asphyxiation and shooting are interpreted as reflecting less brutality than beating and stabbing, which arguably inflict greater pain on the victim and require prolonged violence against the victim before he or she expires. > [@SleuFeets](#): > > I’m talking about percentages of death in those statistics - not the _ **brutality** _ of the beatings the received. The study covered that too. They found that gay couples had the highest homicide rate, lesbian couples the lowest, and heterosexual couples in between. Which makes perfect sense: men are more likely to kill, so a male/male pairing is more likely to result in a killing than a male/female one, which is more likely to result in a killing than a female/female one. More men = more killing. Your gender-of-the-victim basis for violence is bunk. ---
**Author:** ![SleuFeets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SleuFeets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleuFeets)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/57 "2013-05-10T19:39:01Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Of course they did. > > The study covered that too. They found that gay couples had the highest homicide rate, lesbian couples the lowest, and heterosexual couples in between. Which makes perfect sense: men are more likely to kill, so a male/male pairing is more likely to result in a killing than a male/female one, which is more likely to result in a killing than a female/female one. More men = more killing. Your gender-of-the-victim basis for violence is bunk. But it does state that men are more likely to kill their parners? and you did just confirm that? Right? That is what I’m seeing. And thanks for putting this back into perspective because I did say gender based violence and we got off on a tangent with the partner dynamics. Though I also talked about rape and murder. SO kudos to you 😉 So we have concluded that: men are more violent in\* all \*relationships women are protected as a class in the hate crime law yet no one has ever been brought up on hate crimes involving gender men do have an anger/violence problem that is overlooked when examining statistics also on whopsided: [http://www.williamsonherald.com/home?id=80648](http://www.williamsonherald.com/home?id=80648) this is a great documentary on the issue: [Tough Guise](http://www.mediaed.org/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=211) ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/58 "2013-05-10T19:39:49Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > I’m saying that the definition be changed. And I’m looking for “no” arguements as if to WHY it shouldn’t be. so far I’ve just gotten “it’s not a hate crime because it’s not one and it’s not considered one - so it’s not”. Who wrote the hate crime laws? Hetero white men I would assume, but I could be wrong. > > that’s what you have been unable to get. Here’s why it shouldn’t be so: A woman is punched, knocked down and kicked on the ground. Right now, that is always a crime (assault and battery). But there are some situations which make it worse and need to be dealt with differently than simple assault: a) The attack was due to her race/religion/sexual orientation/gender and part of a pattern of attacks seeking to restrict her and others of the same race/religion/sexual orientation/gender to secondary status. b) The attack was carried out by her domestic partner, with whom she lives, shares finances, possibly children, and on whom she she may be dependent for survival. Both of those conditions require those crimes to be treated differently. But they are not the same. If we abolished domestic abuse laws and just decided to treat DV as hate crimes, it would make it worse for the victims. Domestic abuse laws are not perfect and can be improved in many ways. But they should be made identical to hate crime laws. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/59 "2013-05-10T19:54:09Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > But it does state that men are more likely to kill their parners? and you did just confirm that? Right? That is what I’m seeing. Men are more likely to kill, period. Ten times more likely, in fact. Mostly they kill other men, per [FBI data](http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0311.pdf), 2008 had 10,582 male murder victims and 3,158 female ones. Which gender needs protection, again? > [@SleuFeets](#): > > And thanks for putting this back into perspective because I did say gender based violence and we got off on a tangent with the partner dynamics. Though I also talked about rape and murder. SO kudos to you 😉 > > So we have concluded that: > men are more violent in\* all \*relationships Yes; men are more violent in virtually all arenas. > [@SleuFeets](#): > > women are protected as a class in the hate crime law yet > no one has ever been brought up on hate crimes involving gender This is evidence that women **aren’t** targeted for being women, relative to how often people are (rarely) targeted for their race or sexual orientation. > [@SleuFeets](#): > > men do have an anger/violence problem that is overlooked when examining statistics Anger and violence aren’t interchangeable. Yes, men commit more violent crime. No, the fact that men commit more violent crime is not overlooked when examining statistics. It is common knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257/60 "2013-05-15T01:26:56Z")
> [@SleuFeets](#): > > men do have an anger/violence problem that is overlooked when examining statistics Quite the opposite. Men are relentlessly told they are violent people. It’s in our movies, it’s in our music, it’s in our art, and it’s in our statistics. On the other hand, [women in art](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPtk7mweahY) who [commit violence](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVEBZLrjpw4) are universally heroines. I can’t possibly imagine how you think this is overlooked by our society. BTW, I’m just curious, are you registered for the Selective Service? If not, why not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-based-violence-why-not-hate-crimes/655257.md?page=2)