# Gender discrimination: What endeavors are closed to men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 27, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725 "2014-11-27T00:01:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/161 "2015-06-29T01:54:24Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > ETA: The class I took, a _professional_ class that supplied practitioners to spas all around the Sonoma/Napa/Calistoga area, had 17 students, of which only 4 were male. The chief instructor (an older female who had been in the biz for umpty-ump years) remarked that it was rare to have more than one male, if any, in a class. The females in the class were _conspicuously_ unenthusiastic about pairing up with a male for the practice sessions, except for two of them that worked with the males a lot and seemed comfortable with that. And this was in a supervised classroom setting! So you attended a \*professional \*class in which 24% of the students were male…how is that a profession closed to men? > [@Senegoid](#): > > Is this remark just pandering to the stereotype that gays (lesbians included) are pervy pedos? No, it’s a remark in direct response to a quoted post which says, “I would like to believe that supervising the girl’s shower room at the high school gym would be restricted to women only”. Do you have another interpretation to offer that doesn’t involve that supervisor being sexually attracted to the girls showering? > [@](#): > > But I don’t picture an adult lesbian getting all jazzed up if she watched a class full of girls showering. Am I wrong? Are you under the impression that lesbian women don’t have sex drives? I don’t think they’re any more prone to ephebophilia than straight men, but if the poster’s concern is sexual attraction to the students (and I can’t imagine what else it might be, but I’m open to other suggestions), then choosing a teacher with sexual attraction to that gender of student - even if that teacher happens to be the same gender as the student - seems the wrong way to go about it. I would suggest that rather we hold all teachers to a high standard of not sexually assaulting their students, no matter what gender the teacher happens to be. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/162 "2015-06-29T19:59:57Z")
I already posted this back in April (post #109), but greeting card retail outlets like Hallmark hire mostly women. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/163 "2015-06-30T00:54:39Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I would like to believe that supervising the girl’s shower room at the high school gym would be restricted to women only … there’s no biological reason a man couldn’t do this job as well if not better than a woman This was brought up as an example of an acceptable form of discrimination in my 8th grade social studies class (the school was in the process of hiring a new girls’ PE teacher & was only accepting applications from women as part of the job involved supervising the lockerroom). Likewise when if the boys’ PE teacher called off the girls’ teacher just did a mixed activity, but there was always a male sub or staff member assigned to the lockerroom. Same deal in high school, though the female PE teacher did enter the boys’ lockerroom to retrieve equipment (it was the only way to get to the storage room where the balls were kept), but she’d always clear it with one of the male teachers that the it was OK for her to come in or that it was empty. Granted they’d just automatically give her the OK wether there were stranglers or not and she did catch a few of my class mates naked or on the toilet (no stall doors, and you had to walk past the toilets to get to the storage room), but nobody really thought anything of it. I imagine it would’ve been a much bigger deal if the sexes were reversed. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/164 "2015-09-27T12:16:30Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is both sad and unjust. If I were in your place, I would firmly put my foot down over this nonsense your wife is advocating. You are your daughter’s parent too and re-arranging your whole family’s life just to avoid male teachers is both bigoted and unreasonable. Reviving this semi-zombie to provide an update. I did put my foot down. I might have “won” only because the local private schools that had places were either of low quality or high cost (30k+ tuition, plus other fees) AND thoroughly inconvenient. After the initial excitement wore of (the kids, including my daughter, were stoked to have a male teacher) the gender of the teacher seems to be a non-issue. Other families did pull kids out of the school. The number of students in fourth grade is lower than the same cohort was in third grade (67 vs 74). Unfortunately this means they dropped from four smaller classes to three larger ones. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/165 "2015-09-27T12:37:31Z")
Thanks for the update! I was just thinking about this the other day and meant to bump it to ask you how it was going. Glad to hear it’s been a non-issue (not surprised, but glad). Sorry that the other parents’ fear and bigotry led to a larger class size; that really stinks. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/166 "2015-09-27T14:07:32Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Thanks for the update! I was just thinking about this the other day and meant to bump it to ask you how it was going. Glad to hear it’s been a non-issue (not surprised, but glad). Sorry that the **other parents’ fear and bigotry** led to a larger class size; that really stinks. The general societal attitude that all males are pedos and pervs seems to be a relatively new cancer (meaning, within the last 30 years or so?) in our society, at least the massive paranoia and FUD about it is, and is very controversial of course. How do you think this compares with what would have happened, say, 40 or 50 years ago? (I had a male teacher in 4th grade, circa 1961, and I don’t think there was any kind of mass uprising about such things back then.) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/167 "2015-09-27T14:19:33Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > How do you think this compares with what would have happened, say, 40 or 50 years ago? I’m only 40, so I really can’t say. 🙂 I do think you’re right that pedo panic is a fairly recent phenomenon. There have always been actual pedophiles, of course, but it seems like this certainty that ANY and EVERY man who puts himself in a position of working with children must be a pervy predator is a thing of the last 20ish years. It’s really sad. (It’s also hard for me to know if it’s really honestly new, or just something I’ve become aware of as an adult; when I was 10, I was certainly told about Stranger Danger, but I don’t know that I would have been privy to grown up conversations like this one.) ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/168 "2015-09-27T17:22:44Z")
Men can never be the smart one in a commercial. They are the dufus boobs who gets straitened out by the women. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/169 "2015-09-27T23:29:40Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Reviving this semi-zombie to provide an update. I did put my foot down. I might have “won” only because the local private schools that had places were either of low quality or high cost (30k+ tuition, plus other fees) AND thoroughly inconvenient. That is good news regardless of the other reasons in your favor. Hopefully, the teacher will be a good one and your wife and others will quickly see the fallacy in their biases. It isn’t acceptable in my view to shun male elementary school teachers for no reason. We could use a lot more of them. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/170 "2015-09-28T06:00:49Z")
In animation (the old kind, not computer animation), the black ink was always done by male artists and the coloring was done by female artists. I’m sure this practice eroded at some point, but it was a strict policy at Disney during Walt’s lifetime, and AFAIK at other American animation houses as well. In comic books, “colorist” was the most common job title for women (men did it too, but female artists were much likelier to get hired in that capacity than as pencillers or inkers). Also, professional crab meat harvesting in the US, like for large-scale canneries–I don’t have a cite for this, it’s just one of those crazy-ass things I heard somewhere once–is done exclusively by women, and pretty much exclusively by black women at that! Men’s hands are too big or something. Please debunk this if you have better information. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/171 "2015-09-28T09:50:52Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Any bloke walks up to a sandpit-full of three-year-olds, my experience is that he’ll be absolutely mobbed. And not just by the little boys. They’re absolutely hungry for male input - because guys do play differently and do things differently than women, and kids sense that. It’s so sad that we’re missing out on that just because society is crazy-paranoid. I noticed that back when my kids were in kindergarten. Dad’s coming in for lunch are treated like celebrities. Why? We are “cool” compared to Moms (sorry Moms). I was constantly being asked to open juice bottles or other containers. Dad’s will often wear uniforms and do funny things like burp or tell jokes. I did little magic tricks or little origami stuff like folding the napkin into something. I could quote Spongebob. Moms? Well… the kids know Mom’s will be telling them to sit up straight, clean their plates, and eat their vegetables. They feel the need to set a proper example. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/172 "2015-09-28T09:57:31Z")
Clowns and magicians. Mostly men. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/173 "2015-12-13T23:33:38Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is good news regardless of the other reasons in your favor. Hopefully, the teacher will be a good one and your wife and others will quickly see the fallacy in their biases. It isn’t acceptable in my view to shun male elementary school teachers for no reason. We could use a lot more of them. Bumping once again. The male teacher turns out to be completely bloody useless. Incredibly lazy. His website has nothing on it. The other teachers all post updates at least once a week on what is going on in class. The first report card was beyond stupid. Ratings seem to be completely random. We have a fair idea of what our kid’s strengths and weaknesses are. They are totally not reflected in the ratings. He seems to spend time in class talking about his personal life excessively. The kids know all about his car, dogs, home repairs, politics and wife. Seems like the other moms knew something about this guy, and it wasn’t that he was a pervert. My daughter and a few of her classmates are going to after school and weekend math and writing classes, just to keep up with the kids in the other sections. The kids LOVE him. What’s not to love? They have less work in fourth grade than they did in first grade. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725/174 "2015-12-13T23:57:24Z")
Well that’s disappointing, and all perfectly good reasons not to like a teacher. Spread that far and wide, loudly and clearly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-discrimination-what-endeavors-are-closed-to-men/705725.md?page=8)