# Gender divide? Feminist Overkill? (I'm not sure what to title this thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 23, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077 "2010-01-23T04:33:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/81 "2010-01-23T21:57:49Z")
Yeah, there’s no difference at all between “I don’t think you’re a bad person” and “you have a lovely body”. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/82 "2010-01-23T22:03:11Z")
Especially one that’s “sweeter than a milkshake.” ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/83 "2010-01-23T22:05:35Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Guy here. > > Maybe you’re right about the gender divide. To me, it looks like the debating was over, he had to leave, and he wanted to leave on a good note and pay you a nice compliment. > > It was his way of saying “Even though we disagree, I don’t think you’re a bad person. I can still admire your looks and see you as a woman instead of a political side I disagree with” > > If he had just left things at the debate, it would have simply been a ruined night of partisan bickering. Both of you would have left hating the other person for being an obtuse political hack. > > By paying you a compliment suited to the venue, he wanted to say that there was no hard feelings and all is forgotten. Nothing wrong with that. I can see this. I left out the particulars of the conversation, so the exact topic and tone are not knowable to people here, which is perhaps why certain posters seem to perceive it as more hostile than it was, but nonetheless, I do see that he may have felt this “compliment” was leaving things on an agreeable note. It was a pleasant, cordial conversation, jokes and laughter intermittent, but ultimately, we disagreed. There are some people who think disagreement at all leads to hostility, no matter how engaging or respectful the conversation has been, so this may have been their way of assuring everyone went to bed happy. If there were an end-on-a-good-note-gesture (which I obviously do not think was necessary, but maybe they did), I thought it would have been the hand shake, and the comments that it was a pleasure having the conversation. Why did they have to insert the “lovely body” business? Just… odd. Edit: Holy shit, Diana G just summed up this entire post in one sentence. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/84 "2010-01-23T22:08:21Z")
**MeanOldLady** , just be thankful the second dude didn’t say you were “sweeter than a _chocolate_ milkshake.” I was wondering if that’s what he was implying, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/85 "2010-01-23T22:12:49Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > If there were an end-on-a-good-note-gesture (which I obviously do not think was necessary, but maybe they did), I thought it would have been the hand shake, and the comments that it was a pleasure having the conversation. Why did they have to insert the “lovely body” business? Just… odd. You keep mentioning over and over how odd and out of place it seemed for them to make a comment about your body. Are you somehow unaware that the entire time they were debating with you they were thinking about what you looked like naked and the different positions they would like to fuck you in, and that in fact most men are doing this all of the time? That’s one area we do know how to multi-task in. No, it wasn’t super smooth, but there’s nothing odd about it. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/86 "2010-01-23T22:21:32Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > You keep mentioning over and over how odd and out of place it seemed for them to make a comment about your body. Are you somehow unaware that the entire time they were debating with you they were thinking about what you looked like naked and the different positions they would like to fuck you in, and that in fact most men are doing this all of the time? That’s one area we do know how to multi-task in. > > No, it wasn’t super smooth, but there’s nothing odd about it. Okay, fine, straight males are constantly undressing every woman they speak to with their eyes. So then it’s not weird to throw out “Nice body!” into conversations? If at work one day someone in the break room said, “Nice gams,” I’d find it to be bizarre and out of place. Bizarre that he noticed? Of course not, but bizarre to say so out loud to me at work in the break room. Obviously, comparing what is appropriate at work and what is appropriate between strangers at happy hour will have the analogy-nazis all in a tizzy, but I think the point of “Don’t say weird shit in weird contexts” still fits. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/87 "2010-01-23T22:27:09Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Okay, fine, straight males are constantly undressing every woman they speak to with their eyes. So then it’s not weird to throw out “Nice body!” into conversations? If at work one day someone in the break room said, “Nice gams,” I’d find it to be bizarre and out of place. Bizarre that he noticed? Of course not, but bizarre to say so out loud to me at work in the break room. Obviously, comparing what is appropriate at work and what is appropriate between strangers at happy hour will have the analogy-nazis all in a tizzy, but I think the point of “Don’t say weird shit in weird contexts” still fits. Weird in the sense of “inexplicable” no, because the explanation is there. It just wasn’t a smooth move. The smooth move would have been to order you a milkshake and then comment about how your milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/88 "2010-01-23T22:30:05Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Guy here. > > Maybe you’re right about the gender divide. To me, it looks like the debating was over, he had to leave, and he wanted to leave on a good note and pay you a nice compliment. > \ Is the gender divide really this big? Guys go straight to “nice body” and skip right over, “It was nice meeting you” or “It was nice talking with you”? I’m leaning more towards socially retarded than just male. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/89 "2010-01-23T22:45:49Z")
I would have found the remark condescending, yes, and also I would have been stuck on his focus on my _body_. I think that’s why **MOL** felt objectified by his compliment. If he had said “_you’re_ hot”, then at least that leaves room to consider that maybe he was talking about _all_ of her: her looks, mind, and personality. But making it be about her body reduced her to a faceless, brainless sexual thing. So no I don’t think the OP overreacted. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/90 "2010-01-23T23:09:34Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > **MeanOldLady** , just be thankful the second dude didn’t say you were “sweeter than a _chocolate_ milkshake.” I was wondering if that’s what he was implying, though. Oh good gods, if you’ve little patience for creepy race fetishes, and you’re not white, don’t move to Minnesota. Moving from CA to MN, I was surprised by the shift in the nature of the come-ons I now receive. Something like half of them are from corn-fed white boys who are really excited by the idea of talking to a dark girl. People will flat out say to me, completely sans code, that they are attracted to me \*because \*I’m not white. Way to see me as a human being, folks. **Rigs** , love, their desire to see the vaginad thing in front of them naked is fine, but I’m afraid we are going in circles. No, it is not weird to be attracted to someone. No, it is not weird to even _zOMG_ picture someone naked while talking to her. Yes, it is weird to point that out during (at least what I perceived to be) a non-flirtatious conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/91 "2010-01-23T23:18:35Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > **Rigs** , love, their desire to see the vaginad thing in front of them naked is fine, but I’m afraid we are going in circles. No, it is not weird to be attracted to someone. No, it is not weird to even _zOMG_ picture someone naked while talking to her. Yes, it is weird to point that out during (at least what I perceived to be) a non-flirtatious conversation. Yeah, that’s why I always try to start flirting early and often if I find a girl attractive, or she might get the wrong impression. Like that I _don’t_ want to have sex with her. Then when you suddenly make her aware that indeed you do, she gets all weirded out by it. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/92 "2010-01-23T23:53:21Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I would have found the remark condescending, yes, and also I would have been stuck on his focus on my _body_. I think that’s why **MOL** felt objectified by his compliment. If he had said “_you’re_ hot”, then at least that leaves room to consider that maybe he was talking about _all_ of her: her looks, mind, and personality. But making it be about her body reduced her to a faceless, brainless sexual thing. > > So no I don’t think the OP overreacted. This. And most of what **DianaG** and **MOL** have said as well. The first comment could be excused by social ineptness, the second one is more extreme social ineptness or just plain cluelessness. Or not. Hard to tell, if it hasn’t happened directly to you. And why not end the discussion with something respectful or just plain civil like “good talking to you” or “thanks for the debate” or some such? Would these guys have said anything remotely analogous if their “opponent” had been male or an elderly woman or a female in a position of power over them (some people do go to bars with their bosses)? I have had similar experiences which left me 😕 as to intelligence and intent of the male. Both comments are patronizing and unnecessary. The first is awkwardly phrased, as noted by **you with the face**. The second one is just bizarre. I think my rxn would have been much like the OP’s: irritation, puzzlement and then curiosity as to whether there is a gender based interpretation to this. I also think there is a disconnect going on here within the posters, and IMO, it’s age related, rather than gender. I’m willing to bet that those who are saying that folks don’t go to bars to debate etc are younger, perhaps in their early 20s. No harm, no foul, but bars are great places to have political debates and other weighty discussions. Whatever floats your boat etc. What I don’t understand is females defending this type of behavior. I don’t really know if any of the defenders are female, but I cannot see how these remarks are in any way flattering or funny (except in an “epic fail” way). Are people so gun-shy of the word feminist\* that they will twist clearly condescending douchebaggery into acceptable male behavior? Color me confused. 😕 I am heartened and glad to see so many males here considering this kind of thing ridiculous. \*I’m not going back to reread and I’m tired, so I am not sure if the “F” word reared its head. It seems like it did, if only in spirit, but that’s another debate entirely–and one I do not have the fortitude to engage in at present. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/93 "2010-01-24T00:21:42Z")
Had the guy who made that comment been one of my friends, I would’ve looked at him like he had a penis growing out of his forehead. It’s obvious what was going through his mind, but what movie was he imagining himself in where that line actually got the desired result? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/94 "2010-01-24T00:21:51Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > I also like how a couple of guys are dismissing your complaint because you’re attention whoring. Sounds awfully similar to the guys in your OP who were dismissing you for other reasons. Next time you start a thread, make sure you’re not doing it just to compliment your own body and mind now. :rolleyes: The guys in the OP were better, IMHO. They at least weren’t trying to belittle MOL. Still, it’s not that hard to understand what’s happening here. The way the OP acted, or the post itself can be considered offensive by some people. The behavior of challenging someone’s political points is considered gauche by many people. You’re supposed to only discuss that sort of thing if you are directly asked. The other is that the OP can be read as bragging. And then we have the dismissal of people’s opinions because they haven’t been in bars as often as she has. She may not be intending to cause offense, but isn’t the whole topic of this thread that that is irrelevant? They made MOL feel bad, so they are obviously douches. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/95 "2010-01-24T00:44:47Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > What I don’t understand is females defending this type of behavior. I don’t really know if any of the defenders are female, but I cannot see how these remarks are in any way flattering or funny (except in an “epic fail” way). Are people so gun-shy of the word feminist\* that they will twist clearly condescending douchebaggery into acceptable male behavior? Color me confused. 😕 I am heartened and glad to see so many males here considering this kind of thing ridiculous. I don’t necessarily think they’re flattering or funny (well, except in the guys’ mind), but I don’t see the condescending douchebaggery in the OP’s example. I DO see it in **FCM** ’s cases, though. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/96 "2010-01-24T00:50:48Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The behavior of challenging someone’s political points is considered gauche by many people. You’re supposed to only discuss that sort of thing if you are directly asked. Huh? If I’m having a conversation with someone, and they put forth their political opinions, I’m being “gauche” by disagreeing unless I’m directly asked? In my opinion, it’s much ruder to expect everyone to bite their tongues while you bloviate. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/97 "2010-01-24T00:59:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’re supposed to only discuss that sort of thing if you are directly asked. Have you read the thread? We were all talking \*to each other.\*They brought it up. Sorry if that was unclear. Perhaps it was considering I deleted my entire OP and started anew. Maybe in my mind, what I was thinking was clear to me, yet I failed to actually write it. I do this more often than I’d like to admit. > [@](#): > > And then we have the dismissal of people’s opinions because they haven’t been in bars as often as she has. Of course I’m dismissive toward people who don’t go to bars, but declare definitively, “This is what happens in bars.” No, it isn’t. I know that you’ve (generic you again) have seen “Swingers” a bunch of times, and you think that bar time equals sexy time, but if you’ve ever been in a real, local, actual bar, you’d realize bars are often a place where friends simply go to hang out. What is acceptable depends on the place and, who you’re talking to, and what you’re talking about. You know, sort of like every place else on the planet. Sorry of the word “bar” carries mystical anything-goes properties to people who haven’t stpped in a bar since the Clinton years. Feel free to comment on whether or not I was unreasonable by taking offense, but don’t pretend like “This is just bars!” is a justification, when everything you know about bars is from Chris Kattan in “Night at the Roxbury.” Anyway, if someone brings up politics (which these guys did), I would like to assume that someone knows good and well there is someone within speaking distance who disagrees and is willing to respond. Accordingly, I responded and a discussion ensued. It was polite enough, we laughed during the conversation, everybody was happy. The “nice bod” comment struck me as insulting an inappropriate. Maybe I’m wrong; I’ve been wrong before. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/98 "2010-01-24T07:06:27Z")
I was with the OP until the last paragraph. You seem to be stereotyping all men, which is just as wrong as what those douchebags said to you. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/99 "2010-01-24T08:46:54Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Okay, fine, straight males are constantly undressing every woman they speak to with their eyes. So then it’s not weird to throw out “Nice body!” into conversations? If at work one day someone in the break room said, “Nice gams,” I’d find it to be bizarre and out of place. Bizarre that he noticed? Of course not, but bizarre to say so out loud to me at work in the break room. Obviously, comparing what is appropriate at work and what is appropriate between strangers at happy hour will have the analogy-nazis all in a tizzy, but I think the point of “Don’t say weird shit in weird contexts” still fits. Maybe not constantly, but it happens a lot. Hell, I’m thinking about it right now and I don’t even know what you look like! 😃 > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Is the gender divide really this big? Guys go straight to “nice body” and skip right over, “It was nice meeting you” or “It was nice talking with you”? I’m leaning more towards socially retarded than just male. Well for one thing, it was at a bar, and it was a social situation, and they were athletes. There was a political discussion so it definitely was not nice meeting and talking with them. They tried to give her a compliment to buttress the harshness of the conversation. I really can’t see it in any other way ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077/100 "2010-01-24T15:27:10Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I was with the OP until the last paragraph. You seem to be stereotyping all men, which is just as wrong as what those douchebags said to you. That last paragraph was largely a joke. Scientifically sound three person sample size, har har. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-divide-feminist-overkill-im-not-sure-what-to-title-this-thread/526077.md?page=6)