# Gender Equality vs "You hit like a girl" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718 "2016-11-05T17:23:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/21 "2016-11-05T21:50:27Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > … The genders are irrelevant. If one person has a significant size and strength advantage over another person, one punch could easily be enough to kill them. Really the disparity in size or strength has nothing to do with it. A single punch is occasionally fatal (or crippling), even between relatively evenly-matched opponents (two adult males, for example). Here in Utah a high-school soccer player fatally punched a referee a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/22 "2016-11-05T21:51:54Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I had a macho, old school Dad, and from the time I was 3, he drilled into my head, “Only sissies hit girls.” > > If a girl were ever drunk or stupid enough to take a swing at me, I’d get away from her- not look for an excuse to punch her back. Third-wave feminists may not be impressed by your chivalry, but I am. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/23 "2016-11-05T22:16:32Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If she died in the hospital from the falling and hitting her head, the guy could be up on manslaughter charges. > > The genders are irrelevant. If one person has a significant size and strength advantage over another person, one punch could easily be enough to kill them. You’re only allowed to use force to defend yourself if you reasonably believe yourself to be in danger. A drunk bitch slapping at you doesn’t rise to the level that you’re allowed to punch them so hard they drop to the floor. “They started it!” isn’t good enough. This injects so many variables into the equation that it’s a real can of worms. Nobody can really analyze so many things while in the heat of the moment. Is someone, when struck by an assailant, supposed to do some form of physical calculation split-second to apply 70% punching force rather than 87% punching force? \* “Hmmm, the person who just attacked me looks to be about two-thirds my size and strength, and I think if I punch with half strength she’ll be OK but with stronger force she may break bones?”\* Another fact further in the man’s defense is that he only punched once. Had he punched her repeatedly, I would be more in your line of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/24 "2016-11-05T22:22:01Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > You’re only allowed to use force to defend yourself if you reasonably believe yourself to be in danger. A drunk bitch slapping at you doesn’t rise to the level that you’re allowed to punch them so hard they drop to the floor. “They started it!” isn’t good enough. Actually, even allowing for the differences in state laws, you have not quite captured a relevant legal standard here. Under the MPC, as I mentioned above, you can use force that is reasonable to protect yourself from unlawful force, not just “if you believe yourself to be in danger.” The video does not answer that question, because it does not show what happened before she hit him; if her punch was occasioned by his prior assault, the analysis is quite different than if her punch was unprovoked. But there’s not much legal relevance to her being a “drunk bitch.” So far as I am aware, New Jersey’s law derives from the MPC language. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/25 "2016-11-05T22:23:51Z")
There is such a thing as reasonable and proportinate force. Edited: Bricker beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/26 "2016-11-05T22:34:42Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I had a macho, old school Dad, and from the time I was 3, he drilled into my head, “Only sissies hit girls.” > > If a girl were ever drunk or stupid enough to take a swing at me, I’d get away from her- not look for an excuse to punch her back. She is not a girl, she is an adult woman. She has a moral responsibility to not start a fight, and it’s entirely her own fault that she attacked somebody both able and willing to defend himself. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/27 "2016-11-05T22:41:29Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I had a macho, old school Dad, and from the time I was 3, he drilled into my head, “Only sissies hit girls.” Someone should’ve drilled a lesson into that woman’s head. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/28 "2016-11-05T22:49:44Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I had a macho, old school Dad, and from the time I was 3, he drilled into my head, “Only sissies hit girls.” > > If a girl were ever drunk or stupid enough to take a swing at me, I’d get away from her- not look for an excuse to punch her back. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Third-wave feminists may not be impressed by your chivalry, but I am. I have no idea what a “third-wave feminist” is but I think chivalry is not exactly the word. Patronizing maybe. Does a man have to be “drunk or stupid” to start a fight with you? If no, then maybe a woman doesn’t have to either. Since we are all people. Is that “third-wave” feminism? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/29 "2016-11-05T22:55:06Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > She is not a girl, she is an adult woman. She has a moral responsibility to not start a fight, and it’s entirely her own fault that she attacked somebody both able and willing to defend himself. To be fair, we don’t know definitively that she did start a fight. What happened before those two punches isn’t shown in the video. What’s shown on the video looks bad for her though. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/30 "2016-11-05T22:57:10Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > A drunk bitch slapping at you doesn’t rise to the level that you’re allowed to punch them so hard they drop to the floor. “They started it!” isn’t good enough. Except the woman in question didn’t SLAP the man, she allegedly PUNCHED the man - and anyone who thinks an adult woman can’t do some damage with a punch has never been in a serious fight. An adult woman is capable of breaking a nose, knocking out teeth, or otherwise damaging another human being regardless of gender. As I said - we’re short on details here. I do think the incident needs to be investigated and possibly charges brought against one or both people involved, but I can not condone the notion that men should simply submit to physical abuse because they’re being abused by a woman instead of another man. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/31 "2016-11-05T23:00:40Z")
I’m sorry but all I see is someone acting in self defence. Notice that he doesn’t follow up the punch and didn’t pull a gun. It also looks like the ground was hard - tarmac, maybe - so she could well have hit her head on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/32 "2016-11-05T23:16:29Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > There is such a thing as reasonable and proportinate force. > > Edited: Bricker beat me to it. Then go ahead and beat him back … I raised my sons to “stand there and take it” when it comes to women … and just not be foolish enough to hang with violent women … There’s a danger in hitting old people … there’s a good chance they’ll just keel over and die and you’ll find yourself up on murder charges … ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/33 "2016-11-05T23:21:02Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I raised my sons to “stand there and take it” when it comes to women … and just not be foolish enough to hang with violent women :smack: This is putting the onus on the victim and enabling the assailant. Imagine these words, applied to victims in any other context. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/34 "2016-11-05T23:22:09Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > There’s a danger in hitting old people … there’s a good chance they’ll just keel over and die and you’ll find yourself up on murder charges … There’s a danger in hitting law-abiding citizens who can hit back and show you the error of your ways; there’s a good chance they’ll do that. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/35 "2016-11-05T23:25:53Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/36 "2016-11-05T23:28:31Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I had a macho, old school Dad, and from the time I was 3, he drilled into my head, “Only sissies hit girls.” > > If a girl were ever drunk or stupid enough to take a swing at me, I’d get away from her- not look for an excuse to punch her back. But if a man were drunk or stupid enough to take a swing at you, you would look for an excuse to punch him back? I don’t see why gender is relevant. If you think it’s better to get away (as I definitely would), then do that. Personally, I think we are too quick to treat a single act as a line that has been crossed, and now everything is understandable. But I can’t offer much on this video that hasn’t already been said. I can’t really tell how hard the punch is, as I have no experience. We don’t know who started it, or what “starting it” actually means. I do think you should try not to punch so hard you cause actual damage unless you actually have to, but I can’t tell you whether that fits this situation. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/37 "2016-11-06T00:05:05Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > I have no idea what a “third-wave feminist” is but I think chivalry is not exactly the word. Patronizing maybe. Does a man have to be “drunk or stupid” to start a fight with you? If no, then maybe a woman doesn’t have to either. Since we are all people. Is that “third-wave” feminism? It was just an off-handed comment, but if you really don’t know, [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism) ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/38 "2016-11-06T00:13:08Z")
This argument is similar to why the police didn’t shoot the gun out of the person’s hand. The entire incident takes place in the span of about a second. How anyone is expected to tone down their response in that time frame is beyond me. You react to the assault to stop it which is what looks like happened. If he had continued his defence after she was clearly incapacitated, then that is a different story. That being said, there might well be more to this story than what the video shows. For those who say you should never hit a woman: assuming these people don’t know each other, how is he supposed to know, in those few seconds, that the person assaulting him is a woman? We live in a world where people dress however they want to reflecting the gender they identify with. How are we supposed to know and why should they care when being assaulted? Two strangers don’t know each other’s capabilities. Is a person with years of combat training supposed to forget that training to take it easy on their opponent? Or do they use those capabilities to stop the attack in the shortest time possible? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/39 "2016-11-06T00:26:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > 1. If a weaker party attacks a stronger party, then it has little basis (to a certain extent) to complain about coming out on the losing side of that altercation. The amount of force used by the United States against the Taliban and al-Qaeda, for instance, has probably exceeded the amount of force used by al-Qaeda against America on 9/11. Is that unfair? Governments aren’t people, and what is right and just for one isn’t right and just for the other. Though I think the ‘War on Terror’ was ill conceived at the start and has been expanded out of proportion. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/40 "2016-11-06T00:28:26Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I had a macho, old school Dad, and from the time I was 3, he drilled into my head, “Only sissies hit girls.” > > If a girl were ever drunk or stupid enough to take a swing at me, I’d get away from her- not look for an excuse to punch her back. +1000 to this. Men have on average greater foot-speed as well as greater upper body strength, so if a woman hits you, use that greater leg strength to, I dunno, _run away_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718.md?page=3)