# Gender Equality vs "You hit like a girl" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718 "2016-11-05T17:23:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/81 "2016-11-06T23:11:57Z")
As predicted, the video didn’t work for me. :rolleyes: My fucking internet! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/82 "2016-11-06T23:27:38Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > My Dad was a polyglot and an erudite man. You are neither. Which really has nothing to do with the discussion. Don’t take this into the personal. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/83 "2016-11-06T23:32:59Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > [snip] … Where do you people keep meeting these abusive women? I’m 55 and have yet to have a woman try to punch me. You’re either exceptionally obnoxious or need to find nicer places to hang out in. I would guess not hitting them first goes one hell of a long way to solving the problem … ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/84 "2016-11-07T00:03:38Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > PS Where do you people keep meeting these abusive women? I’m 55 and have yet to have a woman try to punch me. You’re either exceptionally obnoxious or need to find nicer places to hang out in. What would you say to women who’ve been, ah, assaulted by men? _Where do you people keep meeting these abusive men? Surely you’re provoking them somehow, or hanging out in the wrong places?_ I, of course, hope I’d say to them what I’d say to a guy who defended himself against someone who unjustifiedly threw the first punch: something about asking how I can be of help, and how the criminal is the one who should be punished, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/85 "2016-11-07T00:10:40Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Me too. And because of that I didn’t do anything when I was 10 and an older neighborhood girl, 8th or 9th grade, tormented me. When she grabbed me and dug her nails into my forearm drawing blood I just had to sit there and pretend like it didn’t hurt because what other option did I have? Boys don’t hit girls. Why were you so afraid of your dad you’d let an older girl cut you with her nails? My kids have permission to defend themselves. It’s a natural right. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/86 "2016-11-07T00:22:38Z")
> [@JR\_Brown](#): > > Let’s just state the obvious here: punching people is wrong. She was wrong for hitting him, and, seeing as he could perfectly well have have responded nonviolently or even just left, he was wrong for hitting back. He is culpable of assault, possibly with extenuating circumstances: he hit her hard enough to cause serious injury, he was not in imminent risk of serious injury himself, so self-defense doesn’t apply, and “she started it” is not an excuse. > > If they had both been male the same logic applies. You do not get to injure people without a legitimate claim to self-defense. Based on what we see in the video it certainly looks like he’s got a valid claim of self defense. The young man threw a counter punch less than a second after the young woman, who was still within striking distance, had struck him in the head. Once she was on the ground the threat of attack had ended and the young man ceased any aggressive action on his part. She had just attacked him less than a second before and was still within striking distance. How does this not constitute an imminent danger? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/87 "2016-11-07T00:38:27Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why were you so afraid of your dad you’d let an older girl cut you with her nails? My kids have permission to defend themselves. It’s a natural right. It’s a little more complicated than just my father as there were also expectations placed on me by my peers and the rest of society. I’d dealt with bullies before and gotten into fights but this was the first time a girl had ever gotten physically violent with me and I didn’t know what I was supposed to do. Punch her in the mouth? Great. Now I’m the boy known for beating up a girl. What if I lose? She wasn’t fat but she was quite a bit bigger than me and losing was a real proposition. Now I’m known as the boy who got beat up by a girl. I was a ten-year-old boy trying to navigate what was a complicated social situation which I did by being stoic and pretending like none of it hurt. At the time I didn’t feel as though I had any other viable options. Today my attitudes are a bit different but I’d still hesitate before hitting a woman. Because no matter how justified I might be there are a lot of people who are just going to think it’s wrong that I hit a woman, period, no matter the context. And I figure I’ll be the one who ends up in jail should the police get involved. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/88 "2016-11-07T00:42:04Z")
I shouldn’t have to explain something so obvious but… I wasn’t holding my Dad up as an authority you owe obedience to. I just note that “Don’t hit girls” is good advice that’s ridiculously easy to follow, and which I’ve never had any reason to question. You want to draw up hypothetical reasons to hit girls? Go ahead. I’ve done just fine by listening to Dad. Hitting a girl has yet to strike me as reasonable or necessary. My Mom told me at the same age, “Don’t run with scissors.” Feel free to dream up scenarios in which running with scissors is absolutely essential. Me, I’m inclined to listen to Mom. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/89 "2016-11-07T01:02:40Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I shouldn’t have to explain something so obvious but… > > I wasn’t holding my Dad up as an authority you owe obedience to. I just note that “Don’t hit girls” is good advice that’s ridiculously easy to follow, and which I’ve never had any reason to question. You want to draw up hypothetical reasons to hit girls? Go ahead. I have little need of a hypothetical; the scenario in the clip – the situation which gave rise to this thread – is one that strikes me as just about perfect; I guess the line would be something along the lines of _you shouldn’t throw the first punch, but feel free to act in self-defense if you believe an adult is trying to criminally assault you._ > [@](#): > > I’ve done just fine by listening to Dad. Hitting a girl has yet to strike me as reasonable or necessary. Well, that’s just swell. Do you know, I think there’s an excellent chance that the woman in that clip _also_ heard folks get told not to hit back even if a female strikes them first! That may, in fact, have been what prompted her to (a) make a criminal mistake, and (b) get shown the error of her ways! If so, then it’s _tragic,_ really, that she hadn’t taken that line of mine up there to heart instead; she could’ve been spared all of this if she hadn’t (a) thrown the first punch, _and_ she wouldn’t have (b) been under any illusions about whether men act the way your father thinks they should. If so – and if she wakes up, and if she still hasn’t figured out the way things work in the real world – then I genuinely hope she hears words of wisdom from people like me, instead of getting the wrong idea from people like your dad. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/90 "2016-11-07T01:09:05Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > +1000 to this. > > Men have on average greater foot-speed as well as greater upper body strength, so if a woman hits you, use that greater leg strength to, I dunno, _run away_. Even ignoring the fact that it’s not as if people in violent confrontations can easily run away (because they’re cornered, or knocked down, or whatnot)… what about all those circumstances where we aren’t dealing with average people and the woman is stronger/faster than the man? After all: > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I really wish people would get a better sense of the difference between individuals and statistical norms. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/91 "2016-11-07T01:24:49Z")
“The hardest part about hitting your wife … is stopping …” Crude but I must insist it’s true … hit a man as hard as you can in the jaw and you stand a fairly good chance of breaking your hand … hit a woman thus and and you’re more likely to cave her whole face in … won’t hurt you a bit … there lies the danger … if you’re angry enough to hit anybody … you’re going to be angry enough to beat that poor woman to death … and not even bruise your knuckles … Don’t like “boys don’t hit girls”? … how about “boys don’t hit _anybody_” … fair enough? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/92 "2016-11-07T01:55:14Z")
How about just telling boys _and_ girls not to throw the first punch? How about that? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/94 "2016-11-07T02:20:41Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Where do you people keep meeting these abusive women? Just because it walks like a duck, etc, doesn’t mean it is a duck. I don’t understand this attitude that just because someone has certain genitalia that they get a free pass to assault people and if they have different genitalia they aren’t allowed to defend themselves from the former. Hit back or not? (safe links) [Link](http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-i-am-cait-recap-caitlyn-jenner-20150914-story.html) [Link](https://altpickconnects.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/zave-big-people-5.jpg)🙂 [Link](http://www.scifighting.com/2013/07/16/8156/womens-mma-whats-it-mean-to-you/) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/96 "2016-11-07T04:52:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Except the woman in question didn’t SLAP the man, she allegedly PUNCHED the man - and anyone who thinks an adult woman can’t do some damage with a punch has never been in a serious fight. \*\* An adult woman is capabl\*\*e of breaking a nose, knocking out teeth, or otherwise damaging another **human being regardless of gender**. Capable yes. But unless she is wearing a knuckle duster (though some engagement/wedding rings seem to qualify) or hits at just the right angle, unlikely. As a rule of the thumb, a person can withstand hits from another person of the same size and strength. And in almost all realistic cases, a woman is going to be deficient in strength to a man she is fighting. Her hits aren’t likely to cause him damage (its not a good idea to hit him regardless). His hits could severely injure her. Combat sports are segregated by weight for a reason. The video is example no 1 as to why “never hit a woman” is good advice. What you might think of as a gentle tap could rattle her and even a moderate hit could put her in the hospital. [QUOTE=Broomstick] No one thinks it’s cool to hit women. The difference is that the rest of us don’t think it’s cool to tell them victim of an act of violence that he should just stand there and take it, either. [/QUOTE] Certainly. However, getting away, restraining or blocking are what should be done. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/97 "2016-11-07T05:15:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Capable yes. But unless she is wearing a knuckle duster (though some engagement/wedding rings seem to qualify) or hits at just the right angle, unlikely. As a rule of the thumb, a person can withstand hits from another person of the same size and strength. And in almost all realistic cases, a woman is going to be deficient in strength to a man she is fighting. Her hits aren’t likely to cause him damage (its not a good idea to hit him regardless). His hits could severely injure her. I don’t think the disparity is really that great, and certainly not in a situation like in the video where the man and women are of similar size. Yes, he’s going to be stronger in absolute terms but the notion that the average adult woman couldn’t break the nose of a guy (the bones there are pretty fragile) is pretty ridiculous, as just one example. Men can and do break their knuckles/fingers punching another guy. Likewise, this guy hit the woman at “just the right angle” to knock her out, which was probably as much luck as anything else. Very few people are actually trained to fight other people. And yeah, a lot of women wear rings that can cause damage. So do some men. > [@](#): > > Combat sports are segregated by weight for a reason. Going to a public gathering shouldn’t be a “combat sport”, but if it is, the smaller/weaker party is a damn fool for throwing the first punch. > [@](#): > > The video is example no 1 as to why “never hit a woman” is good advice. What you might think of as a gentle tap could rattle her and even a moderate hit could put her in the hospital. The same could be said for the average man you might hit - in this thread we’ve had at least one account of a man knocked down with one punch, hit his head, and died. Frankly, that’s what really causes the damage here. Slip on a patch of ice and land on your head you could wind up dead, too - it’s not the punch, it’s the fall with the skull impacting a hard surface. > [@](#): > > Certainly. However, getting away, restraining or blocking are what should be done. I’d argue that _anyone_ in the situation the man in the video found himself in should, _ideally_, “get away, or block”. But there’s a gap between theory and practice. And he shouldn’t try to “restrain” unless he’s actually trained to do that, which, again, most people aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/98 "2016-11-07T08:15:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t think the disparity is really that great, and certainly not in a situation like in the video where the man and women are of similar size. Yes, he’s going to be stronger in absolute terms but the notion that the average adult woman couldn’t break the nose of a guy (the bones there are pretty fragile) is pretty ridiculous, as just one example. Men can and do break their knuckles/fingers punching another guy. I didn’t say couldn’t. I said unlikely. As many parents can attest, a good sock ffrom a toddler can give you a shiner, however, we don’t usually think a toddler or an infant can knock you out. And the disparity is really really big. [A man is about 50% stronger in upper body than a](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8477683) woman of the same size as him, add to that they fact that men are usually bigger (in weight and height and build), its not even going to be a comparison. People have seen too many movies and TV Shows where tiny women have bested hulking men and think that is reality. (Not you specifically, you are a much more sensible poster than most). ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/99 "2016-11-07T08:32:18Z")
I doubt that it’s true that a punch that will cripple a woman will not do so to a man, though. There have been plenty of cases of “one punch” attacks killing men (some unprovoked, some as part of a confrontation) I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of a single punch from a woman killing another adult (male or female) though. The disparity seems to be in the ability to deal out damage, rather than take it ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/100 "2016-11-07T08:58:29Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I doubt that it’s true that a punch that will cripple a woman will not do so to a man, though. There have been plenty of cases of “one punch” attacks killing men (some unprovoked, some as part of a confrontation) > > I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of a single punch from a woman killing another adult (male or female) though. The disparity seems to be in the ability to deal out damage, rather than take it ? Bigger head, means that thicker skulls, heavier heads more resistant to hits. The old pugalists rule, small headed boxers, glass jaws. Much stronger neck muscles, better resistance to rotational acceleration caused by hits. Again men have much bigger necks with more muscles. If what you were saying was true than Manny Pacquio would have been fighting the Kiltchsko brothers. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/101 "2016-11-07T09:35:06Z")
I know nothing about boxing one way or another. I do know, though, that [it](http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/patrick-cronin-death-onepunch-victim-to-be-farewelled-in-donvale-20160426-gofr79.html) [is](http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/man-fighting-for-life-after-one-punch-attack-in-south-brisbane-20161008-gry2p4.html) [horribly](http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/coward-punch-victim-thomas-kellys-brother-stuart-dies/news-story/3ec201bfb326d05613f90b37995acc65) [common](http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/mandurah-onepunch-victim-jason-goodwin-dies-in-hospital/news-story/1e8601f3f088e10191c4304e2a452b4f) for men to die as a result of being punched just once by another man. So, whether you’re a man or woman: Man coming at you with fists = you might die Woman coming at you with weapon = you might die but Woman coming at you with fists = very unlikely to die Adult male punches are dangerous. To everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/102 "2016-11-07T09:55:53Z")
I think restrain is a big demand to place on someone who is attacked, espescially when it is to the face. That one party could do more damage than the other is neither here nor there. When you get attcked like that a reaction is instinctive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718.md?page=6)