# Gender Equality vs "You hit like a girl" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718 "2016-11-05T17:23:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![TwiSpark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TwiSpark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwiSpark)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/103 "2016-11-07T10:14:43Z")
People shouldn’t hit people, regardless of gender, unless it’s necessary for self-defence i.e. blocking/restraining isn’t working. Retaliation is just two wrongs trying (and failing) to make a right, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/104 "2016-11-07T10:19:56Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I know nothing about boxing one way or another. I do know, though, that [it](http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/patrick-cronin-death-onepunch-victim-to-be-farewelled-in-donvale-20160426-gofr79.html) [is](http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/man-fighting-for-life-after-one-punch-attack-in-south-brisbane-20161008-gry2p4.html) [horribly](http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/coward-punch-victim-thomas-kellys-brother-stuart-dies/news-story/3ec201bfb326d05613f90b37995acc65) [common](http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/mandurah-onepunch-victim-jason-goodwin-dies-in-hospital/news-story/1e8601f3f088e10191c4304e2a452b4f) for men to die as a result of being punched just once by another man. > > So, whether you’re a man or woman: > > Man coming at you with fists = you might die > Woman coming at you with weapon = you might die > > but > > Woman coming at you with fists = very unlikely to die > > Adult male punches are dangerous. To everybody. Generally speaking smaller guys can be taught to hit as hard as the bigger ones indeed some of the hardest punchers are lighter boxers. What they cannot do is take punishment from the bigger guys. It’s acceleration not force which does most damage. From memory 50g acceleration will KO a human, 200g will be fatal. A=f/m, meaning for the same force the bigger mass will suffer less acceleration. And this is before the fact that men have significantly stronger muscles able to absorb harder hits. So the upshot is that while ideally no one should hit anyone, for a man to hit a woman is extremely dangerous and reckless. This is compounded by the fact that for most men do not realize just how easy it is to hurt a woman with what he thinks is a light hit. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/105 "2016-11-07T12:05:10Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Bigger head, means that thicker skulls, heavier heads more resistant to hits. The old pugalists rule, small headed boxers, glass jaws. > > Much stronger neck muscles, better resistance to rotational acceleration caused by hits. Again men have much bigger necks with more muscles. > > If what you were saying was true than Manny Pacquio would have been fighting the Kiltchsko brothers. Mens’ skulls aren’t _that_ much bigger and heavier (and I’ve handled real human skulls). If anything, it’s the greater amount of muscle that makes a difference to the extent there is one. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/106 "2016-11-07T12:09:51Z")
> [@TwiSpark](#): > > People shouldn’t hit people, regardless of gender, unless it’s necessary for self-defence i.e. blocking/restraining isn’t working. Retaliation is just two wrongs trying (and failing) to make a right, IMO. Blocking and restraining are skills that must be practiced. As noted before, most people are not trained fighters. Improperly restraining a person can hurt or even kill them as well. I think this is another instance there movies and TV have given the wrong impression. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/107 "2016-11-07T12:27:36Z")
Again, this guy threw a counter punch less than a second after he had been attacked and his attacker was still close enough to punch him again. When the woman was no longer a threat he didn’t continue his attack. We can talk about what he ideally should have done but I think it’s pretty reasonable to punch someone who just attacked you and is close enough to continue the attack. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/108 "2016-11-07T16:40:04Z")
For clarification’s sake, who here is arguing that the man should have retaliated with measured, proportional force, and who here is arguing that the man should not have retaliated at all, period? ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/109 "2016-11-07T17:15:23Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Judging by some of the audio from the crowd after he hit her he might well have fled the scene worried about what the woman’s friends and/or uninformed bystanders might do to him - in other words, he might have been afraid for his own safety and ran away rather than risk further violence. > > Don’t know how long it’s been since the incident, but it’s possible he might be securing a lawyer prior to turning himself in. Or maybe he’s just trying to escape any possible consequences. We just don’t know. Which seems to be the refrain in this case. Yes, very true, I didn’t think of that. I still think that waiting to turn himself in looks bad though. > [@AK84](#): > > ? > Bigger head, means that thicker skulls, heavier heads more resistant to hits. The old pugalists rule, small headed boxers, glass jaws. > > Much stronger neck muscles, better resistance to rotational acceleration caused by hits. Again men have much bigger necks with more muscles. > > If what you were saying was true than Manny Pacquio would have been fighting the Kiltchsko brothers. And yet men kill and seriously injure other men with single punches not infrequently, I mentioned an incident in a previous post where two men one trained as a boxer the other in martial arts got into a confrontation, the boxer killed the martial artist with a single punch to the head. Both young men who were quite used to giving and receiving blows, albeit I imagine not directly to the head. Though as is usual in these cases it wasn’t the actual punch that killed, it was striking his head on a concrete pavement when he fell that did the real damage. Still people, men and women, are vulnerable to being knocked out. I’m not convinced men on average are that much less vulnerable to head injuries than women on average, though I’m quite willing to be proven wrong. On a sidenote something I noticed that has become increasingly common is people attacking their opponent when they’ve been knocked to the ground by viciously stamping on their head, I don’t know where that has come from but its absolutely awful and in my opinion should result in a significently higher prison sentence if convicted. > [@Velocity](#): > > For clarification’s sake, who here is arguing that the man should have retaliated with measured, proportional force, and who here is arguing that the man should not have retaliated at all, period? I think he should have retaliated with proportional force but I’m willing to give some benefit to the fact that the whole incident happened so quickly his response may have been instinctual. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/110 "2016-11-07T18:03:58Z")
I watched the video in the OP with the sound off. It looked a lot like the man actually whiffed on the punch. The woman was moving away from the man before the man’s punch arrived, like she was already stumbling away as the punch was coming. There’s no controversy at all about whether or not the man’s punch landed? Does the video come off totally differently if watched with the audio? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/111 "2016-11-07T18:09:05Z")
(double post) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/112 "2016-11-07T18:30:59Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I watched the video in the OP with the sound off. It looked a lot like the man actually whiffed on the punch. The woman was moving away from the man before the man’s punch arrived, like she was already stumbling away as the punch was coming. > > There’s no controversy at all about whether or not the man’s punch landed? Does the video come off totally differently if watched with the audio? I see the punch connecting, without question. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/113 "2016-11-07T18:34:27Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > “The hardest part about hitting your wife … is stopping …” > > Crude but I must insist it’s true … hit a man as hard as you can in the jaw and you stand a fairly good chance of breaking your hand … hit a woman thus and and you’re more likely to cave her whole face in … won’t hurt you a bit … there lies the danger … if you’re angry enough to hit anybody … you’re going to be angry enough to beat that poor woman to death … and not even bruise your knuckles … > > Don’t like “boys don’t hit girls”? … how about “boys don’t hit _anybody_” … fair enough? Why must gender be a role? How about don’t hit unless you want to get hit back? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/114 "2016-11-07T19:30:00Z")
The average woman probably has the upper body strength of maybe the average 10-year-old boy. I wouldn’t punch a 10-year-old boy unless he was attacking me with a weapon, and if I punched one as hard as I could just because he punched me first, I’d expect to go to jail. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/115 "2016-11-07T19:43:08Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The average woman probably has the upper body strength of maybe the average 10-year-old boy. So they should be told not to throw the first punch. If and when that woman wakes up, someone can slowly explain that to her – preferably while arresting her. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/116 "2016-11-07T19:50:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > So they should be told not to throw the first punch. If and when that woman wakes up, someone can slowly explain that to her – preferably while arresting her. Response has to be proportionate to threat–I wouldn’t punch a 10-year-old in the face as hard as I could just because he punched me first. And if anyone did punch a 10-year-old in the face as hard as they could, I’d be fine with sending them to jail. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/117 "2016-11-07T19:54:26Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why must gender be a role? How about don’t hit unless you want to get hit back? Gender plays a role because, in general, men are bigger and stronger than women, and therefore a hit back from a man to a woman is going to be more serious than a hit by a woman on a man. Whether or not a hit back from a man is therefore inherently disproportionate is still an open question. I don’t know how much the woman in the video felt she was protected by the default assumption that “you never hit a girl”. If she did feel that way, she was wrong - “no backsies” is never a wise assumption, not least because it doesn’t always work out. “Don’t start fights if you are not prepared for the consequences, or if you have no other choice” is IMO a much sounder aphorism. The whole incident demonstrates one of the problems with hand-to-hand combat - they don’t die when you want them to, and they sometimes do when you don’t. I hate drunks, especially belligerent drunks, and double especially belligerent drunk women. No matter what you do, you look like a bully, and if they are drunk enough, they can’t take care of themselves. Establish the clinch and take her to the ground? She could still hit her head and die in the fall. Arm/wrist locks, or pain compliance holds, don’t always work on drunks, and women’s arms are too easy to damage. He should have punched her in the tit. It doesn’t leave visible marks, it tends to make a drunk sick to her stomach so she pukes, and they don’t die from it as much. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/118 "2016-11-07T19:57:00Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The average woman probably has the upper body strength of maybe the average 10-year-old boy. I wouldn’t punch a 10-year-old boy unless he was attacking me with a weapon, and if I punched one as hard as I could just because he punched me first, I’d expect to go to jail. The difference is that few, if any people, call for child-adult equality. Plenty of people call for gender equality between adult men and adult women, but some of them are saying that women should have the right to retaliation but men should not. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/119 "2016-11-07T19:59:15Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Response has to be proportionate to threat–I wouldn’t punch a 10-year-old in the face as hard as I could just because he punched me first. And if anyone did punch a 10-year-old in the face as hard as they could, I’d be fine with sending them to jail. As far as I can tell, it’s entirely possible that the assaulted man in the clip responded proportionately. And it’s also entirely possible that the woman in the clip – well, not “responded”, exactly; but just plain hauled off with an attack that was, by definition, “disproportionate” to, y’know, _no threat whatsoever_. If so, then she should be jailed and he should face no charges. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/120 "2016-11-07T20:02:32Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The difference is that few, if any people, call for child-adult equality. Too many people get really weird about gender. They’ll gladly brag about how happy they’d be to punch a woman in the face (probably for psychological reasons that are out-of-scope for this thread), but they’d actually consider their approach when you change it to hitting a child. Basically, if the situation wouldn’t warrant punching a child in the face it probably doesn’t warrant punching a woman in the face. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/121 "2016-11-07T20:03:48Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > As far as I can tell, it’s entirely possible that the assaulted man in the clip responded proportionately. The fact that she’s in the hospital in a coma and he’s probably not even bruised would seem to be evidence of the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/122 "2016-11-07T20:07:07Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Too many people get really weird about gender. They’ll gladly brag about how happy they’d be to punch a woman in the face (probably for psychological reasons that are out-of-scope for this thread), but they’d actually consider their approach when you change it to hitting a child. Basically, if the situation wouldn’t warrant punching a child in the face it probably doesn’t warrant punching a woman in the face. This is probably going to become an we’ll-have-to-agree-to-disagree issue, but an adult woman is not a child. Simply is not. I was going to write a longer post but it essentially just comes to that point again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718.md?page=7)