# Gender Equality vs "You hit like a girl" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718 "2016-11-05T17:23:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/123 "2016-11-07T20:10:01Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The fact that she’s in the hospital in a coma and he’s probably not even bruised would seem to be evidence of the opposite. Well, again, it’s entirely possible that his punch was just enough to down her, such that she’d be up and around and in fine _commit-crimes-against-people_ condition if she’d had the presence of mind to assault someone on grassy turf – but, oopsie, she made the mistake of starting a fight on pavement near a curb. In which case, maybe she’ll commit her next crime more carefully next time? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/124 "2016-11-07T20:49:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This is probably going to become an we’ll-have-to-agree-to-disagree issue, but an adult woman is not a child. Simply is not. I was going to write a longer post but it essentially just comes to that point again. I think I was about 10 by the time I could beat my mother in arm-wrestling, which is why I picked the age. Women are much lighter and weaker than men on average, and especially so in the upper body. I’m relatively big for a man, so maybe my view is distorted, but I can’t seriously see myself feeling at all threatened by an unarmed woman. In fact, I suspect that any woman who hit me would hurt herself much more than she hurt me (e.g., broken wrist). ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/125 "2016-11-07T21:29:22Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The average woman probably has the upper body strength of maybe the average 10-year-old boy. I wouldn’t punch a 10-year-old boy unless he was attacking me with a weapon, and if I punched one as hard as I could just because he punched me first, I’d expect to go to jail. I seriously doubt the average woman is that weak. Plus a properly executed punch involves leg and torso muscles as well. Your whole premise is faulty. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/126 "2016-11-07T21:31:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I seriously doubt the average woman is that weak. Plus a properly executed punch involves leg and torso muscles as well. Your whole premise is faulty. You think an average woman knows how to punch? No fucking way. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/127 "2016-11-07T21:34:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Gender plays a role because, in general, men are bigger and stronger than women, and therefore a hit back from a man to a woman is going to be more serious than a hit by a woman on a man. Whether or not a hit back from a man is therefore inherently disproportionate is still an open question. > > I don’t know how much the woman in the video felt she was protected by the default assumption that “you never hit a girl”. If she did feel that way, she was wrong - “no backsies” is never a wise assumption, not least because it doesn’t always work out. “Don’t start fights if you are not prepared for the consequences, or if you have no other choice” is IMO a much sounder aphorism. > > The whole incident demonstrates one of the problems with hand-to-hand combat - they don’t die when you want them to, and they sometimes do when you don’t. > > I hate drunks, especially belligerent drunks, and double especially belligerent drunk women. No matter what you do, you look like a bully, and if they are drunk enough, they can’t take care of themselves. Establish the clinch and take her to the ground? She could still hit her head and die in the fall. Arm/wrist locks, or pain compliance holds, don’t always work on drunks, and women’s arms are too easy to damage. > > He should have punched her in the tit. It doesn’t leave visible marks, it tends to make a drunk sick to her stomach so she pukes, and they don’t die from it as much. > > Regards, > Shodan If I was the one getting punched by a drunk woman or a drunk man who I perceived wasn’t a threat, I’d leave the situation. I don’t think I’d tit punch or bitch slap or leg kick etc. But I’m large enough to take a hit. Not everyone is physically hard headed enough to take a punch I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/128 "2016-11-07T21:41:41Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I think I was about 10 by the time I could beat my mother in arm-wrestling, which is why I picked the age. Women are much lighter and weaker than men on average, and especially so in the upper body. I’m relatively big for a man, so maybe my view is distorted, but I can’t seriously see myself feeling at all threatened by an unarmed woman. In fact, I suspect that any woman who hit me would hurt herself much more than she hurt me (e.g., broken wrist). Right. Being a large male you might have a different mindset because you are accustomed to being physically dominant and maybe by a large margin. I don’t think smaller males necessarily feel the same way. I’ve seen some videos of women whipping some man ass. And not in a dominatrix sort of way. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/129 "2016-11-07T22:10:54Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > You think an average woman knows how to punch? No fucking way. Thus the “you hit like a girl” stereotype … my step-father was a boxer in his youth and he showed my step-brother and I quite a few “tricks” and techniques … I doubt half the posters here even know what it means to “telegraph a roundhouse” … or just how far a 250 lbs man can shove a woman’s jaw bone into her brain case with it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/130 "2016-11-07T22:13:14Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Thus the “you hit like a girl” stereotype … my step-father was a boxer in his youth and he showed my step-brother and I quite a few “tricks” and techniques … I doubt half the posters here even know what it means to “telegraph a roundhouse” … or just how far a 250 lbs man can shove a woman’s jaw bone into her brain case with it. What does it mean? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/131 "2016-11-07T22:53:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > You think an average woman knows how to punch? Do you think that an average man knows how to punch these days? ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/132 "2016-11-07T22:55:55Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What does it mean? I assume it means spotting when your opponent is preparing to hit you with a roundhouse punch and being ready for it. I’m a little disturbed by the second half of his sentence. There’s a lot of testosterone flying around in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/133 "2016-11-07T23:29:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Right. Being a large male you might have a different mindset because you are accustomed to being physically dominant and maybe by a large margin. I don’t think smaller males necessarily feel the same way. I’ve seen some videos of women whipping some man ass. And not in a dominatrix sort of way. You are exactly correct. I’m a male, but just 5’ 5" and out-of-shape. I don’t think that I would fare well in any sort of physical confrontation with most anyone, unless they were exceptionally tiny and / or weak! There are plenty of women out there who could mess me up, I figure. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/134 "2016-11-07T23:51:01Z")
I’m 5’7" - 5’8", out of shape (desk job with minimal regular exercise), shattered my elbow a couple of years ago, and while I’m sure a woman could bloody my nose or scratch me up (and I have no plans to just stand around and let them do that to me), I suspect I’d end up on the winning end of physical confrontations with most women. Maybe it’s because I’ve had brothers to wrestle with. I don’t think I’d throw a punch at an attacking woman, but I could maybe see myself shoving / tripping her to give myself an opportunity to escape the situation. I suppose there’s an outside chance that even in the act of trying to disengage from a fight, she could fall and crack her skull somewhat like in the video. If a guy was throwing punches at me like the guy’s swing in the video, and I found an opening to, I’d shoot him, and keep shooting him until he went down or broke off his attack. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/135 "2016-11-07T23:56:41Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > On a sidenote something I noticed that has become increasingly common is people attacking their opponent when they’ve been knocked to the ground by viciously stamping on their head, I don’t know where that has come from but its absolutely awful and in my opinion should result in a significently higher prison sentence if convicted. I’ve seen too many videos exactly like this ([just one brutally graphic example](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4e8_1414008526)). If I end up in a fistfight, I’m going to turn it into a gunfight as soon as I can. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/136 "2016-11-08T00:18:55Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The average woman probably has the upper body strength of maybe the average 10-year-old boy. Cite, please. What is the strength of the “average 10 year old boy”? What is the strength of the “average woman”? (Let’s say age 20 to 50 so we can avoid questions about the elderly). ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/137 "2016-11-08T00:59:30Z")
I would have said 12, myself. That’s a personal experience cite too - it’s when my brother started beating me at arm wrestling (I was 23 at the time, and he came up to my shoulder) [This chart](http://www.topendsports.com/testing/norms/handgrip.htm) suggests we’re probably both at least slightly overestimating it - extrapolating data points it looks like boys are hitting the “female peak strength” bar (25-29 year old women) at about age 13. I don’t think **Evil Economist** ’s point is substantially weakened if you change every 10 to a 13 in his posts. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/138 "2016-11-08T01:10:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > For clarification’s sake, who here is arguing that the man should have retaliated with measured, proportional force, and who here is arguing that the man should not have retaliated at all, period? Retaliated is different than defending oneself. What is proportional force? She threw a punch and then he defended himself by throwing one back. Maybe his punch was at half his capability? Do you know it wasn’t? > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Response has to be proportionate to threat–I wouldn’t punch a 10-year-old in the face as hard as I could just because he punched me first. And if anyone did punch a 10-year-old in the face as hard as they could, I’d be fine with sending them to jail. How do I tell a 10-year-old from a 25-year-old? It is very likely that the ten-year-old is over a foot shorter than I am. And if a ten-year-old can look me in the eye and punch me in the face, it really sucks for him when I smack him back. I am not asking for his ID before I defend myself. So, if you are 6’8 and someone 5’3" punches you, then you can probably just push them aside. These two people looked to be of similar heights. How do you know he hit her with all his force and capability. Maybe he pulled his punch? How do you know he didn’t? > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Basically, if the situation wouldn’t warrant punching a child in the face it probably doesn’t warrant punching a woman in the face. I’ve asked, and it hasn’t been answered yet, but how do I know the person is a woman so that I know how to appropriately defend myself? > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The fact that she’s in the hospital in a coma and he’s probably not even bruised would seem to be evidence of the opposite. Jebus. You don’t know that he isn’t bruised. Frankly, if he was reading this thread, he would be stupid to turn himself in. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If a guy was throwing punches at me like the guy’s swing in the video, and I found an opening to, I’d shoot him, and keep shooting him until he went down or broke off his attack. Great. You just punched him in the face, and a half second later you are on the ground in a coma. When are you planning to shoot this fellow? While he was running away? Here’s a better scenario, you punch the fellow in the face, he has a gun and puts two in your chest and one in your head. Is that a proportionate response to your assault? If you can’t answer that in the 1 second that this event took place in while at the same time you had someone’s fist in your face, then you really don’t have anything to criticize this guy for. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/139 "2016-11-08T02:59:26Z")
No one is saying she was right to punch him. What the point is that pretty much any hit from him could injure her. ---
**Author:** ![Smitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Smitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smitty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/140 "2016-11-08T03:13:42Z")
A man should never hit a woman - first. If a woman wants to fight a man, then she should expect to- oh I don’t know- **fight**? You want gender equality, then accept the consequences of your actions without regard to your gender. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/141 "2016-11-08T03:41:21Z")
Please stop confusing “equality”; which is a laudable goal which right minded people would support with “sameness”; which is frankly just in this situation, inane. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718/142 "2016-11-08T03:56:07Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > No one is saying she was right to punch him. What the point is that pretty much any hit from him could injure her. So? You want the consequences for each of their actions to be the same yet this is the real world where they are not. Some weird concept of fairness applied only to men when they are subject to violence. “Suck it up” “Be a man” “Just restrain her (and end up with a sexual assault record because you accidentally grabbed her boob while doing so)” You also want someone who was just hit in the face to calculate all these variables at the speed of Watson before they can act. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-equality-vs-you-hit-like-a-girl/770718.md?page=8)