As predicted, the video didn’t work for me. :rolleyes:
My fucking internet!
Which really has nothing to do with the discussion.
Don’t take this into the personal.
[ /Moderating ]
I would guess not hitting them first goes one hell of a long way to solving the problem …
What would you say to women who’ve been, ah, assaulted by men? Where do you people keep meeting these abusive men? Surely you’re provoking them somehow, or hanging out in the wrong places?
I, of course, hope I’d say to them what I’d say to a guy who defended himself against someone who unjustifiedly threw the first punch: something about asking how I can be of help, and how the criminal is the one who should be punished, and so on.
Why were you so afraid of your dad you’d let an older girl cut you with her nails? My kids have permission to defend themselves. It’s a natural right.
Based on what we see in the video it certainly looks like he’s got a valid claim of self defense. The young man threw a counter punch less than a second after the young woman, who was still within striking distance, had struck him in the head. Once she was on the ground the threat of attack had ended and the young man ceased any aggressive action on his part.
She had just attacked him less than a second before and was still within striking distance. How does this not constitute an imminent danger?
It’s a little more complicated than just my father as there were also expectations placed on me by my peers and the rest of society. I’d dealt with bullies before and gotten into fights but this was the first time a girl had ever gotten physically violent with me and I didn’t know what I was supposed to do. Punch her in the mouth? Great. Now I’m the boy known for beating up a girl. What if I lose? She wasn’t fat but she was quite a bit bigger than me and losing was a real proposition. Now I’m known as the boy who got beat up by a girl. I was a ten-year-old boy trying to navigate what was a complicated social situation which I did by being stoic and pretending like none of it hurt. At the time I didn’t feel as though I had any other viable options.
Today my attitudes are a bit different but I’d still hesitate before hitting a woman. Because no matter how justified I might be there are a lot of people who are just going to think it’s wrong that I hit a woman, period, no matter the context. And I figure I’ll be the one who ends up in jail should the police get involved.
I shouldn’t have to explain something so obvious but…
I wasn’t holding my Dad up as an authority you owe obedience to. I just note that “Don’t hit girls” is good advice that’s ridiculously easy to follow, and which I’ve never had any reason to question. You want to draw up hypothetical reasons to hit girls? Go ahead. I’ve done just fine by listening to Dad. Hitting a girl has yet to strike me as reasonable or necessary.
My Mom told me at the same age, “Don’t run with scissors.” Feel free to dream up scenarios in which running with scissors is absolutely essential. Me, I’m inclined to listen to Mom.
I have little need of a hypothetical; the scenario in the clip – the situation which gave rise to this thread – is one that strikes me as just about perfect; I guess the line would be something along the lines of you shouldn’t throw the first punch, but feel free to act in self-defense if you believe an adult is trying to criminally assault you.
Well, that’s just swell. Do you know, I think there’s an excellent chance that the woman in that clip also heard folks get told not to hit back even if a female strikes them first! That may, in fact, have been what prompted her to (a) make a criminal mistake, and (b) get shown the error of her ways!
If so, then it’s tragic, really, that she hadn’t taken that line of mine up there to heart instead; she could’ve been spared all of this if she hadn’t (a) thrown the first punch, and she wouldn’t have (b) been under any illusions about whether men act the way your father thinks they should. If so – and if she wakes up, and if she still hasn’t figured out the way things work in the real world – then I genuinely hope she hears words of wisdom from people like me, instead of getting the wrong idea from people like your dad.
Even ignoring the fact that it’s not as if people in violent confrontations can easily run away (because they’re cornered, or knocked down, or whatnot)… what about all those circumstances where we aren’t dealing with average people and the woman is stronger/faster than the man?
After all:
“The hardest part about hitting your wife … is stopping …”
Crude but I must insist it’s true … hit a man as hard as you can in the jaw and you stand a fairly good chance of breaking your hand … hit a woman thus and and you’re more likely to cave her whole face in … won’t hurt you a bit … there lies the danger … if you’re angry enough to hit anybody … you’re going to be angry enough to beat that poor woman to death … and not even bruise your knuckles …
Don’t like “boys don’t hit girls”? … how about “boys don’t hit anybody” … fair enough?
How about just telling boys and girls not to throw the first punch? How about that?
Just because it walks like a duck, etc, doesn’t mean it is a duck. I don’t understand this attitude that just because someone has certain genitalia that they get a free pass to assault people and if they have different genitalia they aren’t allowed to defend themselves from the former.
Capable yes. But unless she is wearing a knuckle duster (though some engagement/wedding rings seem to qualify) or hits at just the right angle, unlikely. As a rule of the thumb, a person can withstand hits from another person of the same size and strength. And in almost all realistic cases, a woman is going to be deficient in strength to a man she is fighting. Her hits aren’t likely to cause him damage (its not a good idea to hit him regardless). His hits could severely injure her.
Combat sports are segregated by weight for a reason.
The video is example no 1 as to why “never hit a woman” is good advice. What you might think of as a gentle tap could rattle her and even a moderate hit could put her in the hospital.
[QUOTE=Broomstick]
No one thinks it’s cool to hit women.
The difference is that the rest of us don’t think it’s cool to tell them victim of an act of violence that he should just stand there and take it, either.
[/QUOTE]
Certainly. However, getting away, restraining or blocking are what should be done.
I don’t think the disparity is really that great, and certainly not in a situation like in the video where the man and women are of similar size. Yes, he’s going to be stronger in absolute terms but the notion that the average adult woman couldn’t break the nose of a guy (the bones there are pretty fragile) is pretty ridiculous, as just one example. Men can and do break their knuckles/fingers punching another guy.
Likewise, this guy hit the woman at “just the right angle” to knock her out, which was probably as much luck as anything else. Very few people are actually trained to fight other people.
And yeah, a lot of women wear rings that can cause damage. So do some men.
Going to a public gathering shouldn’t be a “combat sport”, but if it is, the smaller/weaker party is a damn fool for throwing the first punch.
The same could be said for the average man you might hit - in this thread we’ve had at least one account of a man knocked down with one punch, hit his head, and died. Frankly, that’s what really causes the damage here. Slip on a patch of ice and land on your head you could wind up dead, too - it’s not the punch, it’s the fall with the skull impacting a hard surface.
I’d argue that anyone in the situation the man in the video found himself in should, ideally, “get away, or block”. But there’s a gap between theory and practice. And he shouldn’t try to “restrain” unless he’s actually trained to do that, which, again, most people aren’t.
I didn’t say couldn’t. I said unlikely. As many parents can attest, a good sock ffrom a toddler can give you a shiner, however, we don’t usually think a toddler or an infant can knock you out.
And the disparity is really really big. A man is about 50% stronger in upper body than a woman of the same size as him, add to that they fact that men are usually bigger (in weight and height and build), its not even going to be a comparison.
People have seen too many movies and TV Shows where tiny women have bested hulking men and think that is reality. (Not you specifically, you are a much more sensible poster than most).
I doubt that it’s true that a punch that will cripple a woman will not do so to a man, though. There have been plenty of cases of “one punch” attacks killing men (some unprovoked, some as part of a confrontation)
I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of a single punch from a woman killing another adult (male or female) though. The disparity seems to be in the ability to deal out damage, rather than take it
?
Bigger head, means that thicker skulls, heavier heads more resistant to hits. The old pugalists rule, small headed boxers, glass jaws.
Much stronger neck muscles, better resistance to rotational acceleration caused by hits. Again men have much bigger necks with more muscles.
If what you were saying was true than Manny Pacquio would have been fighting the Kiltchsko brothers.
I know nothing about boxing one way or another. I do know, though, that it is horribly common for men to die as a result of being punched just once by another man.
So, whether you’re a man or woman:
Man coming at you with fists = you might die
Woman coming at you with weapon = you might die
but
Woman coming at you with fists = very unlikely to die
Adult male punches are dangerous. To everybody.
I think restrain is a big demand to place on someone who is attacked, espescially when it is to the face.
That one party could do more damage than the other is neither here nor there. When you get attcked like that a reaction is instinctive.