# Gender identity and bathrooms **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 16, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352 "2014-12-16T03:08:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/41 "2014-12-17T16:38:12Z")
[language note]In English the toilet appliance used by men to stand while pissing is called a “urinal”, not a “urinary”. Just thought you might like to know. [/language note] ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/42 "2014-12-17T16:42:45Z")
Yeah, I actually knew that… it’s one of those things that’s hard to remember when most of the English you speak is with other ESL speakers, though. I swear the Dope should be allowed at work just on account of “I need it to practice my English.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/43 "2014-12-17T16:46:03Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > The first line of outrage is the cisgender women themselves who may be offended or scared . Many people consider “cisgender” to be an offensive term. Perhaps we shouldnt use it here on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/44 "2014-12-17T16:56:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Many people consider “cisgender” to be an offensive term. Perhaps we shouldnt use it here on the SDMB. What would qualify as a replacement? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/45 "2014-12-17T17:01:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Many people consider “cisgender” to be an offensive term. Perhaps we shouldnt use it here on the SDMB. On the other hand, those people are idiots. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/46 "2014-12-17T17:11:03Z")
When our kids were young and in need of supervision we went camping in France. The conveniences were a very modern block and they had what I have always considered to be the ideal arrangement. Inside the door was a fairly large space with wash basins and mirrors around - there would be people washing, using the hair dryers and men shaving there. Leading off were several corridors - a couple with stalls and WCs and a couple with shower rooms, some of which were double sized for family use. This meant that my wife or I could take the little ones for their showers without any difficulty, they would put robes on before coming out to the communal area. There were also a few stalls with wash basins for those who wanted more privacy. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/47 "2014-12-17T17:59:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Many people consider “cisgender” to be an offensive term. Perhaps we shouldnt use it here on the SDMB. Folks, this is DrDeth’s special “wedge issue” he pushes in several transgender threads or topics here. It’s the same “wedge issue” as the argument that calling non-LGB people “straight” is offensive. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/48 "2014-12-17T18:09:43Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Folks, this is DrDeth’s special “wedge issue” he pushes in several transgender threads or topics here. It’s the same “wedge issue” as the argument that calling non-LGB people “straight” is offensive. Hmm. I just checked. I complained about this once in the last 12 months. In that time, 5 other posters have made the same point. Hardly a “wedge issue” on my part. And I made my request as polite as possible, but since you want to continue: Did you not say \*“It’s sometimes quite irritating when cisgender people lecture us on what we are supposed to call ourselves.” \* Why cant we be annoyed when _you_ lecture\* us\* on what _we_ are supposed to call ourselves? Since I am polite enough to not use the terms _you_ find offensive, why cant you do the same? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/49 "2014-12-17T18:14:08Z")
Because your ‘request’ is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/50 "2014-12-17T18:17:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Since I am polite enough to not use the terms _you_ find offensive, why cant you do the same? My question stands… what do you offer as a replacement? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/51 "2014-12-17T18:17:11Z")
I’m not sure why I, a cisgender person, am supposed to be offended at the term “cisgender”. It’s not my favorite word, I don’t have any affection for it, really, but it is a pretty precise term and much less awkward than the alternatives I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/52 "2014-12-17T18:20:01Z")
I’m pretty sure I’ve never used the term cisgender in my life, although I know what it means. I don’t find it offensive and it’s less clumsy than saying “non-transgendered.” ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/53 "2014-12-17T18:20:46Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > It’s the same “wedge issue” as the argument that calling non-LGB people “straight” is offensive. I’d say that “cisgender” has a technical accuracy that “straight” lacks. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/54 "2014-12-17T18:28:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Many people consider “cisgender” to be an offensive term. Perhaps we shouldnt use it here on the SDMB. > [@Ethilrist](#): > > What would qualify as a replacement? > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > On the other hand, those people are idiots. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Hmm. I just checked. I complained about this once in the last 12 months. In that time, 5 other posters have made the same point. Hardly a “wedge issue” on my part. And I made my request as polite as possible, but since you want to continue: > > Did you not say \*“It’s sometimes quite irritating when cisgender people lecture us on what we are supposed to call ourselves.” \* > > Why cant we be annoyed when _you_ lecture\* us\* on what _we_ are supposed to call ourselves? > > Since I am polite enough to not use the terms _you_ find offensive, why cant you do the same? **Moderator Note** You should be aware that this is not an appropriate discussion for GQ. If you want to pursue it, take it to IMHO or GD. Drop this discussion here. This goes for everyone. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/55 "2014-12-17T18:40:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Many people consider “cisgender” to be an offensive term. Perhaps we shouldnt use it here on the SDMB. I myself am offended by the term white. It makes me feel so bleached. ETA: sorry, just saw the above post. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/56 "2014-12-17T20:16:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Hmm. I just checked. I complained about this once in the last 12 months. If that is indeed the case (I cannot search from here) then I apologize to you for suggesting you had done so in multiple instances. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/57 "2014-12-18T00:07:15Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Keeping in mind that this is GQ, where we focus on facts rather than opinions, I’d like to ask what motivates society to establish segregated restrooms in the first place. It has always seemed to me that a bathroom is - by its very nature - a place where one’s private plumbing is potentially exposed, and we want the privacy of excluding people who might want to invade that privacy. In a fully heterosexual world, segregated restrooms are a very simple way to insure that privacy. > > But in a world that concedes the reality of homosexuals and transgenders, I don’t know how to insure that privacy to any meaningful degree. If I am in a restroom designated for people of my plumbing, and someone walks in who appears to be of the same plumbing, I have no way of knowing whether that person is: a heterosexual who would not be interested in me sexually, or a homosexual who _would_ be interested in me sexually, or a transgender who (depending on the direction of transition) would or wouldn’t. > > Given all the indeterminacies, I gotta wonder if it might be simpler to abandon the idea of separate gender restrooms. In a world that concedes the reality of all these varied sexualities, what purpose do they serve? Well, it is about both privacy and safety. In aggregate, A man who might violate the privacy of a woman is simply far more threatening than a woman who might violate the privacy of another woman. I hate to pick on my own gender here in this example, but there are simply far more violent male perverts than female. Transgendered individuals, especially outwardly male individuals, are in a difficult position, because they are vulnerable using the facility of their outward plumbing; and yet freely allowing those with “outward” plumbing to use the facilities of the opposite gender also increases the opposite gender’s risk, however slightly. The ethically (even if not _legally_) necessary key to be discreet; look and act the part, and do not draw attention to oneself in the bathroom (good advice to everybody actually). ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/58 "2014-12-18T04:33:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Since I think the OP has been answered… Trust me ladies–. you do NOT want to go into the men’s room. We hold our farts in all the time when we’re around you, we need one place where we can just let it go, let it GOOOOO! What do you think women do with their farts? Oh, that’s right, they smell like peaches. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/59 "2014-12-18T04:33:59Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is what people are commenting against though. I have shared bathrooms and even houses with many people, both male and female. I don’t want to be too coarse about it, but it isn’t like you are dropping a load with a group of strangers as performance art. When is the last time that you really had to take an epic pee or a poop in a public place in front of random strangers with no privacy? > > I can honestly say that has never happened to me in a public restroom and I assume it is true for the vast majority of the people. Privacy already exists for almost all public restrooms whether you are male or female but people seem to be using that to hint at some deeper problem even though it isn’t the real source of contention. > > Everything you are commenting on is completely arbitrary and situation dependent. Women that claim they can’t pee in anything other than pristine marble settings suddenly can when they get out in the woods on a hiking trip and really need to go. I have seen it happen many times. They can find a tree as fast as any mammal when the need arises. > > There isn’t anything sexual about basic biological functions and they are completely context dependent. When people complain about the current situation, that isn’t what they really mean. They are trying to complain about something more obscure and deeper to their thought processes. Suitable lavatories for everyone is an easy problem to solve but I doubt that is what some people are really hinting at. SOME privacy exists in public bathrooms. It is far from complete. Sounds and smells, for one thing. . . . In addition, it seems clear that you have never bothered to pay attention to your surroundings while in a public bathroom. Many stall doors do not fit tightly. There is very often a small but perceptible gap between the door and the doorframe. From certain angles, it is possible to see a great deal more than you want to see. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352/60 "2014-12-18T08:20:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Since I think the OP has been answered… Trust me ladies–. you do NOT want to go into the men’s room. We hold our farts in all the time when we’re around you, we need one place where we can just let it go, let it GOOOOO! What? You think women don’t fart? You think those farts don’t stink? I’m always amazed by how many men don’t realize women fart or that there is negligible difference between man farts and woman farts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-and-bathrooms/707352.md?page=2)