# "Gender identity" is mental illness **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 23, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011 "2013-08-23T22:38:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/181 "2013-08-27T17:23:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Having made it to 100 episodes, this thread is now in reruns. Yeah. I’m ready to try another channel. There really needs to be a rule about people who won’t even search for past threads. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/182 "2013-08-27T17:32:50Z")
So women don’t mind men in their locker rooms? Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/183 "2013-08-27T18:09:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So women don’t mind men in their locker rooms? Got it. Now try the same thing…only using the words she actually said. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/184 "2013-08-27T18:14:35Z")
She said that it’s okay for men to be in the locker rooms. As long as they believe themselves to be women. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/185 "2013-08-27T18:18:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > She said that it’s okay for men to be in the locker rooms. As long as they believe themselves to be women. The good news is that if you’re not even going to try, it’s easy to ignore your “contribution.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/186 "2013-08-27T18:31:54Z")
> [@](#): > > and the women I know, welcome our trans sisters into our bathrooms! So penises are allowed in the locker rooms and bathrooms. Under certain circumstances. Which are quite arbitrary, IMO. If a man in a women’s locker room is a threat of some sort, the threat doesn’t diminish because of his gender identity. Or what he SAYS his gender identity is. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/187 "2013-08-27T18:46:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So women don’t mind men in their locker rooms? Got it. I started a poll: [Cis Women- Do you have an issue with trans women who've not had SRS in the women's room? - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=700644) Let’s see what (cis) women mind, ok? We’re both bringing biases to this conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/188 "2013-08-27T18:47:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > She said that it’s okay for men to be in the locker rooms. As long as they believe themselves to be women. Apparently, it’s not just polling data that you have trouble reading. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/189 "2013-08-27T19:09:40Z")
I was just going to leet the polling data answer you, but I can’t help myself. > [@adaher](#): > > She said that it’s okay for men to be in the locker rooms. As long as they believe themselves to be women. Persons who believe themselves to be women ARE women, and therefore should use the women’s restrooms. THAT is what I am saying. If there is a rash of men saying they are women so they can get into our bathrooms and fuck with us, I may revisit this stance. Since that issue is completely made up inside your head, however, I’m comfortable. The real issue is trans women needing to use the bathroom like all humans do, and assholes trying to make their life harder. This is something that _actually occurs_. Therefore, I give it higher priority. > [@adaher](#): > > So penises are allowed in the locker rooms and bathrooms. Under certain circumstances. Which are quite arbitrary, IMO. If a man in a women’s locker room is a threat of some sort, the threat doesn’t diminish because of his gender identity. Or what he SAYS his gender identity is. Penis are allowed in the women’s room if they are attached to women. This isn’t difficult. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/190 "2013-08-27T19:21:56Z")
Let’s backtrack a moment here. Why are the sexes separated in situations where they will remove their clothing? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/191 "2013-08-27T19:24:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Let’s backtrack a moment here. Why are the sexes separated in situations where they will remove their clothing? A better question is what exactly do you think happens in a woman’s restroom? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/192 "2013-08-27T19:29:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Let’s backtrack a moment here. Why are the sexes separated in situations where they will remove their clothing? I don’t know. I think it’s silly, really. I’d prefer unisex. I suspect it’s an old custom dating back to when they sexes were always segregated to protect women’s virtue or some shit. It’s probably time to change it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/193 "2013-08-27T19:31:22Z")
The same thing that happens in a men’s restroom, with men getting stalls because they can stand up. Bathrooms are designed with biological sex in mind, not gender, per se. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/194 "2013-08-27T19:32:40Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I don’t know. I think it’s silly, really. I’d prefer unisex. I suspect it’s an old custom dating back to when they sexes were always segregated to protect women’s virtue or some shit. It’s probably time to change it. That works for me as well. IMO, the best way to get rid of the stigmas is to erase the social differences between genders. I also happen to think that would eliminate transgenderism as well, since I believe the issue arises from a sexist society. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/195 "2013-08-27T19:34:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Let’s backtrack a moment here. Better idea: let’s get back to the actual subject. The discussion here is about identity, not about who has to go where when they take a leak or get dressed. If you read the thread you might learn a little about the different ways people think about themselves. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/196 "2013-08-27T19:47:26Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Most of the posts on this board aren’t thinly veiled hate speech against marginalized groups. > > Since you refused to answer my other questions, I assume the answer is no, you have no knowledge or expertise in this area. Nor are you interested in learning, since the question wasn’t “I don’t understand the diagnoses and treatment of trangenderism” but “‘Gender Identity’ is a metal illness”. Which doesn’t even make any sense, as has been pointed out, but then, I don’t expect intelligence from someone who would start a thread like this. I’m going to go ahead and assume you’ve never knowingly met a transgendered person either. > > You have nothing to add to this conversation, and your “questions” are offensive and stupid. If you had a modicum of tact, you would have asked in a way that didn’t deny the lived experiences of all the transgendered individuals on this board, and you could have educated yourself. You could have googled it, or gone to a library, or called the GLBT community center in your city and asked for information. You could have behaved like a decent, intelligent, kind-hearted person, but you chose not to. > > You are not entitled to an opinion. You are entitled to an _informed_ opinion, which you do not have. Stop flaunting your stupidity. I think you are making a foolish mistake here. Instead of rationally discussing your opinion and facts and leaving it at that. You are hurting your position by making him an enemy. This person’s opinion on the subject DOES matter. Don’t you realize that? They will, in some form or fashion, likely interact with a transgendered individual, and furthermore are likely to discuss transgendered issues with other people. And his opinion MAY effect the way others think. While they may be wrong, and I do think they are, the way you approach the situation is wrong also. As to appeal to authority - it is an invalid argument in this case - as I believe it lacks expert consensus. I could be wrong, however. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/197 "2013-08-27T19:50:05Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Trans kids today are some of the toughest humans I know. I’m actually lecturing at my old high school in a couple of months, speaking to the student body for an incredible 90 minutes about transgender awareness. I’ve been told by the teacher sponsoring the event that there are a handful of trans kids there, all of whom are too terrified to come out, even in this much more liberal environment. I’m going to show them a proud and out transsexual woman, successful in life, and offer to meet and talk privately with anyone who needs help. Help I wish to God someone had offered me. Ditto on everything you wrote about trans kids and thank you for speaking at your old high school about your own life. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/198 "2013-08-27T20:59:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That works for me as well. IMO, the best way to get rid of the stigmas is to erase the social differences between genders. I also happen to think that would eliminate transgenderism as well, since I believe the issue arises from a sexist society. I don’t think that would happen, but I think it’s a good idea regardless. 🙂 Let’s do this! > [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I think you are making a foolish mistake here. Instead of rationally discussing your opinion and facts and leaving it at that. You are hurting your position by making him an enemy. Posting hate speech made him my enemy. If he was interested in rationally discussing facts, he could have posted an OP that wasn’t dehumanizing and transphobic. > [@](#): > > This person’s opinion on the subject DOES matter. Don’t you realize that? They will, in some form or fashion, likely interact with a transgendered individual, and furthermore are likely to discuss transgendered issues with other people. And his opinion MAY effect the way others think. While they may be wrong, and I do think they are, the way you approach the situation is wrong also. Uh oh, the tone police arrived! Yeah… no. He’s wrong, and tiptoeing around that is a disservice to all the smarter, kinder people who bother to do a little research before they come on here and insult valued board members. I don’t have an obligation to hold someone’s hand and gently lead them down the path to righteousness. You wanna call my friends crazy? Then you’re asking for what you get, buddy. > [@](#): > > As to appeal to authority - it is an invalid argument in this case - as I believe it lacks expert consensus. I could be wrong, however. Hilarious. (you are, in fact, wrong. but thanks for playing!!) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/199 "2013-08-27T21:17:03Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I think you are making a foolish mistake here. Instead of rationally discussing your opinion and facts and leaving it at that. You are hurting your position by making him an enemy. > > This person’s opinion on the subject DOES matter. Don’t you realize that? They will, in some form or fashion, likely interact with a transgendered individual, and furthermore are likely to discuss transgendered issues with other people. And his opinion MAY effect the way others think. While they may be wrong, and I do think they are, the way you approach the situation is wrong also. > > As to appeal to authority - it is an invalid argument in this case - as I believe it lacks expert consensus. I could be wrong, however. I’ve never put much stock in the idea that disadvantaged minorities must at all times be polite and well-tempered in order to secure their liberties. Certainly, even a cursory examination of the course of civil rights movements over the last two centuries shows precious little support for the idea. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011/200 "2013-08-27T21:30:45Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > …Penis are allowed in the women’s room if they are attached to women. This isn’t difficult. LMAO! And I suppose they\* produce “women-sperm” !! 😃 Anyhow, what a ridiculous metric – where do guys with fabricated tits & a fully adult penis that also happen to be exclusibly gay go piss? Would you have someone from Homeland (sex-check) Security asking them at the door? \*Ya know, the “women penises” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-identity-is-mental-illness/667011.md?page=11)