# Gender, race, and other issues (split off from Doper Demographics thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 7, 2022, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091 "2022-09-07T00:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/201 "2022-09-08T18:19:08Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Are you saying the board has a rule prohibiting people from using definitions of “men” and “women” that accord with what has been used traditionally? Guidelines can be found here: > [@Guidelines for posting on transgender issues on the SDMB](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guidelines-for-posting-on-transgender-issues-on-the-sdmb/937563): > > Guidelines for discussion of transgender issues on the SDMB Discussions of transgender issues are often fraught and opinions tend to be polarized. Nonetheless, the SDMB believes frank conversation reflecting a wide diversity of views is the surest way to establish common ground. To facilitate such discussion, please observe the following guidelines, which apply to all forums except the Pit, where guidelines 2 through 6 apply. (The first two guidelines apply to all discussion regardless of subje… This paragraph specifically applies (bolding mine): 1. Do not deliberately misgender another poster – **that is, refer to them by a pronoun or other sex-specific term indicating a gender other than the one they identify as**. This applies only in cases where a poster’s gender identity is reasonably clear. Likewise, do not deliberately misgender off-board figures. This is a more rigorous standard than we apply in other contexts; we do not normally mod posters for merely insulting off-board figures. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/202 "2022-09-08T18:19:30Z")
I’m not complaining about the rule. I don’t really care. I’m just saying my reading of her complaint is different than your reading of her complaint. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/203 "2022-09-08T18:20:15Z")
No, it has not only been true. @iiandyiiii, this is that solipsistic narcissism I mentioned earlier. What do you think nightclub bouncers spend at least a third of their time doing? They keep on an eye on the restroom area so that when that drunken asshole mysteriously finds his way into the women’s, he can get tossed. Well, at least that used to be the case. Now that is changing because women are increasingly being told it’s not a big deal if that drunk asshole barges in. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/204 "2022-09-08T18:21:47Z")
I’m not seeing in this list what @Left_Hand_of_Dorkness asserted. There is no rule about what definitions can be use, right? ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/205 "2022-09-08T18:22:23Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Now that is changing because women are increasingly being told it’s not a big deal if that drunk asshole barges in. No one has ever said this. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/206 "2022-09-08T18:24:36Z")
A problem when used as an excuse to assault trans people, obviously. But it’s still the proper thing to do when a bad person with bad intentions goes into a bathroom to prey on women. Trans people should not be reported for being trans; bad people with bad intentions should be reported and expelled/arrested. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/207 "2022-09-08T18:25:04Z")
What happens in a nightclub is irrelevant to an ATMB thread. This thread is about the rules here and the enforcement of those rules, and how it affects users here, and how those effects are causing the SDMB to be skewed towards old white males. Keep the discussion relevant to the rules and moderation here. If you feel that something should change, then state what you think needs to change. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/208 "2022-09-08T18:25:54Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In the past, you’ve defined “man” in a way that leads to violation of board rules. This is what I’m questioning. A reading of the rules that were just posted show this assertion is false, and I don’t know what you are basing this on. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/209 "2022-09-08T18:25:58Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Why are you obfuscating whether your use of the term MAN is intended to include trans women? Because that’s the _entire_ issue. If it does, and if it’s so _exhausting_ for you to use the unqualified words man and woman in a straightforward manner that is respectful to the human dignity of trans people, feel free to find a community that is less exhausting for you, and don’t let the door hit you on the way out. In particular, if YWTF refers explicitly to cis men, and just stays out of any discussion of trans people, i see no reason why she can’t start a thread about the value of excluding cis men from female-designated spaces. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/210 "2022-09-08T18:26:19Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > There is no rule about what definitions can be use, right? Referring to someone that identifies as a woman as a “man” is deliberate misgendering and is a clear violation of the rules. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/211 "2022-09-08T18:29:52Z")
How _this_, > [@YWTF](#): > > The issue is that men cannot be excluded from women’s spaces when policies **prohibit occupants from assessing someone as male and acting on this assessment**. doesn’t result in _that_ escapes me. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/212 "2022-09-08T18:31:58Z")
I have never done that. Is it verboten to define man as an adult human male (with male referring to sex)? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/213 "2022-09-08T18:35:33Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Is it verboten to define man as an adult human male (with male referring to sex)? If it results in deliberate misgendering, then yes, it is verboten. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/214 "2022-09-08T18:37:39Z")
I don’t understand what they even means, but it’s moot anyway. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/215 "2022-09-08T18:38:52Z")
It depends on the definitions. If they’re using it to try and protect themselves from cis men predators, then it’s reasonable (there are indeed lots of cis men predators). If they want to exclude and harm trans people, then it’s bad. Occasionally someone might make a mistake. This will be possible no matter the policy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/216 "2022-09-08T18:39:26Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > I don’t understand what they even means, but it’s moot anyway. You have been told over and over again what it means. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/217 "2022-09-08T18:45:23Z")
Given the claims I’ve seen about the predatory nature of homosexuals it’s only a matter of time before this shit is also applied to lesbians. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/218 "2022-09-08T18:56:30Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > it’s only a matter of time before this shit is also applied to lesbians. [That’s already happening.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/04/05/teachers-groomers-pedophiles-dont-say-gay/) > D. Rae Garrison, the principal of a middle school in West Jordan, Utah, who is openly LGBTQ, said her phone pinged with a text from an unknown number last year. The stranger wrote saying, “We know you’re a lesbian and we’re not comfortable with you being around our young girls,” Garrison said. She contacted police, but they were unable to trace the message. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/219 "2022-09-08T18:59:47Z")
I’m sure it’s already happening. EDIT: Ninja’d! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/220 "2022-09-08T19:00:36Z")
Is it happening on this board? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091.md?page=12)