# Gender, race, and other issues (split off from Doper Demographics thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 7, 2022, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091 "2022-09-07T00:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/241 "2022-09-08T19:59:33Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > When I say men I mean the vast majority of adult people classified as male. They are biologically analogous to roosters, stallions, lions, and bulls. They are the group that has historically held almost all the power. That’s sex. Not gender. So basically you object to Ed’s guidelines. We’re not changing those. Deal with it. > [@YWTF](#): > > It poses a problem for women when men, _as a group_, are allowed unfettered entry into spaces where they are vulnerable. That is my position. How does this have anything to do with the rules and moderation of the SDMB? ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/242 "2022-09-08T20:07:15Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > So basically you object to Ed’s guidelines. We’re not changing those. Deal with it. I’m not asking you to change them. I’m simply answering the question yall have uncharitably accused me of evading. So now that I’ve answered it, I’m being told my expressed opinion goes against the board’s rules because it is considered a form of hate speech. And that’s exactly what my position in this thread has been all along. My case is rested. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/243 "2022-09-08T20:12:39Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > And that’s exactly what my position in this thread has been all along. If your “position in this thread” all along has been that misgendering transgender people by insisting on referring to them by their birth-assigned sex rather than their identified gender is prohibited on these boards for violating hate-speech rules, then you are absolutely correct. I don’t get why you seemed not to understand that until just now. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/244 "2022-09-08T20:13:16Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > I’m simply answering the question Well, you didn’t answer it _simply_. The question asked was quite straightforward - when you use the unqualified term “men”, are you including trans women? Yes or no would have been a _simple_ answer. The answer does not require reference to roosters. > [@YWTF](#): > > the question yall have uncharitably accused me of evading. You mean the one you evaded, at one point explicitly refused to answer, and then eventually answered only in an evasive convoluted manner about 200 posts after it was first asked? Perhaps our Faith and Hope can at least survive this unfortunate uncharitable episode. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/245 "2022-09-08T20:27:18Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > And that’s exactly what my position in this thread has been all along. This is also objectively false. Your position has included > [@YWTF](#): > > The subject of women’s rights cannot be discussed on this board without it turning into a witch burning contest. and > [@YWTF](#): > > People are reluctant to broach controversial subjects with each other unless they already know going into it that they see things the same way > [@YWTF](#): > > Moralizing and emotionalism has overtaken this board. It is not a place conducive for adult discussions. and > [@YWTF](#): > > I have made my point clear about the tenor on this board. > > You and others are also making it clear what this tenor actually looks like. It’s ugly and boring. Only a pathetic handful of nobodies gets any pleasure reading it. If you’d stuck to the position of, “I want to be able to call transwomen ‘men’ and suffer no consequences for it,” this back-and-forth wouldn’t have gone on so long. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/246 "2022-09-08T20:35:25Z")
The mods have discussed this topic quite a lot recently. > [@YWTF](#): > > So now that I’ve answered it, I’m being told my expressed opinion goes against the board’s rules because it is considered a form of hate speech. No. You are not allowed to discuss it because you have a specific topic ban. Other posters are allowed to discuss whether trans women should be allowed in designated women-only spaces, so long as the language they use is respectful. So, they may say that they think trans women don’t belong. Or that people who retain the penis and testicles they were born with don’t belong. Or that people with high testosterone don’t belong. Or that people who look like men don’t belong. (Although that last has been the bane of a lot of cis women who happen to have some masculine features.) What they can’t say is that trans women don’t belong there because they are really _men_. It’s referring to trans women as men that is hate speech. Not discussing the political and social issues around where trans people can do what. Now, some posters may say that those trans-exclusionary opinions are hateful. But that’s not the board’s rules. That being said, “women-exclusive spaces” is far from the only issue that affects women differently from men. Your topic ban is only on this one narrow issue of trans women. You are free to discuss any of the many other women’s issues, so long as you do so respectfully. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/247 "2022-09-08T20:36:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@YWTF](#): > > > > I have made my point clear about the tenor on this board. > > > > You and others are also making it clear what this tenor actually looks like. It’s ugly and boring. Only a pathetic handful of nobodies gets any pleasure reading it. ⁢ I missed this one. I would argue this one should count as a persaonal attack. Calling everyone who enjoys this board a “pathetic handful of nobodies” is attacking all of us. It suggests her goal was just to piss everyone off. And it’s exactly the sort of stuff that was why she got her topic ban, before the rules about misgendering existed. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/248 "2022-09-08T20:39:04Z")
Anybody have a link to the topic ban? A brief search didn’t turn up anything. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/249 "2022-09-08T20:40:52Z")
See this post: > [@Thread and Topic Bans for Great Debates](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-and-topic-bans-for-great-debates/847725/2): > > Topic Bans: Board wide Topic Ban for ZosterSandstorm on CRT. He is banned from posting about CRT. He has shown no improvement despite multiple warnings. Username: Topic YWTF is banned from Transgender threads, threads touching on Transgender issues and talking about J.K. Rowling. They have made a habit of derailing threads on Transgenderism. updated 2023-02-25 Crane is banned from Transgender threads. This is a board-wide ban. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/250 "2022-09-08T20:43:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It suggests her goal was just to piss everyone off. I took it as she was just pissed off. I tend to be a bit forgiving of things like this in ATMB because I want people to actually say what they think so that issues actually get out into the open and resolved. That doesn’t mean that everyone has free rein to misbehave in here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/251 "2022-09-08T20:44:37Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Or that people with fish testosterone dinner belong. …and I thought I was an adventurous eater! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/252 "2022-09-08T20:55:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > …and I thought I was an adventurous eater! 😃 I figured **puzzlegal** is Scottish, and “dinner” means “dinnae,” but I really can’t figure out “fish.” “Too much”? Or maybe she meant exactly what she said. “Dude, you can’t come in this bathroom! Unless you brought me a _very specific meal._” ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/253 "2022-09-08T20:55:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > …and I thought I was an adventurous eater! > > 😃 I figured **puzzlegal** is Scottish, and “dinner” means “dinnae,” but I really can’t figure out “fish.” “Too much”?  It’s a puzzle. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/254 "2022-09-08T21:08:26Z")
It’s a band name. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/255 "2022-09-08T21:12:39Z")
I mean, a fish dinner does increase your testosterone levels. > **[Natural Ways to Boost Testosterone](https://www.webmd.com/men/ss/slideshow-low-testosterone-natural-boost)** > > Find out from WebMD what you can do to raise your testosterone levels naturally, including changes to your diet and lifestyle. But a _fish testosterone_ dinner does not boost your testosterone levels. It’s the Vitamin D. Still, I think we can parse it as fish (testosterone dinner) … a dinner designed to increase your testosterone levels, consisting of fish. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/256 "2022-09-08T21:17:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > Or that people with fish testosterone dinner belong. > > …and I thought I was an adventurous eater! Fixed. Oops ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/257 "2022-09-08T21:17:25Z")
I really hope **puzzlegal** does not explain “fish testosterone dinner” and this becomes one of the great SDMB mysteries. ETA: dammit! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/258 "2022-09-08T21:17:48Z")
Oh phooey, she edited it for clarity. puzzlegal, that was a beautiful anomalous sentence though. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/259 "2022-09-08T21:18:02Z")
> [@susan](#): > > It’s a band name. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091/260 "2022-09-08T21:18:50Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Oh phooey, she edited it for clarity. puzzlegal, that was a beautiful anomalous sentence though. It was, but since i was trying to clarify official policy, i thought it best to actually, you know, be clear. Sorry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-race-and-other-issues-split-off-from-doper-demographics-thread/971091.md?page=14)