# Gender rules in the military **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 11, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400 "2009-06-11T00:55:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/1 "2009-06-11T00:55:45Z")
Why don’t women in the military need to get their heads shaved? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/2 "2009-06-11T01:12:27Z")
I assume you mean during Basic Training, as otherwise, guys don’t need to get their heads shaved either. I think mostly it’s just a case of social norms making it socially unacceptable for female recruits to get the “Buzz Cut” during Basic Training. That said, guys in Basic don’t have to worry about finding the time to wash their hair and style it in such a way as to keep it within uniform regs during the day. That said, IANAguywhowritesmilitarygroomingregulations, so someone who knows more will probably wander by later. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/3 "2009-06-11T01:35:56Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > I assume you mean during Basic Training, as otherwise, guys don’t need to get their heads shaved either. I think mostly it’s just a case of social norms making it socially unacceptable for female recruits to get the “Buzz Cut” during Basic Training… Women are not _allowed_ to shave their heads. They’re required to maintain a feminine appearance as much as possible. I remember watching a documentary on Parris Island and one the female drill intructors mention how when she join (about 20 yrs ago) female Marines still had to take lessons on the proper way to apply makeup. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/4 "2009-06-11T14:47:35Z")
One of my friends was in the Marines and is one of the most feminine ladies I know. She’s now the lead singer in a Pagan heavy metal band. _[G.I. Jane](http://www.girlsincamo.com/celebs/gijane1.jpg)_ was fiction. In the game Civilization III, Joan d’Arc, when she’s in the modern era, wears a t-shirt that says “ARMÉE” and she has a G.I. Joan buzz cut. I guess that’s fiction too. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/5 "2009-06-11T14:57:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Women are not allowed to shave their heads. We need to define a _shaved head_. If you mean running clippers with no guard on than yes, a woman can have a shaved head and I have seen them in Navy, Army, and Marines. I am active duty in the Navy _now_ and have been for the past eight years, stationed in a Joint Command with Army, and the ship I was on had up to 1800 Marines on board. So, I have seen woman pass inspection with a shaved head. Now, if you mean _Bic’d_ where after you run clippers over you shave it with shaving cream, then, no. Women can not, by instruction, have a shaved head. In instructions this is referred to as a shaved scalp. To recall exact experiences: I had an EMO who was an LDO LT (O-3) who had a shaved head. I worked with --for a short time-- a cook who was an E5 with a shaved head, and, there was a female Chief (an E7) who also had a shaved head. All on my ship during the four years that I was on it. I could go on about Marines and Army but I won’t. eb ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/6 "2009-06-11T15:29:29Z")
A small move toward what **alphaboi** said… [USS Dwight D. Eisenhower Opens Beauty Salon for Business](https://navhome.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=45636) [This is the navy grooming standard instruction for the Navy](http://www.umich.edu/~umnrotc/DOCS/GroomingStandards.pdf). Chapter 2 has everything you ever wanted to know and more. Females are allowed some freedom, but not much, wrt how they appear in uniform. Hair can’t be below the collar. Shaved scalp on females is addressed with: “Hairstyles shall not be outrageously multicolored or faddish, to include shaved portions of the scalp (other than the neckline)” If a silly young sailor wanted to shave her head and argue that there are no _portions_ shaved, rather it’s _all_ shaved, that’s covered with: “Because it is impossible to provide examples of every appropriate or unacceptable hairstyle or of “conservative” or “eccentric” grooming and personal appearance, the good judgment of leaders at all levels is key to enforcement of Navy grooming policy. Therefore, hair/grooming/personal appearance while in uniform shall present a neat, professional appearance.” ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/7 "2009-06-11T15:58:29Z")
Can I hijack a little with a somewhat related question? On the Colbert Report the other night, he was interviewing a female soldier (I don’t recall anything about her rank/job) and there was mention of the fact that women cannot directly engage in combat/be on the front lines. I don’t recall the exact words used. Why is this? I am more than willing to recognize that women, on average, are not as strong as men and therefore might not be able to, for example, carry a fallen comrade back to safety…is this rule because of some practical limitations on women’s strength/size/etc? Or is it because that part of the world is very much male-dominated and a captured female soldier would possibly suffer more as a POW; raped/tortured/killed before a male soldier would be? I apologize in advance if this hypothesis comes across as offensive; I don’t mean it to be. I’m just trying to think of reasons other than old-school sexism in the US forces as to why women wouldn’t be able to engage in combat in Iraq/Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/8 "2009-06-11T17:21:35Z")
Shaved? When I was in the Army, men could not shave their heads either. Buzzed, high and tight, but not shaved. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/9 "2009-06-11T22:36:30Z")
I have heard this question asked many times, always by young men who are peeved because the women don’t get their heads shaved. Hey, female recruits didn’t set the policy. Policy is set by some cabal of officers or senior NCOs, and at some point they decided for whatever reason that female recruits would not get their heads shaved. If they’d shaved women’s heads when I enlisted, I still would have enlisted, and so would every female soldier I’ve asked. Hair grows back. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/10 "2009-06-11T22:45:12Z")
When we went to my brother’s AF basic graduation many of the women had done their hair up in various ways, some really pretty, to stay within policy. If I’d gone in, I would have just gone super-super short. It looked like way too much of a headache otherwise. I think it’d be fair to have everybody lose the hair for basic. They can grow it back later if they want to deal with it then. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/11 "2009-06-11T22:52:19Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Can I hijack a little with a somewhat related question? On the Colbert Report the other night, he was interviewing a female soldier (I don’t recall anything about her rank/job) and there was mention of the fact that women cannot directly engage in combat/be on the front lines. I don’t recall the exact words used. > > Why is this? > > I am more than willing to recognize that women, on average, are not as strong as men and therefore might not be able to, for example, carry a fallen comrade back to safety…is this rule because of some practical limitations on women’s strength/size/etc? > > Or is it because that part of the world is very much male-dominated and a captured female soldier would possibly suffer more as a POW; raped/tortured/killed before a male soldier would be? I apologize in advance if this hypothesis comes across as offensive; I don’t mean it to be. I’m just trying to think of reasons other than old-school sexism in the US forces as to why women wouldn’t be able to engage in combat in Iraq/Afghanistan. [Moderating] I think this is a pretty significant hijack from the rather simple question posed in the OP. This topic would be much better dealt with in GD than here in GQ. I would suggest that if you really want to pursue it, you open another thread there. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/12 "2009-06-11T22:52:49Z")
Edit: responded to the post above that was a hijack. Removed post. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/13 "2009-06-12T00:10:34Z")
I was going along with the “gender rules” idea and thought the two topics could be considered as linked. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/14 "2009-06-12T04:00:20Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > I was going along with the “gender rules” idea and thought the two topics could be considered as linked. My apologies. No need to apologize. We certainly allow some tangential discussion in GQ. However, it just seemed to me that that the question you posed was potentially so much more contentious than that in the OP that it would be better to raise it in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/15 "2009-06-12T04:31:24Z")
never mind ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/16 "2009-06-12T04:38:29Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Can I hijack a little with a somewhat related question? On the Colbert Report the other night, he was interviewing a female soldier (I don’t recall anything about her rank/job) and there was mention of the fact that women cannot directly engage in combat/be on the front lines. I don’t recall the exact words used. To address the GQ portion of this post, I must note that women _can, have and do_ participate in combat. I’ve known several of them personally. What they cannot do is train for and work in a [Combat Arms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Arms) MOS. But female mechanics, truck drivers, MPs, interpreters, etc are getting shot at and shooting back in Iraq all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/17 "2009-06-12T12:55:44Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > To address the GQ portion of this post, I must note that women _can, have and do_ participate in combat. I’ve known several of them personally. What they cannot do is train for and work in a [Combat Arms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Arms) MOS. But female mechanics, truck drivers, MPs, interpreters, etc are getting shot at and shooting back in Iraq all the time. Also, the Navy and Air Force at least both have female combat pilots, flying bombers, fighters, and attack jets. [Here](http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/109862.jpg) is a great picture of a female A-10 pilot inspecting the damage done to her A-10 by ground fire during the early days of the current war in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-rules-in-the-military/499400/18 "2009-06-12T17:41:32Z")
Thank you. I’ve done some Googling and satisfied my curiosity enough - I’m not particularly interested in debating the issue, but just wanted to know the official position on the topic. These answers have clarified what was mentioned on the Colbert Report. Thanks again!