# Gender Segregation and the Olympics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719 "2018-02-12T20:55:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/81 "2018-02-14T04:22:05Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > What about chess? I can’t speak to bridge, but [men dominate high-level chess.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_chess_players) I also can’t speak to _why_ this is true, but it does seem to be true. For example, the [highest-rated female player at the moment](https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=8602980) has an [Elo rating of 2654](https://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=women); this is [good for #96](https://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men) for all active players. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/82 "2018-02-14T05:00:55Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Why does it seem that this only seems valid as an excuse, and not an actual limitation? Because you aren’t even trying to understand the opposing view. Ski-cross had been an accepted sport in the International Ski Federation since 2004. And people petition the Olympics for inclusion constantly. > [@](#): > > Do you have a cite that this BC supreme court didn’t have as information? It’s sexual discrimination almost by definition. Doesn’t mean it’s unreasonable to do so for a sports based entertainment event. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/83 "2018-02-14T05:01:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I don’t know at this point if you’re open to facts, but there’s an answer for this: Because there was no international federation asking the IOC to let women jump. I don’t know at this point if you are open to facts, but in case that last post was too involved. [http://www.wsjusa.com/olympic-inclusion/](http://www.wsjusa.com/olympic-inclusion/) > [@](#): > > In 2006, **the IOC executive committee turned down** the **International Ski Federation’s (FIS) overwhelming recommendation** that a women’s ski jumping event be added to the 2010 Games in Vancouver. At the time, the IOC maintained that women’s ski jumping lacked universality – **despite having more athletes and more countries competing internationally at the elite level than other Winter Olympic sports for women.** > > For example, at the time of the IOC decision, women’s ski jumping had 83 athletes from 14 nations competing at the highest levels; skier cross had 30 athletes from 11 nations; bobsleigh 26 athletes from 13 nations, luge had 45 athletes from 17 nations, and skeleton had 39 athletes from 12 nations. And common sentiment, documented here. [https://iz.ru/news/564243](https://iz.ru/news/564243) > [@](#): > > - What do you think about making women’s jumps in the Olympic program? > > - I admit, I’m not a supporter of women’s jumps from a springboard. This is quite a serious and traumatic sport. If a man gets a serious injury, it’s not fatal, but for women everything can be much more serious. If I had a daughter, I would never give in jumping - this is too hard work. Women have a different purpose - to give birth to children, to be engaged in housekeeping, to create a family home. Despite your deflection by attacking my character, what _facts_ did your post even provide? It appears you were opining and not offering facts. If I am in error please provide a cite as an ad hominem attacks will never change my position. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/84 "2018-02-14T05:06:53Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Because you aren’t even trying to understand the opposing view. Ski-cross had been an accepted sport in the International Ski Federation since 2004. And people petition the Olympics for inclusion constantly. > It’s sexual discrimination almost by definition. Doesn’t mean it’s unreasonable to do so for a sports based entertainment event. From Rick Jay’s post > [@](#): > > The International Olympic Committee does not simply choose sports and events on their own. It doesn’t work that way. The events and participation therein are largely determined by the appropriate international federation for that sport. Those federations not only pitch the events to the Olympics, but the IOC relies on them to provide most of the technical support for how they should be run. [ul] [li]The International Ski Federation’s (FIS) is the world’s highest governing body for international winter sports.[/li][li]The IOC ignored FIS’s overwhelming recommendation that a women’s ski jumping event be added.[/li][li]This was a women’s event with large amounts of international participation at an elite level.[/li][/ul] I provided cites there, can you provide cites or can you only offer opinion that doesn’t match multiple more authoritative sources data? Because I seem to be the only person offering cites or _facts_. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/85 "2018-02-14T05:11:56Z")
> **[After Long Fight for Inclusion, Women’s Ski Jumping Gains Olympic Status...](https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/sports/skiing/07skijumping.html)** > > A long fight for inclusion, including a failed lawsuit in 2010, ends in a victory and a place in the Sochi Games in 2014. > [@](#): > > In 2005, Gian Franco Kasper, the president of the International Ski Federation, told an NPR reporter that ski jumping “seems not to be appropriate for ladies from a medical point of view.” Yet another cite, showing bias that will be hand waved away with no cite and only opinion as a rebuttal. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/86 "2018-02-14T07:04:34Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/sports/skiing/07skijumping.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/sports/skiing/07skijumping.html) > > Yet another cite, showing bias that will be hand waved away with no cite and only opinion as a rebuttal. It is a cite. But an irrelevant cite of one person’s bias is proof of what exactly? In actual science, evidence shows real differences in the aggregate between male and female brain. As to be expected. [How men's and women's brains are different | Stanford Medicine](https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html) ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/87 "2018-02-14T07:29:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It is a cite. But an irrelevant cite of one person’s bias is proof of what exactly? > > In actual science, evidence shows real differences in the aggregate between male and female brain. As to be expected. [How men's and women's brains are different | Stanford Medicine](https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html) Gian Franco Kasper, the president of the International Ski Federation since 1990 and a member of the IOC post 2000? The HEAD of the organization that blocked women’s participation in the World Cup, which then others claim that it wasn’t “established” The same individual who voted deny participation in Vancouver, even when a woman, Lindsey Van held the overall normal hill record on that jump until the actual Olympics where the best male competitor only officially beat that distance by 2.5 meters? The International Ski Federation ruled that ski jumping is too dangerous for women, making it the only winter Olympic sport that had no female competitors? > [@](#): > > “It’s like jumping down from, let’s say, about two meters on the ground about a thousand times a year, which seems not to be appropriate for ladies from a medical point of view,” the federation’s president Gian Franco Kasper said on National Public Radio. Even with less opportunity, and a smaller allowed field the top Women competitors were in the same distance and by total score Maren Lunby would have had the gold. > **[PyeongChang 2018 Ladies’ Normal Hill Individual Results - Olympic ski-jumping](https://olympics.com/en/olympic-games/pyeongchang-2018/results/ski-jumping/ladies-normal-hill-individual/)** > > Find out who took home gold, silver and bronze in 2018. Official results of the ski-jumping Ladies’ Normal Hill Individual event at the PyeongChang Winter Olympics. > **[PyeongChang 2018 Ladies’ Normal Hill Individual Results - Olympic ski-jumping](https://olympics.com/en/olympic-games/pyeongchang-2018/results/ski-jumping/ladies-normal-hill-individual/)** > > Find out who took home gold, silver and bronze in 2018. Official results of the ski-jumping Ladies’ Normal Hill Individual event at the PyeongChang Winter Olympics. Seriously, I concede due due a battle of attrition because hand waving this away as “one person’s bias” really just proves that cites and facts don’t matter at all in this thread anymore. Espically when you provide cites that say: > [@](#): > > Our differences don’t mean one sex or the other is better or smarter or more deserving. Some researchers have grappled with charges of “neurosexism”: falling prey to stereotypes or being too quick to interpret human sex differences as biological rather than cultural. And > [@](#): > > All these measured differences are averages derived from pooling widely varying individual results. While statistically significant, the differences tend not to be gigantic. They are most noticeable at the extremes of a bell curve, rather than in the middle, where most people cluster. While claiming that they do matter in sports. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/88 "2018-02-14T08:21:57Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Gian Franco Kasper, the president of the International Ski Federation since 1990 and a member of the IOC post 2000? > > The HEAD of the organization that blocked women’s participation in the World Cup, which then others claim that it wasn’t “established” > > The same individual who voted deny participation in Vancouver, even when a woman, Lindsey Van held the overall normal hill record on that jump until the actual Olympics where the best male competitor only officially beat that distance by 2.5 meters? > > The International Ski Federation ruled that ski jumping is too dangerous for women, making it the only winter Olympic sport that had no female competitors? > > Even with less opportunity, and a smaller allowed field the top Women competitors were in the same distance and by total score Maren Lunby would have had the gold. > > [PyeongChang 2018 Ladies’ Normal Hill Individual Results - Olympic ski-jumping](https://www.olympic.org/pyeongchang-2018/results/en/ski-jumping/result-ladies-normal-hill-individual-fnl-0002sj-.htm) > > [PyeongChang 2018 Ladies’ Normal Hill Individual Results - Olympic ski-jumping](https://www.olympic.org/pyeongchang-2018/results/en/ski-jumping/result-ladies-normal-hill-individual-fnl-0002sj-.htm) > > Seriously, I concede due due a battle of attrition because hand waving this away as “one person’s bias” really just proves that cites and facts don’t matter at all in this thread anymore. So what? It’s one sport. We are talking about sport in general. Not one person’s opinion on women in one particular sport. > [@](#): > > Espically when you provide cites that say: > > And > > While claiming that they do matter in sports. Read the article a bit more carefully. It seems you only want to see what you want to see while ignoring things that you actually quoted like the “extremes of the bell curve.” Well where in the world do you think Olympic or top professional caliber sports lie? The extreme of the bell curve. The brains scan differently. The brains have regions of different sizes. Saying biology, which the brain is part of, plays no role is strictly an ideological argument. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/89 "2018-02-14T08:50:13Z")
Just because hand-waving this away as “one person” with bias is so unjustified in this case I’ll add this. [https://www.olympic.org/mr-gian-franco-kasper](https://www.olympic.org/mr-gian-franco-kasper) Non-IOC roles: Organiser of Skiing and Bobsleigh World Championships Secretary General (1975-1998) then President (1998-) of the International Ski Federation (FIS); Secretary General (1975-1998) then President (2000-2002, then 2014-) of the Association of International Olympic Winter Sports Federations (AIOWF); Member of the following IOC Commissions: Radio and Television (1981-2015) Coordination for the XIX Olympic Winter Games Salt Lake City 2002 (1999-2002) Coordination for the XX Olympic Winter Games Torino 2006 (2000-2006) Olympic Games Study (2002-2003) Coordination for the XXI Olympic Winter Games Vancouver 2010 (2003-2010) Coordination for the XXII Olympic Winter Games Sochi 2014 (2007-2014) Coordination for the XXIII Olympic Winter Games PyeongChang 2018 (2011-) For him to claim that women are too fragile to ski jump **is the smoking gun**. He has been the principal administrator or president in control of the administrating body (FIS) for over 40 years. And note this short list of names. [https://www.olympic.org/coordination-commissions](https://www.olympic.org/coordination-commissions) And if you want to know just how long this bias in ski jumping has been going on here is a good page. > **[Women’s Ski Jumping Takes Aim at the Winter Olympics | International Skiing...](https://www.skiinghistory.org/history/women%E2%80%99s-ski-jumping-takes-aim-winter-olympics)** > > A century-and-a-half after a Norwegian woman soared 20 feet in the world’s first recorded ski-jumping event, female flyers were still fighting for international recognition.At the first recorded event in history dedicated solely to ski jumping, one... ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/90 "2018-02-14T09:02:44Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So what? It’s one sport. We are talking about sport in general. Not one person’s opinion on women in one particular sport. > > Read the article a bit more carefully. It seems you only want to see what you want to see while ignoring things that you actually quoted like the “extremes of the bell curve.” Well where in the world do you think Olympic or top professional caliber sports lie? The extreme of the bell curve. The brains scan differently. The brains have regions of different sizes. Saying biology, which the brain is part of, plays no role is strictly an ideological argument. Note the last URL in my previous reply…this is not “one person’s opinion on women” But as your cite was not specific on what features make women unable to perform in “sports”, how about you make an argument and provide claims vs providing an ambiguous argument that you will just hand wave away. Especially if you claim that Olympians need to be on the top or the bottom of the bell curve mentally, you need to target some function that can actually be discussed besides “but there may be something so WIN” type argument. To quote your cite: > [@](#): > > Some argue that we may safely ignore them. So provide an argument that shows that we cannot ignore them!! Also explain why the opaque generalized and non-specific claims you have made are any different than these quotes from the last link in my last post. > [@](#): > > “Jumps of this length are very good, even for men. It is understandable that ski jumping is performed very rarely by women, and taking a close look, not really a recommendable sport. One prefers to see women with nicely mellifluous movements, which show elegance and grace, like in ice skating or lawn tennis…and it is not enjoyable or aesthetic to see how a representative of the fair sex falls when jumping from a hill, flips over and with mussed-up hair glides down towards the valley in a snow cloud.” > [@](#): > > “This might be physiologically explained by the different construction of this sex. At this time there is no need or reason to organize jumping competitions for the ladies. Because of this unanswered medical question as to whether ski jumping agrees with the female organism, this would be a very daring experiment and should be strongly advised against.” Note how the second one pretty much exactly lines up with one of the few individuals who was setting the rules that blocked female participation in ski jumping? And it is not too far off from your broadly defined “but there are differences” argument? Sure you are pointing out structures that according to your own cite are primary related to sexual response areas, but unless you can demonstrate that there is a correlation with “sport” even in the general fashion, how is it any different than saying no because we don’t know if the uterus will explode? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/91 "2018-02-14T09:36:35Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Even with less opportunity, and a smaller allowed field the top Women competitors were in the same distance and by total score Maren Lunby would have had the gold. > > [PyeongChang 2018 Ladies’ Normal Hill Individual Results - Olympic ski-jumping](https://www.olympic.org/pyeongchang-2018/results/en/ski-jumping/result-ladies-normal-hill-individual-fnl-0002sj-.htm) > > [PyeongChang 2018 Ladies’ Normal Hill Individual Results - Olympic ski-jumping](https://www.olympic.org/pyeongchang-2018/results/en/ski-jumping/result-ladies-normal-hill-individual-fnl-0002sj-.htm) You can’t make that claim (well you can but it holds no weight). The only way to know is to have men and women compete together on the same day, same hill, starting from the same point, same equipment etc. Personally I’d have no problem with that. Ski-jumping may be one of those very few sports where the greater natural strength and skill of men is balanced by the smaller bodyweight and aerodynamics of women. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/92 "2018-02-14T09:49:56Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You can’t make that claim (well you can but it holds no weight). The only way to know is to have men and women compete together on the same day, same hill, starting from the same point, same equipment etc. Personally I’d have no problem with that. Ski-jumping may be one of those very few sports where the greater natural strength and skill of men is balanced by the smaller bodyweight and aerodynamics of women. Yes, I am not arguing that they must be combined, but staggered starts, or at least the same rules (women still aren’t allowed on the big hill in ski jump as an example) would be a huge starting point. Lindsey Vonn, one of the best women in skiing has been asking for this forever. She want the challange, and to compete even if she isn’t competitive. > **[Lindsey Vonn determined to race against men | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/27/sport/lindsey-vonn-mens-downhill-soelden-world-cup-winter-olympics/index.html)** > > Lindsey Vonn has won it all, but America’s most decorated skier is determined to end her career having fulfilled her ambition of racing against men – even though she admits she would only be “averagely competitive.” In ski jump the gender gap actually gets smaller when the hills get larger, and it is a smaller gap in the first place. But because of that fact it is a good example, where the arguments seem to shift to “uteruses would fall out” type arguments to justify the inequality. But we will never know unless these silly biased rules are changed. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/93 "2018-02-14T09:55:04Z")
> [@g8rguy](#): > > I can’t speak to bridge, but [men dominate high-level chess.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_chess_players) I also can’t speak to _why_ this is true, but it does seem to be true. For example, the [highest-rated female player at the moment](https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=8602980) has an [Elo rating of 2654](https://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=women); this is [good for #96](https://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men) for all active players. It should be noted though that a woman has been within the top 10 players at one point (Judit Polgar). Some people take that as proof however, that women are _not_ as good at chess as men, since she and her sisters were groomed for chess greatness from an early age by their parents, and 8th in the world is as high as they got. IMO, considering _all_ top-level chess players receive tutoring from a young age, and considering to be one of the best in the world there probably is a genetic component and “regression to the mean” to contend with…I think it shows massive potential for women’s ratings to improve. Whether in a hypothetical universe where the same number of men and women play the game seriously and receive equal training, men, women, or neither, gender would win more tournaments is difficult to say. And really: I think it’s at least possible women have some natural _advantage_ at the game, but that advantage is right now trivially swamped by other factors. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/94 "2018-02-14T11:56:09Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > But because of that fact it is a good example, where the arguments seem to shift to “uteruses would fall out” type arguments to justify the inequality. Speaking of uteruses, you are coming off a little hysterical. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/95 "2018-02-14T13:29:07Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > I don’t know at this point if you are open to facts, but in case that last post was too involved. > [W-S-J USA - All About Winter Sports](http://www.wsjusa.com/olympic-inclusion/) Once the relevant international federation recommended that women’s ski jump be added to the Olympics, it was. Granted, it was added for 2014 instead of 2010, but this is an example of the system working. It certainly appears that the bottleneck was the FIS, and not the IOC. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/96 "2018-02-14T14:13:12Z")
I don’t know how one can argue it was the FIS. The timeline is what it is. The FIS didn’t have women in the World Cup until 2011. Was the FIS sexist? Sure. Sexism is a thing, and it’s often so integrated in sport it is impossible to change. As a baseball fan I remain baffled and irritated at the fact that high level women’s competition has to be softball, not baseball, despite the fact that there is no really compelling physiological reason why that should be the case. But sports get into the Olympics how they do. I’m sorry the facts are what they are. That said, I am now baffled as to what rat avatar’s thesis is. Is he saying women are capable of complete sport equity with men (which is insane) or just that there isn’t a cognitive difference (which may be the case but so what?) ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/97 "2018-02-14T15:35:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I don’t know how one can argue it was the FIS. The timeline is what it is. The FIS didn’t have women in the World Cup until 2011. > > Was the FIS sexist? Sure. Sexism is a thing, and it’s often so integrated in sport it is impossible to change. As a baseball fan I remain baffled and irritated at the fact that high level women’s competition has to be softball, not baseball, despite the fact that there is no really compelling physiological reason why that should be the case. But sports get into the Olympics how they do. I’m sorry the facts are what they are. > > That said, I am now baffled as to what rat avatar’s thesis is. Is he saying women are capable of complete sport equity with men (which is insane) or just that there isn’t a cognitive difference (which may be the case but so what?) Do not place another posters theory that women are mentally inferior in sport on me, seriously as a moderator one would think that you could better follow the spirit of the rules for this board. Once again you claim fact while ignoring the facts. Remember that ski jump was one of the original winter sports, and that women STILL don’t have equal access, and that they ONLY have access due to court action against the IOC. I am baffled that you are unwilling to actually address the well documented cites, and still want to pretend that there is some hard separation between the industry groups, industry group Olympics organizations and the OIC. Feel free to ignore the **facts** and come back with yet another ad hominem though. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/98 "2018-02-14T15:37:34Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Once the relevant international federation recommended that women’s ski jump be added to the Olympics, it was. Granted, it was added for 2014 instead of 2010, but this is an example of the system working. It certainly appears that the bottleneck was the FIS, and not the IOC. It was not added despite the FIS recommendation, it was denied. It was a lawsuit in British Columbia, where the Olympics lost a discrimination case that resulted in a **single** event being added, and only on the small hill. > [@](#): > > Feeling as if they had exhausted every avenue, Americans Lindsey Van, Jessica Jerome, and retired jumper Karla Keck, risked their careers and teamed up with 12 women jumpers from five countries to sue the Vancouver Organizing Committee (VANOC) in 2008 for their right to compete in the 2010 Olympic Winter Games. The lawyers for the jumpers, Ross Clark and Jeff Horswill of Davis LLP, took on the case pro bono. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/99 "2018-02-14T15:48:50Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Remember that ski jump was one of the original winter sports, and that women STILL don’t have equal access, and that they ONLY have access due to court action against the IOC. They lost that court action though if you are talking about the BC Court. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719/100 "2018-02-14T15:51:07Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > They lost that court action though if you are talking about the BC Supreme Court… They lost the action to be added to the 2010 games, but won for inclusion in future gains. The part they lost was the remediation, they won the discrimination portion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-segregation-and-the-olympics/808719.md?page=6)