# Gender Studies Major...what's it good for? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 24, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578 "2019-07-24T23:42:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/41 "2019-07-28T04:27:32Z")
IT Work. Seriously. All too many companies require you to have a degree. They don’t care what it is in, as long as you have a degree. I’ve worked with people with degrees in Social Work, Teaching, all sorts of things. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/42 "2019-07-28T04:30:52Z")
> [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > I find it rather ironic that critical thinking seems to be missing in Liberal Students. > > For example…the Male/Female Wage Gap. > > If I was a business owner…and part of the Patriarchy…and wanted to minimize Payroll Expenses, wouldn’t I fire all my overpaid Male employees and hire all Women at a discount? > > _That kind of logic seems to escape liberals students today._ As other posters have noted, you’re the one whose logic and critical thinking are failing you in this example. You’re naively assuming that (a) the desire to minimize payroll costs is overwhelmingly the driver of business owners’ hiring decisions (so they obviously wouldn’t hire any men if they could hire women more cheaply), and (b) business owners would be able to replace their entire male workforce with female employees if they wanted to. The reality of the interconnections between gender and wage trends is in reality a lot more complex than that, but it requires the ability to think about a number of nontrivial and possibly conflicting factors at the same time. Which is one of the things a liberal arts education tends to be good for. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/43 "2019-07-28T08:32:03Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You guys still have tribes? The ones Mano Negra sang to in Tribus de Barcelona, people who dress distinctively and officially listen to specific music while quite often listening to Those Other Guys’ Music where nobody else will notice, or even going to concerts by Those Other Guys’ and not to look for a fight but, you know, to watch the concert. > > In Spain they’ve mostly disappeared. Sometimes I look at a bunch of people passing by, one group listening to lolailo (think Kendji), another to rap, another to the top 40… and they all look like they went to the same prep school. It’s better than going to a concert wearing your only clean clothes (therefore, out of uniform with the rest of the public) and people refusing to talk to you, but it’s also visually boring. I mean, kinda ? Less than when I was growing up, but in some arrondissements the traditional punkachien (punk-with-dog) panhandling for beer and puppy chow in full torn-up regalia is not an unusual sight for example. And they’re still just as young, so it’s not just the old guard surviving on an all-kibble diet either. But I agree that tribes in general are less uniform’d these days. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/44 "2019-07-28T13:27:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > As other posters have noted, you’re the one whose logic and critical thinking are failing you in this example. You’re naively assuming that (a) the desire to minimize payroll costs is overwhelmingly the driver of business owners’ hiring decisions (so they obviously wouldn’t hire any men if they could hire women more cheaply), and (b) business owners would be able to replace their entire male workforce with female employees if they wanted to. > > The reality of the interconnections between gender and wage trends is in reality a lot more complex than that, but it requires the ability to think about a number of nontrivial and possibly conflicting factors at the same time. Which is one of the things a liberal arts education tends to be good for. Wasn’t my logic…Paraphrasing Ben Shapiro in one of his “Destroys Social Justice Warrior” debates. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/45 "2019-07-28T14:09:38Z")
> [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > Wasn’t my logic…Paraphrasing Ben Shapiro in one of his “Destroys Social Justice Warrior” debates. Wait. You sneer at how Liberal Arts majors don’t really have critical reasoning skills and present what you claim as an example. Then, when people try to engage you in a logical debate about the example, you say “that wasn’t my argument, that was someone else’s argument.” So you didn’t arrive at it through critical reasoning (which is fine) and you don’t have or don’t care to exercise the critical reasoning or understanding it takes to defend it? (which is more problematic). If your position is that whatever experiences/education you’ve had has better prepared you with critical reasoning skills than does the typical liberal arts program, I don’t think this is a good approach. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/46 "2019-07-28T18:08:47Z")
Wait, people tear apart the argument and the OP falls back to “Wasn’t MY argument, I was presenting a discredited right wing asshole’s argument as my own”??? :dubious: Or did I completely miss something here? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/47 "2019-07-28T19:21:47Z")
I just realized that Enola Straight was the OP. Seems like the original question was not asked in good faith, since he hasn’t responded to any answers, but is instead just doubling down on it being useless. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/48 "2019-07-28T22:30:42Z")
Right now, I wish I had Ben Shapiro’s debating skills in order to defend the post. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/49 "2019-07-29T02:00:22Z")
> [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > Right now, I wish I had Ben Shapiro’s debating skills in order to defend the post. > ☹ Or the debating skills of your average Gender Studies minor. Or, you know, had used this internet thingy and looked up the standard coursework of a Gender Studies major at a major university and compared it to other liberal arts (specifically social science) majors so that the discussion could come from a place of knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/50 "2019-07-29T02:32:08Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > IT Work. > > Seriously. All too many companies require you to have a degree. They don’t care what it is in, as long as you have a degree. I’ve worked with people with degrees in Social Work, Teaching, all sorts of things. Likewise, we often don’t much care what the degree is in for a junior hire to a “data science” position. If their X studies program included some stats, even better. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/51 "2019-07-29T03:19:13Z")
A large part of a liberal arts education is about learning \*\*\*how \*\*\*to think… not \*\*\*what \*\*\*to think about. In this same way, it’s useful to study Latin. Not because you’re going to be speaking a lot of Latin after you learn it, but because it helps you figure out stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/52 "2019-07-29T03:31:40Z")
> [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > Right now, I wish I had Ben Shapiro’s debating skills in order to defend the post. > ☹ Wishing you had Ben Shapiro’s “debating” skills is like wishing you had Stephen Hawking’ s basketball skills. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/53 "2019-07-29T05:29:11Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I know you are making a joke about a song, but do you believe that? Well, let’s put it this way… I generally believe a degree, any degree, will give you an edge in getting a job. Many people have jobs that have little or nothing to do with their degree. I’m one of them. Gender studies though? I not so sure about that one. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/54 "2019-07-29T06:18:06Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Well, let’s put it this way… I generally believe a degree, any degree, will give you an edge in getting a job. […] Gender studies though? I not so sure about that one. It’s true that a lot of people think of the field of “gender studies” as just a contemptible punchline, which naturally would hamper its usefulness on a resume. But it’s not clear how many of those people have any substantive knowledge or critique of the field to back up their low opinion of it, as opposed to merely having absorbed ubiquitous ignorant right-wing sexist rhetoric to the effect that anything about that gender stuff must all be just dumb bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/55 "2019-07-29T17:50:55Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s true that a lot of people think of the field of “gender studies” as just a contemptible punchline, which naturally would hamper its usefulness on a resume. > > But it’s not clear how many of those people have any substantive knowledge or critique of the field to back up their low opinion of it, as opposed to merely having absorbed ubiquitous ignorant right-wing sexist rhetoric to the effect that anything about that gender stuff must all be just dumb bullshit. Probably because the average person would have a hard time imagining even peripheral benefit to it. Let’s say I go in for a role for a coder. I have a interpersonal communications degree. Being a good communicator is generally applicable to any job. Let’s say I’m an English major, I’ll probably produce good documentation. I’m a gender studies major. I’ll… what? What is the average person think I’m going to bring to the table there? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/56 "2019-07-29T17:56:30Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Wishing you had Ben Shapiro’s “debating” skills is like wishing you had Stephen Hawking’ s basketball skills. No kidding. Remember, Shap’s the guy who solved flooding in coastal regions by suggesting the beflooded could just sell their houses and move. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/57 "2019-07-29T18:19:14Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Well, let’s put it this way… I generally believe a degree, any degree, will give you an edge in getting a job. Many people have jobs that have little or nothing to do with their degree. I’m one of them. Gender studies though? I not so sure about that one. Well, have any of the extensive responses in this thread changed your mind? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/58 "2019-07-29T23:34:33Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Probably because the average person would have a hard time imagining even peripheral benefit to it. Let’s say I go in for a role for a coder. I have a interpersonal communications degree. Being a good communicator is generally applicable to any job. Let’s say I’m an English major, I’ll probably produce good documentation. I’m a gender studies major. I’ll… what? What is the average person think I’m going to bring to the table there? I thought the idea was, _any_ such degree is primarily there to signal, hey, this person spent years showing up on time and taking notes in class, and typing up increasingly well-written term papers until it was time to bang out a senior thesis; and doing that as an English major just means you’re probably more likely to make literary allusions. History major? Probably more likely to be, uh, a trivia buff, say. Classics? Philosophy? Gender Studies? Mere details; the important part is starting with Something 101, and working one’s way up to You Earned A Diploma, such that you can now be tasked with Go Look Into This And Write A Paper On The Subject Du Jour. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/59 "2019-07-29T23:52:47Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Let’s say I go in for a role for a coder. I have a interpersonal communications degree. Being a good communicator is generally applicable to any job. Let’s say I’m an English major, I’ll probably produce good documentation. I’m a gender studies major. I’ll… what? What is the average person think I’m going to bring to the table there? 😕 You’re saying that a gender studies major is useless because it may be less relevant **specifically to getting a job as a coder**? Do you think that everybody needs to aspire to getting a job as a coder? Are you aware that there are lots of other jobs that require skillsets somewhat different from those required for a coder? Anyway, as has been noted, any liberal arts degree (if done right) is supposed to testify to the possessor’s abilities to think critically about issues from different perspectives, to learn, organize and integrate new specialized information, and to communicate complicated ideas clearly at both technical and general levels. Obviously all these abilities are useful for coders as well as for people doing other jobs. But AFAICT what gender studies majors find their degree is primarily good for, career-wise, is in doing jobs that combine their general liberal-arts skillset with issues that relate specifically to gender. Given that gender is a pretty prominent issue in very many aspects of human society, there are quite a lot of such jobs. As [this site](https://wgs.tcnj.edu/for-students/careers-and-graduate-school/what-you-can-do-with-a-wgs-major/) explains, > [@](#): > > Corporations need employees who understand gendered issues in the workplace–issues such as sexual harassment, flex-time, parental leave, pay equity, and equal employment opportunities. The demand for expertise on gender issues is growing in the professions of law, health care, social work, teaching, counseling, and government service. Specialists in gender and sexuality are sought out as consultants in education and industry. And women’s agencies and organizations are adding to the demand for graduates in the field as they take on ever more critical roles, both internationally and within local communities. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578/60 "2019-07-30T00:15:31Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Probably because the average person would have a hard time imagining even peripheral benefit to it. Let’s say I go in for a role for a coder. I have a interpersonal communications degree. Being a good communicator is generally applicable to any job. Let’s say I’m an English major, I’ll probably produce good documentation. I’m a gender studies major. I’ll… what? What is the average person think I’m going to bring to the table there? Are you self-identifying as average? Because you obviously can’t imagine any benefit to it. It seems your position is that “any degree is useless if the average person doesn’t understand its value.” By that measure, there are doubtless several disciplines that are “useless.” But the people doing the hiring (the ones that make a degree “useful,”) certainly understand the value of a degree in gender studies. I know my previous post was long, but I think it was pretty cogent and specific in explaining the value that gender specialists bring to the table in the field of international development. Do you have a counter response, or can you concede that there just might be situations, even if they are outside your personal experience, where a gender specialist is a sought-after commodity? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-studies-major-whats-it-good-for/837578.md?page=4)