# GenderqueerID: are these terms really used by (in some cases) by more than just a few people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 14, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297 "2014-02-14T02:25:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/61 "2014-02-18T16:16:50Z")
> [@](#): > > One of my old friends was a gay man in a woman’s body What’s the difference between this and a straight woman? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/62 "2014-02-18T16:54:41Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Sorry, mate. But the definition of a pejorative isn’t ‘word DrDeth doesn’t like for some reason’, it’s based on actual usage of the word, and in actual usage of the word, it’s no more a slur than ‘man’, ‘American’, ‘woman’ and so forth are. > . Actually, it is. Look, the person using the term doesn’t get to decide whether his term is insulting or pejorative, only be person to whom the term is being applied to can make that decision. If you read the wiki page, you can see the endless edit wars on it, and a whole page in the history > **[Talk:Cisgender](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cisgender#Possible_Interpretation_as_a_Slur)** > > Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. > This is an extended justification for Special:Diff/1224910480. > Mathglot, citing Talk:Cisgender/Archive\_7#Critiques argues that "consensus so far has been against including this". The same ... Where many many, consider it a slur. "Clearly, this term is considered a derogatory term or a slur by many cis / non-trans (I only use that term to make sure that I am understood) individuals. A section is needed to let the reader know that this is the case. I don’t think this should be controversial. Anyone who is even remotely familiar with the use of the term knows this to be a major issue with the use of the term… I’d agree that it is insulting, and limiting…Cisgender is not used by anyone outside the transgender community, by anyone who is not transgender, save for what might be a handful of gender studies graduate students in an ivory tower or two. The neutrality of this article needs to be seriously addressed, or the article must be considered for deletion, for supporting and validating what equates to nothing less than hate speech. In practice, a natrual born “man” or natural born “woman, indeed any human being, would never even hear the word cisgender or the Latin prefix “cis” in reference to gender identity anywhere outside of 1, the internet, 2, various online and social media fora such as twitter, where “cis”, and especially “cisphobe” and “cisphobic” are commonly used by transgender people in rants about, essentially, hating privilege of 1, natural born heterosexual women, 2, natural born heterosexual men, 3, members of the “mainstream” gay community, and 4, basically any outsider who even asks what the word “cis” means and why they are using it. Since “cisgender” is not in dictionaries, and because Wikipedia is not a dictionary, this neologism ought to be described as a hateful hate speech charged slur that it is.” “cis” is a recently made up word with little use, other than in lists like this and as a way to insult people. Yes, certainly "cis’ is not on a level with "Nigger’ but it is quite a bit like “negro”. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/63 "2014-02-18T17:06:47Z")
The people who claim “cis” to be a slur are transphobes and bigots who are often nasty, harassing, and violent. We don’t describe “homophobe”, “racist”, “bigoted”, etc, as slurs, and those are actual value-negative. “Cis” is value-neutral, and the people who claim it’s a slur have been pushing that they deserve to be called “normal” - because anybody who isn’t like them is a freak in their eyes. Just because some random bigot on wikipedia has posted blatantly false information (the word “cisgender” has been around a LOT longer than he claims) doesn’t mean it’s true. Unless we’re going to start doing things like citing the KKK and Nazis are reliable sources now. The bit you quoted is literally outright, factually false, in multiple ways. Posting a factually false quote from a wikipedia talk page to back up an opinion is a pretty low standard for GQ. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/64 "2014-02-18T17:30:35Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > The people who claim “cis” to be a slur are transphobes and bigots who are often nasty, harassing, and violent. > > We don’t describe “homophobe”, “racist”, “bigoted”, etc, as slurs, and those are actual value-negative. “Cis” is value-neutral, and the people who claim it’s a slur have been pushing that they deserve to be called “normal” - because anybody who isn’t like them is a freak in their eyes. Just because some random bigot on wikipedia has posted blatantly false information (the word “cisgender” has been around a LOT longer than he claims) doesn’t mean it’s true. Unless we’re going to start doing things like citing the KKK and Nazis are reliable sources now. > > The bit you quoted is literally outright, factually false, in multiple ways. Posting a factually false quote from a wikipedia talk page to back up an opinion is a pretty low standard for GQ. To be fair to DrDeth - though ‘cis’ is value-neutral by denotation, in many circles it is used with a negative connotation. Like some circles use ‘breeders’ to describe straight people, with contempt. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/65 "2014-02-18T17:38:29Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > To be fair to DrDeth - though ‘cis’ is value-neutral by denotation, in many circles it is used with a negative connotation. Like some circles use ‘breeders’ to describe straight people, with contempt. By that definition, “Christian” is a slur, and nobody should ever identify as it. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/66 "2014-02-18T18:47:02Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > What’s the difference between this and a straight woman? 😕 They want their physical gender to be male but they are attracted to other males, as opposed to a straight woman, who wants her gender to be female but is attracted to males. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/67 "2014-02-18T21:14:44Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > The people who claim “cis” to be a slur are transphobes and bigots who are often nasty, harassing, and violent. > > . Here, you are then calling me a nasty, harassing, and violent transphobe and bigot, just because I object to a slur being used against my gender choice? Think about this. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/68 "2014-02-18T21:16:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, certainly "cis’ is not on a level with "Nigger’ but it is quite a bit like “negro”. Stop trying to make fetch happen. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/69 "2014-02-18T21:17:50Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > To be fair to DrDeth - though ‘cis’ is value-neutral by denotation, in many circles it is used with a negative connotation. Like some circles use ‘breeders’ to describe straight people, with contempt. I don’t really see why we should. He’s demonstrated multiple times that he’s not interested in anything but claiming persecution when it comes to this topic. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/70 "2014-02-18T21:48:56Z")
Certainly “more than a few people” use the full range of terms within city populations, younger populations, more liberal populations. I have two questions about it, one following upon the other: 1. Once there are that many categories, aren’t the practical reasons for identifying gender irrelevant? 2. Hmm… how often were the purported practical reasons for identifying gender as M or F really relevant? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/71 "2014-02-18T21:53:22Z")
**Moderator Note** This thread is straying a bit too far outside of the scope of GQ. Since there appears to still be some factual questions to be answered I am going to leave this open, but let’s drop the debate and argumentative parts of this topic and focus only on the factual aspects of it. Those who wish to discuss other aspects of this topic are free to open a thread in the appropriate forum (GD, Pit, etc). ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/72 "2014-02-19T03:10:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > We’re getting way out of GQ territory here, but I think you seem to be mixing up diversity of nomenclature with political fragmentation. My friend, I’m from Chicago. EVERYTHING is politics to me! It’s our favorite spectator and participant sport. But I will abide by the mod’s decision. ---
**Author:** ![buddy431](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy431](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy431)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/73 "2014-02-19T04:56:26Z")
As a chemist, I always do a little double take when I see “cis” used in the context of gender identity. How long has that been a thing? But while we’re at it, I think you should start borrowing other nomenclature from chemists\*. If there’s one thing we’re good at, it’s systematizing nomenclature. We’ve found that “cis” and “trans” are not sufficient to describe all situations where they might be applicable, so we invented [E-Z\_notation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Z_notation). For chirality, we originally used (+) and (-), but then invented [R/S](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirality_(chemistry)#By_configuration:_R-_and_S-) to be more specific. Of course, that breaks down in octahedral complexes, so [Lambda-Delta formalism](http://wwwchem.uwimona.edu.jm/courses/IC10Kiso.html) was created. I joke a little bit, but with the proliferation of gender identities, it seems like a little organization wouldn’t hurt. \*I realize that chemists do not have a monopoly on the Latin words for “on the same side” and “on the other side”, but the chemical sense is still the most widely used, judging by Google search results. ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/74 "2014-02-19T08:43:02Z")
> [@buddy431](#): > > As a chemist, I always do a little double take when I see “cis” used in the context of gender identity. How long has that been a thing? From the top of my head, mid-90’s. Wikipedia gives a few sources: > **[Cisgender](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender#Internet_use)** > > The word cisgender (often shortened to cis; sometimes cissexual) describes a person whose gender identity corresponds to their sex assigned at birth, i.e., someone who is not transgender. The prefix cis- is Latin and means on this side of. The term cisgender was coined in 1994 as an antonym to transgender, and entered into dictionaries starting in 2015 as a result of changes in social discourse about gender. The term has been and continues to be controversial and subject to critiqu Related ... I began to saw it commonly used in internet trans communities the mid 2000’s though. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/75 "2014-02-19T14:45:34Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > By that definition, “Christian” is a slur, and nobody should ever identify as it. You’ve leaped past the logical analogy into the unrelated absurd. I didn’t see him saying that \*\*nobody \*\*should identify as cisgender, only that \*\*he \*\*didn’t wish to be identified as such. I can very easily imagine an analogous person who follows the teachings of Christ who does not want to be called Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297/76 "2014-02-19T17:39:42Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > You’ve leaped past the logical analogy into the unrelated absurd. I didn’t see him saying that \*\*nobody \*\*should identify as cisgender, only that \*\*he \*\*didn’t wish to be identified as such. I can very easily imagine an analogous person who follows the teachings of Christ who does not want to be called Christian. Post 37. I will not continue this hijack, I just wanted to defend myself. > [@buddy431](#): > > As a chemist, I always do a little double take when I see “cis” used in the context of gender identity. How long has that been a thing? I remember the week after one of my trans friends came out to me was my first introduction to double-bond nomenclature in O Chem. I had wondered, basically as a joke, if anyone used “cis” to describe people too. It seemed logical enough at the time. Little did I know… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genderqueerid-are-these-terms-really-used-by-in-some-cases-by-more-than-just-a-few-people/681297.md?page=3)