# General aviation folk: talk me down... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666 "2014-01-13T16:07:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/81 "2014-01-20T16:12:32Z")
Posting this as another comparison between the price of a flying airplane, and whatever the price of the airplane the OP’s husband is considering is. [1960 Piper Tri-Pacer on eBay](http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-Piper-Tri-Pacer-/221357883498?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3389f5406a&item=221357883498&pt=Motors_Aircraft). The bidding starts at $14,000. No bids yet, and there’s a reserve. It does have the sealed struts. > [@](#): > > 1960 Piper Tri Pacer 150 HP, TTSN 2380, SMOH 554, TSPOH 60 (9/20/08), INTERIOR NEW IN 1996, WINDOWS NEW IN 1996, FABRIC IS IN EXCELLENT CONDITION (1996), SEALED STRUTS IN 1996, GARMIN 296,RADIO - ICOM IC-A210, TRANSPONDER - BENDIX/KING KT 76C, bungees 1999. > > This plane is in excellent shape. The fabric is perfect and the interior is in great shape except for a headliner, it needs one. The rest of the interior is very nice. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/82 "2014-01-20T16:22:02Z")
Only 60 hours since 2008? Get a thorough inspection before you even bid. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/83 "2014-01-20T18:06:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Being familiar with them doesn’t always mean \*using \*them afterward. Run-up checks do take a little time, and it’s tempting not to bother if everything worked on the last flight. But still means knowing it. So pointing out such obvious things would be mere scolding rather than revealing something to the person. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Even doing the steps by rote instead of understanding their purpose is hazardous, since it lets you miss problems right under your nose. If you read the rest of my post you will learn what actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/84 "2014-01-20T21:48:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s funny. Just yesterday I flew an airplane for the first time in my life, a 1976 Cessna 172. I asked the instructor/company co-owner how much it cost to maintain the airplane, and to be honest it was a lower number than I expected; he figured $5000 a year (on average) but this company’s aircraft are working aircraft that get a lot of use. $5000 doesn’t strike me as being an especially high sum to maintain a working airplane that’s in the air almost every day the weather is good. $5,000 a year is a reasonable amount a person can be paying a year to maintain a private plane that isn’t for commercial use, and limits his flying to say, 70 or so hours a year. That includes fuel, insurance, and hangar costs, along with annual inspections, and hopefully no serious equipment failures. For commercial use, insurance goes up considerably. If I heard my friend right, he paid out $15,000 last year for insurance on his old Cessna 172 that he rents out by the hour to the general public. Fuel costs alone run about $40.00 an hour figuring 8 gph fuel burn, and at $5.00 a gallon for 100LL which would be cheap to get it at that around most places in the country. Some go with mogas and saves them quite a bit. I was doing that with mine on one tank until they started putting ethanol blends in it. Some still burn that too, but you have to check your equipment to make sure it doesn’t ruin certain fuel rings and hoses, like in your tank, mechanical and electrical fuel pumps, carb, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/85 "2014-01-20T21:51:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Posting this as another comparison between the price of a flying airplane, and whatever the price of the airplane the OP’s husband is considering is. > > [1960 Piper Tri-Pacer on eBay](http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-Piper-Tri-Pacer-/221357883498?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3389f5406a&item=221357883498&pt=Motors_Aircraft). The bidding starts at $14,000. No bids yet, and there’s a reserve. It does have the sealed struts. It does look nice. There will be plenty of sniping bids come in at the last minute, I’m sure. I don’t think he mentions compression, I’d want to take a good look at those numbers. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/86 "2014-01-21T14:44:16Z")
I sent my husband a link to this thread. He’s not a message board kind of person and doesn’t (yet?) have an account here, but I thought he’d be interested in a lot of what’s been said, especially the technical jargon that I can’t translate. Oh, and the deposit has been paid on the plane 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/87 "2014-02-16T16:32:15Z")
So… How goes the purchase? ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/88 "2014-03-31T22:52:56Z")
Well! I’m now officially married to a General Aviation Pilot (AVM, I think is the term). He passed his flight test today, got the oral done 2 weeks ago. The plane has been bought and is with the mechanic getting a new prop, struts, and general overhaul. I _am_ actually pleased for him. A bit terrified, but pleased. He started this less than a year ago and has busted his butt to get all the training and jump through all the required hoops. Among other things, when he’s happy he’s a whole lot easier to live with! 🆒 Oh! [This is the actual plane](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3sA7zfcx8c) with a previous owner in it. It’s kinda cute, for a plane 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/89 "2014-04-01T01:03:08Z")
> [@saje](#): > > Well! I’m now officially married to a General Aviation Pilot (AVM, I think is the term). He passed his flight test today, got the oral done 2 weeks ago. The plane has been bought and is with the mechanic getting a new prop, struts, and general overhaul. > > I _am_ actually pleased for him. A bit terrified, but pleased. He started this less than a year ago and has busted his butt to get all the training and jump through all the required hoops. Among other things, when he’s happy he’s a whole lot easier to live with! 🆒 > > Oh! [This is the actual plane](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3sA7zfcx8c) with a previous owner in it. It’s kinda cute, for a plane 😛 Cool! I hope it all goes well for both of you. > [@usedtobe](#): > > You weren’t taught to test the mags during run-up? > > Set engine to 2300 rpm, toggle mag switch - L, R, both. Observe power output. If it does not change between “both mags” and “one mag”, you have a dead mag. > > And: > Do we know that the pilot of the plane was the owner? Not quite. You should already have checked for a dead mag before you did your runup because going to one mag and having the engine quit then going back to a working mag at relatively high power will make a humongous “BANG” as a bunch of unburnt fuel gets ignited in the cylinders. During the run-up you’re just checking the RPM drop on the mags that you already know are basically functional. Also if you have no RPM change between “BOTH” and one mag then you actually have a live mag, one that isn’t being turned off correctly by the switch. After start you check for a dead mag by going BOTH L R BOTH at idle power. If you have a dead mag you won’t risk blowing up the engine doing this. During the run-up you check the power from each mag. Then finally just prior to engine shutdown you check for a live mag by going to OFF briefly and checking the engine cuts out. You then shut the engine down in the normal manner–using the mixture control (if it has one.) The acceptable mag drop depends on the engine and the flight manual will state what it is. It is also performed at different RPMs on different engines. All a mag check does is prove the function of the mags at the time you do the check. It gives no guarantees against failure after the check. I once had a mag failure during takeoff in an Aero Commander. It worked fine during the run-ups but failed a couple of minutes later resulting in me aborting the takeoff. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/90 "2014-04-01T02:44:21Z")
> [@saje](#): > > Oh! [This is the actual plane](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3sA7zfcx8c) with a previous owner in it. It’s kinda cute, for a plane 😛 I’ve always thought they looked like flying milk stools. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/91 "2014-04-01T03:13:18Z")
So are aviation threads now like cat threads? No pics or it didn’t happen? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/92 "2014-06-13T15:03:51Z")
> [@saje](#): > > The plane has been bought and is with the mechanic getting a new prop, struts, and general overhaul. So how’s the flying going? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/93 "2014-06-13T15:49:18Z")
His plane still isn’t in the air, much to his dismay. There have been the inevitable setbacks - mech’s illness plus things were found that at first glance looked ok, but with closer inspection really weren’t. The biggest one of those was with a wing - AFTER the damn thing was put on, and painted, they found that someone in years past had drilled through one of the internal supports to the point that the strength was totally compromised. Ugh. “New” wing found and purchased, road trip from SC to OH to TN to get it and deliver it. But he’s still flying rentals any chance he gets, and he got one of those simulator program doohickeys to play with when he can’t get in the air for real. I’m trying hard not to add up the bills and just be happy that he’s so happy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/94 "2014-06-13T16:58:15Z")
> [@saje](#): > > I’m trying hard not to add up the bills and just be happy that he’s so happy 🙂 Yeah, my pipe dream is to buy dad’s airplane and have it restored. Last time I saw it, it wasn’t airworthy, and the owner never answered my letters. Assuming he’s got it flying in the last dozen years, it might cost $30,000 or so. New paint would be over $10,000 I’m sure, plus upholstery, plus interior plastic, plus wingtips and stab tips. New plexiglass is probably in order. It would be nice to swap out the 150 hp engine for a zero-time 180 hp one… It would probably cost $80,000 or more, and I’d wind up with a $50,000 or maybe $60,000 airplane. As it happens, there’s a school in this state that has an already-restored C172K. It would make more sense to buy that one. (Of course if I had what I would consider a sufficient surplus spondlix to buy it, it wouldn’t matter.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/95 "2014-06-13T17:07:01Z")
The G-IV crash we’ve been discussing? [They left the frickin’ gust locks on.](http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2014/06/13/ntsb-confirms-hanscom-crash-came-after-rejected-takeoff/igIl1qI4OgHIrouLDrcm4K/story.html?p1=Topopage:Carousel_lead_headline) Damn. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/96 "2014-06-13T17:18:51Z")
Did you mean to post in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=628790)? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/97 "2014-06-13T17:47:57Z")
Yeah, sorry. But we’re all the same people here anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/98 "2014-06-13T17:53:25Z")
Are the gust locks in a G-IV controlled from the cockpit? Are they like the yoke lock on a small plane? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/99 "2014-06-13T18:07:03Z")
[A handle in the cockpit](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&ved=0CG4QFjAN&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smartcockpit.com%2Fdownload.php%3Fpath%3Ddocs%2F%26file%3DGulfstream_GIV-Flight_Controls.pdf&ei=vjybU-yDBeGr8gGQqoGoAw&usg=AFQjCNFOvd-YTDWs0AwfcThfdVphdbL-5A&sig2=MmAeS_Y3fYGTv0st2FCHdA), on a side wall, not the yoke. ---
**Author:** ![HipGnosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/76d3ee/32.png) [@HipGnosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HipGnosis)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666/100 "2014-06-13T20:08:11Z")
Your fear is irrational. It’s like him asking you to quit riding because a horse you bought had thrown a shoe when a previous owner rode it in an irresponsible way. Totally irrational. You really need to consider therapy kinda irrational. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-aviation-folk-talk-me-down/678666.md?page=6)