# General counsel for Hillary's campaign announces that the campaign will participate in recounts. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 26, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068 "2016-11-26T18:19:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/41 "2016-11-29T15:35:05Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Nothing was said that we shouldn’t investigate possible irregularities. But every result is a possible irregularity, right? ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/42 "2016-11-29T15:46:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > To be fair, their position is completely consistent - no election is valid if a Democrat loses. > > Regards, > Shodan The reality is that Democrats have consistently been responsible. The Clinton campaign didn’t ask for this recount and when they decided to participate, they issued a careful statement that noted that they considered it unlikely that the results would change. On the other hand, Trump has been utterly irresponsible. He won but is still making completely unsupported claims of massive voter fraud, undermining confidence in the system for no good reason. You are just trying to hide the fact that there are people who are behaving like mature adults and people who are behaving like little children…and the latter just happens to be the President elect. The fact that there has been a deafening silence among the Republicans when Trump behaves in this way is very frightening. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/43 "2016-11-29T16:26:11Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > The reality is that Democrats have consistently been responsible. The Clinton campaign didn’t ask for this recount and when they decided to participate, they issued a careful statement that noted that they considered it unlikely that the results would change. This is actually a good opportunity for Hillary to latch onto Stein’s sore loser-dom without being directly responsible for the tantrum. > [@](#): > > You are just trying to hide the fact that there are people who are behaving like mature adults and people who are behaving like little children… Oh yes - the Elections forum has been neck-deep in Democrats behaving like mature adults. And recounts that will achieve nothing, establish nothing, and change nothing, are certainly examples of that. And since you claim that Democrats have been consistently responsible, no doubt you can cite all the times they won an election and spent just as much time and money pushing for recounts. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/44 "2016-11-29T16:31:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > . > > And since you claim that Democrats have been consistently responsible, no doubt you can cite all the times they won an election and spent just as much time and money pushing for recounts. > > Regards, > Shodan The Democrats, as a party, have not spent money on this recount. Except if you count the money they’ll spend on observers which will most certainly be matched by Republican observers. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/45 "2016-11-29T16:41:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is actually a good opportunity for Hillary to latch onto Stein’s sore loser-dom without being directly responsible for the tantrum.Oh yes - the Elections forum has been neck-deep in Democrats behaving like mature adults. And recounts that will achieve nothing, establish nothing, and change nothing, are certainly examples of that. > > And since you claim that Democrats have been consistently responsible, no doubt you can cite all the times they won an election and spent just as much time and money pushing for recounts. > > Regards, > Shodan Do you have any examples of Democrats winning an election and complaining about Republican recounts? If you want an example of a sore loser, I recommend you look at the current NC governor. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/46 "2016-11-29T17:37:23Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > [raises hand]Excuse me, but why would you assume that, given the 2 MILLION vote disparity between the popular vote and the electoral college count, that “liberals” immediately assume the vote was “rigged”? :dubious: Because Hillary isn’t President, whereas all the polls said she would be (and we all know polls are infallible). Plus, and probably more substantially, they’ve said as much-- just look at the comments on places such as HuffPo or on the official Clinton Twitter/Facebook, or even just turn on MSNBC/CNN as they’re still comlaining about “Russian influence” and/or how Trump knows something is fishy with the vote tally. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/47 "2016-11-29T17:45:32Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Do you have any examples of Democrats winning an election and complaining about Republican recounts? You cited one yourself. Marc Elias is Hillary Clinton’s lawyer, or one of them, and he is demanding that the GOP stop calling for a recount in a much closer election. [Cite](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/while-presidential-recount-continues-clinton-lawyer-wants-gop-to-stop-north-carolina-recount/article/2608296). If Democrats were consistent, they would want more data and to learn as much as they could about the election. Especially when 90,000 early votes suddenly appear on Election Night, and the margin of victory is less than 10,000. Instead, you refer to McCrory as a sore loser. Because, after all, a Democrat won. Probably. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/48 "2016-11-29T17:58:12Z")
Human being revealed as hypocrite. Film at eleven. (And seriously, **Shodan** …the _Washington Examiner_? \* Infowars\* and\* Breitbart\* too busy elsewhere?) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/49 "2016-11-29T18:00:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You cited one yourself. > > Marc Elias is Hillary Clinton’s lawyer, or one of them, and he is demanding that the GOP stop calling for a recount in a much closer election. [Cite](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/while-presidential-recount-continues-clinton-lawyer-wants-gop-to-stop-north-carolina-recount/article/2608296). If Democrats were consistent, they would want more data and to learn as much as they could about the election. Especially when 90,000 early votes suddenly appear on Election Night, and the margin of victory is less than 10,000. > > Instead, you refer to McCrory as a sore loser. Because, after all, a Democrat won. Probably. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t care if they recount the NC governor’s race. But here’s a key difference- Hillary conceded, McCrory did not and probably never will. He may instead ask the NC legislature to void the election and declare him the winner. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/50 "2016-11-29T18:09:16Z")
Seems that going forward, the door could be opened for “nuisance” recounts. Conservative candidates asking for recounts in California and New York, or liberal candidates asking for recounts in Texas and Alabama. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/51 "2016-11-29T18:26:14Z")
\*We’ve been around for 240 years. We’ve had free and fair elections. We’ve accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them, and that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election. - Hillary Clinton\* I’m not opposed to a recount if they (Hillary and Stein) want to raise the funds to pay for it. But the hypocrisy is even more of a turn off than when Donald was up front about it saying he’d keep us in suspense. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/52 "2016-11-29T18:34:07Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Seems that going forward, the door could be opened for “nuisance” recounts. Conservative candidates asking for recounts in California and New York, or liberal candidates asking for recounts in Texas and Alabama. I doubt it opens any door as it stands right now. Most states already have difficult financial/legal hurdles to force a recount on a not close election. That’s the most you can reasonably suggest in an open democracy. Maybe if Pennsylvania allows an extension of deadlines for no good reason then you might see a door opening on frivolous recount demands. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/53 "2016-11-29T18:37:55Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > \*We’ve been around for 240 years. We’ve had free and fair elections. We’ve accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them, and that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election. > > - Hillary Clinton\* > > I’m not opposed to a recount if they (Hillary and Stein) want to raise the funds to pay for it. But the hypocrisy is even more of a turn off than when Donald was up front about it saying he’d keep us in suspense. I understand it’s fun to poke the “liberals” but could we stop bullshitting? You know perfectly well Hillary is not raising funds for the recount. So maybe, stop saying that? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/54 "2016-11-29T18:59:25Z")
I’m amused personally by how upset this is making Trump and some of his supporters. Cite: Trump’s tweets, this thread. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/55 "2016-11-29T19:04:40Z")
That I don’t understand. Nobody suggests that the final outcome will change, but recounting the votes is seen as undermining the election and not accepting the results. Yet TinyHands said he will only accept the results if he wins, and touts complete rubbish about how he actually won the popular vote. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/56 "2016-11-29T20:11:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is actually a good opportunity for Hillary to latch onto Stein’s sore loser-dom without being directly responsible for the tantrum. Let me help you so maybe over time you can learn (all by yourself, like a Big Boy!!!) how to identify mature adult statements from infantile tantrums. Here is an example of a mature adult statement: > [@](#): > > Because we had not uncovered any actionable evidence of hacking or outside attempts to alter the voting technology, we had not planned to exercise this option ourselves, but now that a recount has been initiated in Wisconsin, we intend to participate in order to ensure the process proceeds in a manner that is fair to all sides. If Jill Stein follows through as she has promised and pursues recounts in Pennsylvania and Michigan, we will take the same approach in those states as well. We do so fully aware that the number of votes separating Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in the closest of these states — Michigan — well exceeds the largest margin ever overcome in a recount. But regardless of the potential to change the outcome in any of the states, we feel it is important, on principle, to ensure our campaign is legally represented in any court proceedings and represented on the ground in order to monitor the recount process itself. (Complete statement here: [Listening and Responding To Calls for an Audit and Recount | by Marc Erik Elias | Medium](https://medium.com/@marceelias/listening-and-responding-to-calls-for-an-audit-and-recount-2a904717ea39#.3uevlkje6)) Here is an example of an infantile tantrum: > [@](#): > > In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally Here’s a few ways that you can spot the differences: - The mature adult statement carefully assesses the situation. It explains the reasoning for participating in the recounts that the party did not ask for, does not resort to conspiracy theories (even though we have good evidence that a foreign power was trying to influence the election in a particular direction), notes the lack of “actionable evidence” of tampering that they have been able to find, and is careful to note that the outcome is unlikely to change. - The infantile tantrum makes broad sweeping claims of fraud with no evidence whatsoever to back them up. It claims that this fraud changed the outcome with no evidence whatsoever to back this up. It undermines confidence in the election and sets the stage for this person to really do destructive things in the future when he actually loses the election (i.e., the electoral vote). I’m not sure what exactly is so difficult to understand about this. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/57 "2016-11-29T20:18:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Jill Stein is buying, and I’m of the opinion that there is never enough data. It doesn’t appear that the Green Party can afford to foot the bill for one recount, let alone three. Fortunately, they’ve found enough, uhm…, let’s call them “concerned citizens” who were willing to donate to the cause. Stein appeared on CNN (or maybe FOX, or both?) this morning and said they had received some 140,000 donations and the average donation was approximately $45. The on-air personality said the total was over $6 million. I’m in favor of investigations. If these recounts send a message to all political parties that even landslides could be recounted, I’m all for it. Mmmm… data. -Homer Simpson ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/58 "2016-11-29T20:23:54Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I understand it’s fun to poke the “liberals” but could we stop bullshitting? You know perfectly well Hillary is not raising funds for the recount. So maybe, stop saying that? AFAIK, they have not released a list of Green Party recount contributors. How do you know perfectly well that Team Hillary hasn’t donated to the Green Party fund? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/59 "2016-11-29T20:26:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’m in favor of investigations. If these recounts send a message to all political parties that even landslides could be recounted, I’m all for it. > > Mmmm… data. > -Homer Simpson Why would this mean anything about “even landslides could be recounted”? Firstly, the MI, WI and PA results weren’t landslides. Secondly, the options being used now were always available for any type of result. You always seem to make such silly uninformed comments. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/60 "2016-11-29T20:28:24Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Let me help you so maybe over time you can learn (all by yourself, like a Big Boy!!!) how to identify mature adult statements from infantile tantrums. Here is an example of a mature adult statement: This is bordering on personal insults. Please avoid this in the future. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068.md?page=4)