# General counsel for Hillary's campaign announces that the campaign will participate in recounts. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 26, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068 "2016-11-26T18:19:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/81 "2016-11-29T23:24:46Z")
Time will tell. Wind will blow. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/82 "2016-11-30T01:01:24Z")
Why would Clinton pay for this recount? It’s an obvious scam. She’s crooked, not stupid. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/83 "2016-11-30T01:06:09Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I shall repeat the oft-forgotten concept: There is no such thing as the popular vote. It is meaningless in the voting system used in the US. You say that as if you think the ones employing that argument are unaware it’s a dishonest tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/84 "2016-11-30T01:18:34Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You say that as if you think the ones employing that argument are unaware it’s a dishonest tactic. What, if anything, is dishonest about seeking a recount and paying for it, in accordance with existing laws set up for exactly that purpose? And if you were referring to something else, what was it? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/85 "2016-11-30T01:45:09Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > Why would Clinton pay for this recount? It’s an obvious scam. She’s crooked, not stupid. Um, okay, how does the scam work? How does she get more money by pissing it away? ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/86 "2016-11-30T02:15:48Z")
It’s pretty obvious at this point the Stein was just trying to extract money from dupes, for her own purposes. (Which don’t include an actual recount.) She’s already missed the deadline for the Pennsylvania recount. > > > Mediaite @Mediaite > **[Pennsylvania State Department says Stein missed recount deadline](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pennsylvania-state-department-says-stein-missed-recount-deadline)** > > Jill Stein has everything she needs to launch a presidential recount. She's got the cash, the grassroots fervor and the spotlight of an adoring media. But there's one thing she needs to overturn Trump's victory: a calendar. Do you guys even read the real news, or just jabber among yourselves here? ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/87 "2016-11-30T02:42:49Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I shall repeat the oft-forgotten concept: There is no such thing as the popular vote. It is meaningless in the voting system used in the US. All because the popular vote does not determine the winner, it does not mean it does not exist…and that it has no use as a metric of anything. That is sort of like saying that there is no such thing as the number of errors in a baseball game (or whatever other statistic you might want to think of) because that does not directly determine who wins or loses the game. And, apparently Trump thinks it’s a metric or something or he wouldn’t go to such ridiculous lengths to claim that he won the popular vote. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/88 "2016-11-30T04:51:30Z")
Stein should release her donor list when Trump releases his tax returns and not before. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/89 "2016-11-30T07:05:35Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What, if anything, is dishonest about seeking a recount and paying for it, in accordance with existing laws set up for exactly that purpose? > > And if you were referring to something else, what was it? It doesn’t have to do with the recount. It’s a response to the popular vote misdirection. It’s irrelevant and acting as if it were relevant is misleading. We’re talking about the American electorate here. No need to confuse them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/90 "2016-11-30T07:40:10Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It doesn’t have to do with the recount. It’s a response to the popular vote misdirection. It’s irrelevant and acting as if it were relevant is misleading. We’re talking about the American electorate here. No need to confuse them. All indications are the American electorate is plenty confused already, but in any case, if people are willing to donate to the effort, what’s the big deal? Best and worse case, nothing happens except Trump blusters, and he was blustering anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/91 "2016-11-30T12:39:50Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It doesn’t have to do with the recount. It’s a response to the popular vote misdirection. It’s irrelevant and acting as if it were relevant is misleading. We’re talking about the American electorate here. No need to confuse them. I don’t think so. Conservatives are getting all hot and bothered about it because TinyHands tells them to. They got their panties in a twist over Hillary’s emails because they were told to. Conservatives get mad at the direction of their leaders, they’re incapable of independent thought. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/92 "2016-11-30T13:50:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > If the Republicans send observers, have they also joined in? I know you’ll conveniently avoid responding, but I do like the question being on record. Sure, you could say that the Republicans join in if they observe. Keep in mind that the Hillary campaign has done a great deal more than just observe - > [@](#): > > First, since the day after the election we have had lawyers and data scientists and analysts combing over the results to spot anomalies that would suggest a hacked result. These have included analysts both from within the campaign and outside, with backgrounds in politics, technology and academia. > > Second, we have had numerous meetings and calls with various outside experts to hear their concerns and to discuss and review their data and findings. As a part of this, we have also shared out data and findings with them. Most of those discussions have remained private, while at least one has unfortunately been the subject of leaks. > > Third, we have attempted to systematically catalogue and investigate every theory that has been presented to us within our ability to do so. > > Fourth, we have examined the laws and practices as they pertain to recounts, contests and audits. > > Fifth, and most importantly, we have monitored and staffed the post-election canvasses — where voting machine tapes are compared to poll-books, provisional ballots are resolved, and all of the math is double checked from election night. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/93 "2016-11-30T15:10:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally Posted by_ **bordelond** : > > Seems that going forward, the door could be opened for “nuisance” recounts. Conservative candidates asking for recounts in California and New York, or liberal candidates asking for recounts in Texas and Alabama. > > I doubt it opens any door as it stands right now. Most states already have difficult financial/legal hurdles to force a recount on a not close election. That’s the most you can reasonably suggest in an open democracy. Maybe if Pennsylvania allows an extension of deadlines for no good reason then you might see a door opening on frivolous recount demands. Point taken. Donald Trump lost by ~27,000 votes in Nevada, and less than 3,000 in New Hampshire. It would be a fair play for him to ask for recounts in those two states, wouldn’t it? If a recount could get NV and NH turned, that gives Trump a 10 electoral-vote cushion in case some Stein/Clinton recounts flip other states. I just see it as kind of a arms race … “they” are asking for recounts, “we” have to as well. Because (1) who knows how their recounts will turn out, and (2) hey, “_never too much data, right_?” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/94 "2016-11-30T15:17:00Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Point taken. > > Donald Trump lost by ~27,000 votes in Nevada, and less than 3,000 in New Hampshire. It would be a fair play for him to ask for recounts in those two states, wouldn’t it? If a recount could get NV and NH turned, that gives Trump a 10 electoral-vote cushion in case some Stein/Clinton recounts flip other states. > > I just see it as kind of a arms race … “they” are asking for recounts, “we” have to as well. Because (1) who knows how their recounts will turn out, and (2) hey, “_never too much data, right_?” Whatever. I have no problem with TinyHands asking for recounts. Hell, recount Illinois if he wants to pay for it. I wouldn’t mind a 50 state recount so we could get tons of data on how well the vote was tabulated on election night. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/95 "2016-11-30T15:34:20Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Here’s a few ways that you can spot the differences: > > - The mature adult statement carefully assesses the situation. It explains the reasoning for participating in the recounts that the party did not ask for, does not resort to conspiracy theories (even though we have good evidence that a foreign power was trying to influence the election in a particular direction), notes the lack of “actionable evidence” of tampering that they have been able to find, and is careful to note that the outcome is unlikely to change. > > - The infantile tantrum makes broad sweeping claims of fraud with no evidence whatsoever to back them up. It claims that this fraud changed the outcome with no evidence whatsoever to back this up. It undermines confidence in the election and sets the stage for this person to really do destructive things in the future when he actually loses the election (i.e., the electoral vote). That’s a good way to look at things jshore … this should be a sticky are you a teacher? Did you write that? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/96 "2016-11-30T16:08:23Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Conservatives get mad at the direction of their leaders, they’re incapable of independent thought. I think the fact that Trump won the Republican Party’s nomination this year, over the strenuous objections of most conservative leaders, pretty much disproves this … theory. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/97 "2016-11-30T17:15:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m amused personally by how upset this is making Trump and some of his supporters. > > Cite: Trump’s tweets, this thread. I’m with this. The recounts are not going to change anything and Trump should just completely ignore the whole thing. But he’s Trump … ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/98 "2016-11-30T17:16:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t think so. Conservatives are getting all hot and bothered about it because TinyHands tells them to. They got their panties in a twist over Hillary’s emails because they were told to. Conservatives get mad at the direction of their leaders, they’re incapable of independent thought. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Whatever. I have no problem with TinyHands asking for recounts. Hell, recount Illinois if he wants to pay for it. I wouldn’t mind a 50 state recount so we could get tons of data on how well the vote was tabulated on election night. JugearS Obama’s reaction to the recount seems to be different than yours. \*WASHINGTON — The Obama administration said on Friday that despite Russian attempts to undermine the presidential election, it has concluded that the results “accurately reflect the will of the American people.” …In its statement, the administration said, “The Kremlin probably expected that publicity surrounding the disclosures that followed the Russian government-directed compromises of emails from U.S. persons and institutions, including from U.S. political organizations, would raise questions about the integrity of the election process that could have undermined the legitimacy of the president-elect.” …“ **Nevertheless, we stand behind our election results, which accurately reflect the will of the American people** ,” it added.\* [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/us/politics/hacking-russia-election-fears-barack-obama-donald-trump.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/us/politics/hacking-russia-election-fears-barack-obama-donald-trump.html?_r=0) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/99 "2016-11-30T17:34:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think the fact that Trump won the Republican Party’s nomination this year, over the strenuous objections of most conservative leaders, pretty much disproves this … theory. Not hardly. They went bananas over Benghazi because they were told to be outraged over it. They masturbated about the emails because they were told to be outraged over it. So they picked a Nazi who channeled their inner demons in spite of the more sane elements of their party, it doesn’t make them any less like gullible sheep. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/100 "2016-11-30T17:59:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > … You don’t seem to be interested in a civil discussion, so I think I’ll bow out of this … whatever this has become. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068.md?page=6)